Sako Quad Range. 17HMR

[wabbit evaporator]

I am having a bit of a cabinet reshuffle.......

 

With a 6mm on the way for informal target shooting and vermin exploding I am looking for something to fill the gap between my air rifle/.22 and the 6mm. I've been really tempted by 17 Rem (used to own one), .204, 17H, etc. but keep coming back to the idea of HMR. I can get cheap (ish) factory ammo and it's pretty good out to 150 yards. Whilst I know the calibre is excellent Elephant medicine I have no need to shoot foxes with it so that's not a consideration.

 

Firstly, would appreciate any thoughts from the great and the good on here re. any other possibilities (I can't see myself do high volume reloading....) and secondly has anyone picked up one of these rifles? Just like the thought of something a bit different and it really irritates me that manufacturers seem to build rimfires with short/child like stock dimensions. Yes, I know its a quad and has a plastic bolt handle etc. but any thoughts would be really appreciated.

 

Cheers.

[6.5shooter]

I used to have two. Build quality was good I thought.

Accuracy hovered around an inch at 100 yards.

Though I font own any now as the consistency of the accuracy didnt tickle me.

[gbal]

I am having a bit of a cabinet reshuffle.......

 

With a 6mm on the way for informal target shooting and vermin exploding I am looking for something to fill the gap between my air rifle/.22 and the 6mm. I've been really tempted by 17 Rem (used to own one), .204, 17H, etc. but keep coming back to the idea of HMR. I can get cheap (ish) factory ammo and it's pretty good out to 150 yards. Whilst I know the calibre is excellent Elephant medicine I have no need to shoot foxes with it so that's not a consideration.

 

Firstly, would appreciate any thoughts from the great and the good on here re. any other possibilities (I can't see myself do high volume reloading....) and secondly has anyone picked up one of these rifles? Just like the thought of something a bit different and it really irritates me that manufacturers seem to build rimfires with short/child like stock dimensions. Yes, I know its a quad and has a plastic bolt handle etc. but any thoughts would be really appreciated.

 

Cheers.

This might just be somewhere the 17 Hornet fits? It doesn't do the things you don't want to do! But up to 175 and up to bunnies,factory ammo,it is worth considering.Not in a quad of course.Not a 17rem either,of course!!

[wabbit evaporator]

Cheers for the replies.

 

I had a quad too, really liked it but wasn't a huge fan of the plastic bolt handle, everything else I thought was excellent. Its the range model I am interested in this time, like the look of the stock.

 

I love the look of the hornet but this is going to get dragged out lamping and have 100 or so rounds put through it a night, not sure that's particularly bright with ammo at circa £1/round... and the thought of doing that much reloading brings me out in a rash (only just learnt how to reload at all!). Also, who builds rifles in the calibre?

 

Again, .17 Rem is an awesome piece of kit but it will extend my range to somewhere around the 350/400 mark at which point I'll be using the very shiny new 6mm that's on its way.

 

Realise i've asked for advice and am now disputing it all......sorry!

[DL.]

I can almost guarantee that gunmark will price the Quad Range at a ridiculously high level.

 

They have the Quad Varmints RRP at £960, so what's the bets on the pricing for the Range model when it becomes available?

 

I'm guessing £1390-£1400!

[David Hancock]

Nooooooooooooooooo !!!

 

Look at the Weihrauch HW66 Jagd-Match if you want a lovely rifle in .17HMR. Half the price of the Sako Quad

[wabbit evaporator]

I can almost guarantee that gunmark will price the Quad Range at a ridiculously high level.

 

They have the Quad Varmints RRP at £960, so what's the bets on the pricing for the Range model when it becomes available?

 

I'm guessing £1390-£1400!

McAvoy have them for £930 which whilst a lot for a rimfire I didn't think was too crazy.......

[DL.]

To be honest, if I were looking at spending a grand again on a rimfire, I'd be checking out the new straight pull anschutz 1727.

[wabbit evaporator]

To be honest, if I were looking at spending a grand again on a rimfire, I'd be checking out the new straight pull anschutz 1727.

 

 

Fair point and would love to have a look at one but getting hold of them seems to be impossible and I think price is going to be significantly more than £1000.

