Reactive long range target and the law

[tisme]

Been looking into making a thermite target. The chemicals,copper oxide and aluminium are easy to get, and its quite safe to mix, as long as you know some basic safety rules, however I'm not sure on how I stand legally. The dictionary definition of Thermite says it is not an explosive. Anyone on here any ideas as to whether its legal to make, I don't want to break any laws because I don't know.

[Shuggy]

The relevant law for pyrotechnics of this type is the Manufacture and Storage of Explosive Regulations 2005. You can find it easily online. There are various exemptions that cover reloading, fireworks etc. but I sincerely doubt that these will cover an improvised mixture. Strangely enough, pyrotechnics are often more dangerous than high explosives, since they are often sensitive to accidental initiation from heat or shock.

 

My basic advice is 'don't do it!'.

[tisme]

Thanks for the reply. I found the Manufacture and Storage of Explosive Regulations 2005 but not sure they are relevant as thermite is not defined as an explosive. Also thanks for the warning and advice both are heeded.

[Akeld]

Thermite is initiated by heat, are you not thinking of Tannerite which reacts to impact.

[Shuggy]

If you read the law you will see that pyrotechnics are indeed defined as an 'explosive substance'.

 

Tannerite is basically a mixture of ammonium nitrate and aluminium powder and in the UK would be classified as a high explosive, once mixed.

[gbal]

If you read the law you will see that pyrotechnics are indeed defined as an 'explosive substance'.

Tannerite is basically a mixture of ammonium nitrate and aluminium powder and in the UK would be classified as a high explosive, once mixed.

......and these are "EPCs"-"explosive precursor chemicals",not to be lightly messed with,as Shuggy advises. The products of their exothermic oxidation reaction,if provoked,can be dangerous-it's not just a "pop and puff". Think of molten metal in welding....

If you want more controlled fun,you can buy 'Firebird' reactive targets-even an air gun version-which do react to a rifle bullet with quite a loud bang,and large puff of smoke,without severe/overly dangerous side effects. £20 for 20,should be enough indulgence.

Don't fix onto large straw bales-yes,it's been done in US ,and proved expensive.

 

Of course,there is one rather good source of advice,your Firearms and Explosives Licensing Officer,who more or less does what it says on his tin.....though I can see why you don't phone him/her ... on a Saturday morning.....as a guidline,IEDs-improvised explosive devices- and 'recreation' don't sit comfortably.

[tisme]

Gbal that's a great idea however we only have three FEOs covering the whole of Kent at the moment (28,000 FAC and SGC holders). Getting to talk to one has proved to be very difficult.

 

Thermite will ignite with a CF or for a 22lr if its placed with a metal back to generate heat as the bullet sticks.

 

.

[Akeld]

Have you considered the UK legal version of reactive targets, those being water balloons

[Major Disorder]

Have you considered the UK legal version of reactive targets, those being water balloons

 

That's a bit boring though isn't it..... If you stick 10 Fire Bird targets back-to-back you do get quite a bang

[Shuggy]

Yes, looks fun doesn't it? I have made these things myself (in an official capacity I hasten to add!). But they are dangerous. I have a big scar on my arm to remind me of that. I had one colleague that lost an arm and an eye, another that lost part of her backside and another that lost his life. Bear in mind that these were highly trained explosives professionals, not amateurs. Every year the army bomb disposal people are kept busy by schoolboys and other enthusiasts that have maimed themselves with such things.

 

Stay legal and stay safe!

[gbal]

Have you considered the UK legal version of reactive targets, those being water balloons

...or balloons with a couple of tablespoons of talcum (basic baby,not Avon Luxury) -flour might do-borrow the kitchen pouring funnel.

[Will0]

Firebird on a can of hairspray...

[tisme]

...or balloons with a couple of tablespoons of talcum (basic baby,not Avon Luxury) -flour might do-borrow the kitchen pouring funnel.

 

Sound like a Julian Clary target

[gbal]

Firebird on a can of hairspray...

.......is the start of the slippery slope that leads to the scenarios that Shuggy describes....?

 

Mind you,the use of talcum needs some care-getting rid of christmas 'Lynx' might be an otherwise good idea,but if it's used,and there are some gorgeous young women 5 miles down wind of the burst,you may be set upon,with goodness knows what consequences.... :-)

[gbal]

Sound like a Julian Clary target

 

:-) "Oohh,you are awful,but.....

 

ok,try post 14....for the ambisextrous option...

[MJR]

Shooting firebirds and the like through magnified optics is foolish. Do you really want to see a magnified flash of high intensity light?

[Hatzi]

Shooting firebirds and the like through magnified optics is foolish. Do you really want to see a magnified flash of high intensity light?

Im glad it isnt just me who thinks that

[Murph]

Firebird on a gallon of petrol!

[tisme]

Firebird on a gallon of petrol!

Or a few Ferrocerium fire steels taped to a bottle of petrol and sun glasses.

[Gandy]

You guys are all mad , what wrong with a gong, it moves and makes a noise is that not reactive enough??

 

On an genuine note, I would be really careful from a legal perspective. Doing things like this, whilst a laugh, would likely get a very serious response from the Police, and I chose my words carefully when Joe Bloggs calls in reporting 'explosions' are going off, even in an isolated area.

 

Might be viewed very dimly by a licensing authority.

 

Sorry to be the party pooper.

[tisme]

Just had a phone call and found out that anything that burns without atmospheric oxygen is an explosive (would it burn in a vacuum) and dose come under the 1875 explosive act as well as the 2005 act. There is a small exemption for experimenting and testing so collages can explode small amounts, however you can't make any explosive to use, as a target or anything else.

 

Back to the gongs.

[Dorset Winmag]

Interesting.

 

So where do Firebird targets fall? Pyrotechnics? How many are you "allowed" before they fall in the explosive category?

 

Drinks cans filled with water work well! "Pop" and big fountain !!

 

DT

[tisme]

Interesting.

 

So where do Firebird targets fall? Pyrotechnics? How many are you "allowed" before they fall in the explosive category?

 

Drinks cans filled with water work well! "Pop" and big fountain !!

 

DT

They both wouldn't work in a vacuum and need atmospheric oxygen to burn or pop

[gbal]

They both wouldn't work in a vacuum and need atmospheric oxygen to burn or pop

Essential 'to burn' means there has to be oxygen-hence magnesium eg won't 'light' in a vacuum.

But mixtures like iron oxide and aluminium can react-the reaction is the aluminium taking the oxygen from the iron oxide,and heat etc is released....simply put! So if Firebirds have an metal oxide included....though I expect they have been officially 'cleared for responsible use' in a safe environment. Common sense,and no petrol eg.

[Shuggy]

Firebird targets are indeed pyrotechnics, i.e. a fuel/oxidiser mixture. But they are almost certainly sold under as 'fireworks', with the appropriate exemptions under the 2005 regulations. It is perfectly legal to buy fireworks; but it's absolutely not legal to make your own without the right lawful authority. So illegal, unnecessary and quite dangerous as well!