scopes-do we live in rip off britain?

[sako 75 .243]

Hay guys,

 

ive just ordered a Sightron SIII S 8-32X56 LRMOA from the states via a mate that lives in Montana .......cost $828.80 or £499.15.

 

Over here thay are £890.00....a saving of nearly £400.00......

 

I know shops need to make a profit but are thay being greedy or am I missing something?

[terryh]

Sako,

 

This is a recurring question but simply answered in that if you import any item legally and pay the relevant import duty and VAT etc. then prices from the US (which is a larger market and cost driven system) will be £ for $. I could break it down in more detail if you wish?

 

If you actually live in the US then you will find your cost to by 'things' are generally cheaper ( which is why you get the grass is greener appearance when holidaying there) but your overall cost of living, primarily due to their rather stoooopid legal system, is about the same.

 

Terry

[Jame5m]

Wait till you get your vat and handling fees invoice.....

[sako 75 .243]

Wait till you get your vat and handling fees invoice.....

 

The shop is sending it to my mate,then he is sending it to me as a present.

[Wsm]

Just out of curiosity does your mate offer a warranty if anything were to go wrong with the scope

[Laurie]

Well ..............

 

Add carriage and insurance costs US to UK to your $829.

 

Then add 20% VAT to the sum of the above, that is ~850 + 170 = 1,020.

 

Add import duty and customs handling / paperwork charges.

 

.................... and the 800 odd dollar scope doesn't look quite so cheap anymore.

 

 

Then there are a few other issues to consider before you start accusing our own people of ripping you off. Like, where did you mate in Montana find the scope and what conditions were it sold under? Like Sightron's own US website lists this model as having a retail price of $1,237.51. I know that there may be special offers etc available in a product's own country, but a full third discount over the manufacturer's own price is BIG - especially when this is a recent introductioin that sees strong demand. You sure your scope is new and comes with all the desirable warranty?

 

Another couple of points to think about. Riflescopes used to be half in half out of ITAR depending on type, model and reticle - ie you needed a US export licence if a large target type scope had a MILDOT or similar reticle ('military item') but not if it had a target fine crosshair or similar. I believe that all such scopes now need an export licence, but may be incorrect about this. If it does, your scope may be confiscated in transit, and even criminal proceedings started - the Feds take ITAR very seriously indeed. The UK importer has to pay for all the export licensing work and licence costs.

 

Finally, last but not least - what if your scope is faulty or develops one. If it does, Aim Field Sports won't support your warranty. You'll have to return it to your mate who'll have to go back to the US seller to get it sorted.

[sako 75 .243]

Just out of curiosity does your mate offer a warranty if anything were to go wrong with the scope

 

Hi wsm,

 

Are you saying that if I brought the scope from the states that a sightron dealer in this country will not honour the warranty?

[Avian]

 

The shop is sending it to my mate,then he is sending it to me as a present.

If it does not come in with an invoice then customs may well charge vat and import duty as there is I believe a maximum value for gifts, and customs can easily find teh retail price of this in the US.

[Laurie]

Expensive items like scopes all have a manufacturer's serial number on them - look on your scope body if / when it arrives. The importer keeps a record of every example he or she imports and sells to retailers. If a scope is produced for repair and its serial number isn't on the company's list, it's by definition a 'grey import' and normally won't be supported.

 

Why would any importer of any product operate an expensive warranty / repair / replacement service when he's had no benefit from importing and selling the product. That applies to any product you buy - bring a car into the UK as a personal import and you're in the same situation.

 

The Romans had a phrase for this 2,000 odd years ago - caveat emptor! If it looks too good an offer it usually is.

[MrCetrizine]

 

Are you saying that if I brought the scope from the states that a sightron dealer in this country will not honour the warranty?

They probably won't. I have thousands of pounds worth of camera lenses. I bought a few while traveling and found to my cost that they don't do international warranties. I'm a Canon professional services member which should give me preferential treatment but I was told by the official UK repair centre that I'd have to pay for my repair as the lens was bought in the US.

[Strangely Brown]

 

The shop is sending it to my mate,then he is sending it to me as a present.

 

So your evading duty and tax........?

[Jagged 77]

Postage, duty, VAT and handling charge still to add on but you'll probably end up better for it (depending on price paid plus exchange rates). If you wanted the mil version however ITAR restrictions could come into play - for those items you need someone with an import license otherwise you are not going to get anything. For example there would probably only be one Manners stock in the country right now if it wasn't for SYSS applying for the import license and bringing them in (assuming no one else picked it up) - Tom can't ship direct. Rip off Britain or just the size of the market in the respective countries plus Government restrictions on shipping?

 

NB, I shoot thousands of rounds a year including .338 and .50bmg, I'm just pragmatic about the situation and watch carefully for deals and opportunities.

[Wsm]

 

Hi wsm,

 

Are you saying that if I brought the scope from the states that a sightron dealer in this country will not honour the warranty?

If you'd brought the scope from a US dealer and then expected a UK based dealer to honour the warranty I'd expect the answer would be "send it back to where you brought it from and let them sort it out"

 

I'd also like to know if your mate would be willing to send stuff like mags,ammo and gun parts when all the UK shops have shut down because of everyone evading the duty in the UK (a duty which goes towards keeping the essential services of this country running by the way)?

[sako 75 .243]

jees ....wish I kept it to myself now.

[Hatzi]

 

Hi wsm,

 

Are you saying that if I brought the scope from the states that a sightron dealer in this country will not honour the warranty?