[kent]

Now you cant realistically pick up 6mm BR factory, so I am guessing your into re-loading. Go .22 Hornet I replaced my HMR with one about 3 yrs ago and never looked back. Prior to crazy bullet prices appearing I was re-loading it for about equivalent to factory hmr fodder, yet shooting half the wind and keeping 1/2 moa at 200 yds. Its not hard to load hornet in volume as Hogdens LilGun being a .410 shotgun powder throws real well and at only 10-13 grns its easy to moderate and should last almost indefinitely.

Sure there are bigger and better things but then you are approaching the performance of your other guns, I feel its a perfect inbetweeny from the .22 lr and 6mm. The 17 version seems to be fixing an issue that isn't there, any straight thinking person wouldn't put it up against a .223 rem and those I know who have used the .22 and .17 seem to all say buy a .22 if fox is important.

The downside is the rimmed case and its unfailing desire to lock-over in the mag. Buying again I should spend more and get a custom single shot, fully moderated on a falling block type or similar. After all one shot is all it takes and brass is easier to collect that way at night.

[Andrew]

Now you cant realistically pick up 6mm BR factory, so I am guessing your into re-loading. Go .22 Hornet I replaced my HMR with one about 3 yrs ago and never looked back. Prior to crazy bullet prices appearing I was re-loading it for about equivalent to factory hmr fodder, yet shooting half the wind and keeping 1/2 moa at 200 yds. Its not hard to load hornet in volume as Hogdens LilGun being a .410 shotgun powder throws real well and at only 10-13 grns its easy to moderate and should last almost indefinitely.

Sure there are bigger and better things but then you are approaching the performance of your other guns, I feel its a perfect inbetweeny from the .22 lr and 6mm. The 17 version seems to be fixing an issue that isn't there, any straight thinking person wouldn't put it up against a .223 rem and those I know who have used the .22 and .17 seem to all say buy a .22 if fox is important.

The downside is the rimmed case and its unfailing desire to lock-over in the mag. Buying again I should spend more and get a custom single shot, fully moderated on a falling block type or similar. After all one shot is all it takes and brass is easier to collect that way at night.

While I agree that the Hornet is a good choice, I disagree with the rimmed case disclaimer. I shoot a CZ and have never had an issue with the rims locking over. Darned hard to do in almost every bolt action .22 Hornet I've owned: Anschutz,Ruger and CZ. I have owned many single shot Hornets from Savage hammer guns to very fine customs on Winchester Hi Wall and Adyt System actions. I wouldn't trade my CZ to get any or all of them back. CZ's are the best Hornets I shot: Kind on brass and exceptionally accurate. Ruger was the worst Hornet I have ever owned. (perhaps the worst new factory rifle I have owned...)

 

That aside, there is something to be said for the 17 Ackley Hornet. My buddy comes out each summer with a custom Browning Micro Medallion A-bolt hunter chambered for 17AH and it is mean medicine on prairiedogs. Doesn't eat much, powder wise, and has good field preformance. Additionally, the silliness of bullet shortatges doesn't seem to have affected the sub-caliber shooters too much, tho stocks of light .224 bullets never did hit zero here.~Andrew

[kent]

While I agree that the Hornet is a good choice, I disagree with the rimmed case disclaimer. I shoot a CZ and have never had an issue with the rims locking over. Darned hard to do in almost every bolt action .22 Hornet I've owned: Anschutz,Ruger and CZ. I have owned many single shot Hornets from Savage hammer guns to very fine customs on Winchester Hi Wall and Adyt System actions. I wouldn't trade my CZ to get any or all of them back. CZ's are the best Hornets I shot: Kind on brass and exceptionally accurate. Ruger was the worst Hornet I have ever owned. (perhaps the worst new factory rifle I have owned...)

 

That aside, there is something to be said for the 17 Ackley Hornet. My buddy comes out each summer with a custom Browning Micro Medallion A-bolt hunter chambered for 17AH and it is mean medicine on prairiedogs. Doesn't eat much, powder wise, and has good field preformance. Additionally, the silliness of bullet shortatges doesn't seem to have affected the sub-caliber shooters too much, tho stocks of light .224 bullets never did hit zero here.~Andrew

I think the .17 is more a niche for the American market idealy suited to the suggested purpose. I also rate the CZ in all other regards but those lock overs have occurred with two brand new mags thus far and it normal for it to occur at the worst possible times (like at night). been meaning to try different brass but cant get any at present

[jeffo223]

I've got a sako quad in 17hmr flavour and absolutely love it! I change the bolt handle to a metal one and fitted a thumbhole custom joe West stock. It is incredibly accurate, at carlton moor under ground range I shot a five shot one hole group. Out in the field I have no issues at 170 yards and have used it out to 200 yards on crows just had to learn the drop on my scope. Can't recommend a sako quad enough.

 

Paul

[Andrew]

I think the .17 is more a niche for the American market idealy suited to the suggested purpose. I also rate the CZ in all other regards but those lock overs have occurred with two brand new mags thus far and it normal for it to occur at the worst possible times (like at night). been meaning to try different brass but cant get any at present

Strange! I can't imagine it! I have several CZ magazines and never had a hitch! I stand corrected! All my loads are .010" under magazine length: They couldn't shift if they wanted to!

 

Mind you, I wouldn't get the 17 Hornady. I'd get a 17 Ackley IMP Hornet and form my brass. Too many reports of sour brass on the Hornady offering. If the 17 is for American markets, what is the 17HMR for? Having hunted with the 17 Mach IV (Fireball) I can tell you it will pile coyotes at 200 yards. Can't imagine it woudn't handle a fox but I don't know your game that well.~Andrew

[kent]

Strange! I can't imagine it! I have several CZ magazines and never had a hitch! I stand corrected! All my loads are .010" under magazine length: They couldn't shift if they wanted to!

 

Mind you, I wouldn't get the 17 Hornady. I'd get a 17 Ackley IMP Hornet and form my brass. Too many reports of sour brass on the Hornady offering. If the 17 is for American markets, what is the 17HMR for? Having hunted with the 17 Mach IV (Fireball) I can tell you it will pile coyotes at 200 yards. Can't imagine it woudn't handle a fox but I don't know your game that well.~Andrew

IMO the hmr is not a good choice for most uk users, short of rabbits between 80-160 ish were it betters the ,22 lr on drop. There are stacks of disillusioned HMR owners in the UK, especially now ammo seems to be falling off a cliff quality wise. My findings showed it very unreliable on crows as regards the terminals and I shouldn't point one at a fox over the .22lr- purely because you never know for sure what that little bullet decides its going to do until it does it! I have seen u-tube clips of the .17 Hornet in action on coyotes and from what I witnessed British shooters generally would not accept what I witnessed as clean nor might they publish such results on line. I am going off what I am told by persons who have owned both .22 and .17 hornet though so pure second hand on the foxes bit, I am sure it will spoil their day. There is no question though that the .22 with a bullet over twice the weight and once a favoured Roe rifle before the deer act will get the job done. At + 2 moa at 200 yds from a 130 zero it fills a gap nicely between the .22 rf and the larger 6mm calibres, the extra trajectory of the .17 becomes mute against wind and terminals much past there, especially against bringing a bigger gun

[Shootist]

I still like my CZ HMR in spite of the ammo quality issues. The basic benefit is the almost certain lack of ricochet hazard. Accurate enough if you moderate your range expectations, and if you get a good batch of ammo, then it's out to 120 yards no problem. If you are looking for a working tool, and don't need to brag about how expensive it was, then the CZ HMR is the way to go. Sure, it has it's downsides, but point me to a rifle that doesn't.

[Andrew]

IMO the hmr is not a good choice for most uk users, short of rabbits between 80-160 ish were it betters the ,22 lr on drop. There are stacks of disillusioned HMR owners in the UK, especially now ammo seems to be falling off a cliff quality wise. My findings showed it very unreliable on crows as regards the terminals and I shouldn't point one at a fox over the .22lr- purely because you never know for sure what that little bullet decides its going to do until it does it! I have seen u-tube clips of the .17 Hornet in action on coyotes and from what I witnessed British shooters generally would not accept what I witnessed as clean nor might they publish such results on line. I am going off what I am told by persons who have owned both .22 and .17 hornet though so pure second hand on the foxes bit, I am sure it will spoil their day. There is no question though that the .22 with a bullet over twice the weight and once a favoured Roe rifle before the deer act will get the job done. At + 2 moa at 200 yds from a 130 zero it fills a gap nicely between the .22 rf and the larger 6mm calibres, the extra trajectory of the .17 becomes mute against wind and terminals much past there, especially against bringing a bigger gun