Duh, I'd have kept that to myself too

[Wsm]

Duh, I'd have kept that to myself too

A simple search of serial number and the dealer would know if it was a genuine UK import straight away

[sako 75 .243]

Just phoned my friend,as luck would have it being new years day he has not ordered it yet....thanks for your input... ill order one from aim field sports when thay have them back in stock.

[Laurie]

Postage, duty, VAT and handling charge still to add on but you'll probably end up better for it (depending on price paid plus exchange rates). If you wanted the mil version however ITAR restrictions could come into play - for those items you need someone with an import license otherwise you are not going to get anything. For example there would probably only be one Manners stock in the country right now if it wasn't for SYSS applying for the import license and bringing them in (assuming no one else picked it up) - Tom can't ship direct. Rip off Britain or just the size of the market in the respective countries plus Government restrictions on shipping?

 

NB, I shoot thousands of rounds a year including .338 and .50bmg, I'm just pragmatic about the situation and watch carefully for deals and opportunities.

 

 

Actually, the LRMO version of the SIII models is a crossover target / tactical model. (Great scopes - I have two 8-32 LRMOAs). It has tactical turrets (no screw-on cover type) and the reticle is a long-range quasi military model with 2-MOA hash marks on both vertical and horizontal reticle stadia for aiming-off and range estimation (hence the LRMOA name).

 

I'd reckon it's a high probability that the US state department lists this as a licence only export model under ITAR. The US AFTE and State Department definition of 'defense articles' has grown exponentially in recent years and now covers all brass, bullets, and stocks irrespective of sensible use. After all, Jihadist terrorists might be buying Shehane Bench Rerst stocks, 6PPC brass and 68gn hand made Bart's Bullets to use against US service personnel!

 

If we're talking 'rip-off', many reckon that the US adminstration is abusing the ITAR regs for income alone. For a description of ITAR see:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Traffic_in_Arms_Regulations

[gazzar15]

The prices we pay for American and a lot of European shooting goods ARE over the top whichever way you wish to dress it up or try to justify it.

There are instances too numerous to mention of overcharging in action.

1 12months ago in Guntrader TRG 42 in 338 Lapua list price new £2700

In current importers catalogue £3700 ????????????

I own a Cooper (lovely rifle) which I bought second hand here and due to some ham fisted smithing by a previous owner the bolt handle came adrift from the bolt body. Cheapest quote here for repair was £400 .

I took it over(with correct paperwork )sent it 1500 miles from my relatives place to Cooper Firearms where they fitted a new handle ,overhauled the bolt fitting a new extractor and bolt release catch and returned it to me. Including the duty I had to pay the postage to Coooper the repair,and the postage coming back to my relatives place.

Altogether my bolt travelled 10000 miles before it went back into my rifle.

The cost all in???

£170 The joke is definitely on us I'm afraid. Shooting is not a cheap sport in which to participate but there are a number of people in the trade who definitely do not help.That is without getting me going on the prices we pay for powders !!!!

[Jagged 77]

Actually, the LRMO version of the SIII models is a crossover target / tactical model. (Great scopes - I have two 8-32 LRMOAs). It has tactical turrets (no screw-on cover type) and the reticle is a long-range quasi military model with 2-MOA hash marks on both vertical and horizontal reticle stadia for aiming-off and range estimation (hence the LRMOA name).

 

I'd reckon it's a high probability that the US state department lists this as a licence only export model under ITAR. The US AFTE and State Department definition of 'defense articles' has grown exponentially in recent years and now covers all brass, bullets, and stocks irrespective of sensible use. After all, Jihadist terrorists might be buying Shehane Bench Rerst stocks, 6PPC brass and 68gn hand made Bart's Bullets to use against US service personnel!

 

If we're talking 'rip-off', many reckon that the US adminstration is abusing the ITAR regs for income alone. For a description of ITAR see:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Traffic_in_Arms_Regulations

You might well have a point Laurie regarding the application of ITAR classifications for added revenue, but the LRMOA is not covered by the restrictions, or at least wasn't when I last checked, the MIL dot might be a different issue. You should be just fine to import from a US dealer and have full warranty cover.

[bradders]

 

The shop is sending it to my mate,then he is sending it to me as a present.

How can you call it rip off Britain when you're trying to cheat the system?

 

As for "present", do you really believe customs are that naive?

Wait till they ask for proof it is a present

[Avian]

 

Hi wsm,

 

Are you saying that if I brought the scope from the states that a sightron dealer in this country will not honour the warranty?

 

As with a lot of products, it would depend if it had an international Warrantee.

 

Some products do some do not.

[Avian]

They probably won't. I have thousands of pounds worth of camera lenses. I bought a few while traveling and found to my cost that they don't do international warranties. I'm a Canon professional services member which should give me preferential treatment but I was told by the official UK repair centre that I'd have to pay for my repair as the lens was bought in the US.

 

I work in Dubai and buy my Binos and camera lenses here. I always make sure I get international warrantees with them.

[Wsm]

I can assure you that when a dealer has a punter come into his shop clutching a brand new toy purchased elsewhere with the owner telling all and sundry how much he'd saved although the afore mentioned new toy had somehow broken and the owner now expected the shop owner to "sort it out" for him it doesn't come high on the shop owners list of priorities

And thats even between some UK dealers let alone grey imported items

[bradders]

All dealers in the UK (myself included) should cease from making any profit whatsoever and instead import stuff and pass it on to the whining punters just to keep them happy and stop them crapping on about "Rip Off Britain"