I agree with you on the HMR. I have three of them and they never get used. I am also not a huge fan of the 17 calibers having been there and done that, but, I have shot the 17 Ackley H at 200 - 250 at prairiedogs and it worked fine. But, again, vermin that don't take a huge amount of killing. I was just thinking that since the OP listed 17HMR, it would be a good opportunity to step up and do away with the ammo problems the HMR is having.

 

Hornet is the better choice, we agree.~Andrew

[kent]

I still like my CZ HMR in spite of the ammo quality issues. The basic benefit is the almost certain lack of ricochet hazard. Accurate enough if you moderate your range expectations, and if you get a good batch of ammo, then it's out to 120 yards no problem. If you are looking for a working tool, and don't need to brag about how expensive it was, then the CZ HMR is the way to go. Sure, it has it's downsides, but point me to a rifle that doesn't.

 

No,no,no! nothing is certain in terms or ricochet. The HMR can and will and has for me many times, account for it and allow for it or maybe live to regret it. Indeed I recon I can produce them more or less to order in Sedge grass

[kent]

I still like my CZ HMR in spite of the ammo quality issues. The basic benefit is the almost certain lack of ricochet hazard. Accurate enough if you moderate your range expectations, and if you get a good batch of ammo, then it's out to 120 yards no problem. If you are looking for a working tool, and don't need to brag about how expensive it was, then the CZ HMR is the way to go. Sure, it has it's downsides, but point me to a rifle that doesn't.

 

No,no,no! nothing is certain in terms or ricochet. The HMR can and will and has for me many times, account for it and allow for it or maybe live to regret it. Indeed I recon I can produce them more or less to order in Sedge grass

 

I agree with you on the HMR. I have three of them and they never get used. I am also not a huge fan of the 17 calibers having been there and done that, but, I have shot the 17 Ackley H at 200 - 250 at prairiedogs and it worked fine. But, again, vermin that don't take a huge amount of killing. I was just thinking that since the OP listed 17HMR, it would be a good opportunity to step up and do away with the ammo problems the HMR is having.

 

Hornet is the better choice, we agree.~Andrew

 

Yes if I was blasting up dozens of Pdogs it might be a top choice, hence the American niche talk. 10 -13 grns of powder with blistering speed- whats not to like for that game.

[Sausage Warrior]

"Whilst I know the calibre is excellent Elephant medicine I have no need to shoot foxes with it so that's not a consideration."

 

I don't have a quad, but I do have a CZ style .22lr, a CZ Silhouette .17HMR and a Tikka T3 .22-250.

 

For working at known ranges the LR rocks! For blatting foxes the 22-250 is supreme. For everything else - the hummer wins. I use Hornady or Federal ammo. they are equally consistent.

In the dark I have trouble judging distance so the LR is problematic, if I hit anything smaller than a fox with the CF nothing is left. I can virtually guarantee to take a rabbit in the head with the HMR and keep th emeat (even a chest shot doesn't spoil much.

So leaving the actual badge aside, the round is a cracker! IMHO.

[kent]

"Whilst I know the calibre is excellent Elephant medicine I have no need to shoot foxes with it so that's not a consideration."

 

I don't have a quad, but I do have a CZ style .22lr, a CZ Silhouette .17HMR and a Tikka T3 .22-250.

 

For working at known ranges the LR rocks! For blatting foxes the 22-250 is supreme. For everything else - the hummer wins. I use Hornady or Federal ammo. they are equally consistent.

In the dark I have trouble judging distance so the LR is problematic, if I hit anything smaller than a fox with the CF nothing is left. I can virtually guarantee to take a rabbit in the head with the HMR and keep th emeat (even a chest shot doesn't spoil much.

So leaving the actual badge aside, the round is a cracker! IMHO.

 

You can shoot rabbits in the head with a .22 Hornet even at short range and not waste any meat, Hares can be chest shot if you must. This is with higher power handloads running a 45 grn Bullet at 2900 fps. Factory 45's genrally run about 2500-2700. Your comments about nothing being left if hit with a CF are but an assumption therefore. I have even shot rabbits facing me in the forehead while squatting or feeding, the scull explodes but the front legs and shoulders are fine. If I am only going to shoot a few rabbits for the pot or if its windy then its my gun of choice these days, although I don't use one I am sure a mild loaded .222 rem or anything under that will do equally good a job

[Sausage Warrior]

 

You can shoot rabbits in the head with a .22 Hornet even at short range and not waste any meat, Hares can be chest shot if you must. This is with higher power handloads running a 45 grn Bullet at 2900 fps. Factory 45's genrally run about 2500-2700. Your comments about nothing being left if hit with a CF are but an assumption therefore. I have even shot rabbits facing me in the forehead while squatting or feeding, the scull explodes but the front legs and shoulders are fine. If I am only going to shoot a few rabbits for the pot or if its windy then its my gun of choice these days, although I don't use one I am sure a mild loaded .222 rem or anything under that will do equally good a job

 

Sigh - Kent you really know how to push buttons don't you.

I state using a .22-250 CF. Shoot a rabbit with a 50g Hornady ballistic tip going at 3880 fps and see how much is left. So my comments are not "but an assumption".

I never mentioned hares.

However I'm sure you will have an extremely well informed and rounded come-back. Maybe you should knock up a 'bible' to be stickied, with all your superior knowledge to save us having these discussions where someone can ask for others opinions and expect others opinions rather than a diatribe from you extolling your own superior knowledge and belittling every other contributor's opinion.

[gbal]

Sigh - Kent you really know how to push buttons don't you.

I state using a .22-250 CF. Shoot a rabbit with a 50g Hornady ballistic tip going at 3880 fps and see how much is left. So my comments are not "but an assumption".

I never mentioned hares.

However I'm sure you will have an extremely well informed and rounded come-back. Maybe you should knock up a 'bible' to be stickied, with all your superior knowledge to save us having these discussions where someone can ask for others opinions and expect others opinions rather than a diatribe from you extolling your own superior knowledge and belittling every other contributor's opinion.

So much would be avoided if members read with a little more care what each other actually said !

There is indeed a big difference between 'a/my 22/250 does a lot of meat damage',and 'any 22 CF does a lot of meat damage'!!

 

There is nonetheless an issue about just where the 17HMR fits in-it,like all rfs is no fox round-with good ammunition and benign conditions,it is a 150 yard rabbit round,perhaps,but certainly no better than the Hornet,in it's modern configurations(rifles and loadings).The 200+/- 50 yards is much better filled by the 222/223 class for rabbit,and these are fox capable.The 22/250 will stretch the 22cf a bit further.

The case for the Hornet is essentially quietness and economy.

Some of the issues of meat damage are increased with the 'wrong' bullet choice-the 222 and 17 (and 223) are well capable of taking heart region shot rabbits without excessive damage,for your own use.

Gbal

[kent]

"Whilst I know the calibre is excellent Elephant medicine I have no need to shoot foxes with it so that's not a consideration."

 

I don't have a quad, but I do have a CZ style .22lr, a CZ Silhouette .17HMR and a Tikka T3 .22-250.

 

For working at known ranges the LR rocks! For blatting foxes the 22-250 is supreme. For everything else - the hummer wins. I use Hornady or Federal ammo. they are equally consistent.

In the dark I have trouble judging distance so the LR is problematic, if I hit anything smaller than a fox with the CF nothing is left. I can virtually guarantee to take a rabbit in the head with the HMR and keep th emeat (even a chest shot doesn't spoil much.

So leaving the actual badge aside, the round is a cracker! IMHO.

 

I politely suggest you re-read the exact wording of your actual post and the use of full stops and paragraphs

[Sausage Warrior]

I politely suggest you re-read the exact wording of your actual post and the use of full stops and paragraphs

 

Bwahahahaha, that's your best come back?

Why not go lurk on one of the other forums for grammatically correct postings.

This is about a guy asking for opinions about a rifle/caliber, not English lessons. Rant away Kent, the soap box is yours. You 'win' - I duck out.