Random wildcat question

[dannywayoflife]

I was sat at work today(bored as usual!) and my mind starte spending money I do not have by coming up with wildcat calibres I'd like to build!

And I wondered has anyone ever wildcatted the 6.5x55AI By necking it up to 7mm? Thought it might be a useful calibre!?

[Chris-NZ]

You'd then have a 7x57AI with orphan case head diam

[The Gun Pimp]

I was sat at work today(bored as usual!) and my mind starte spending money I do not have by coming up with wildcat calibres I'd like to build!

And I wondered has anyone ever wildcatted the 6.5x55AI By necking it up to 7mm? Thought it might be a useful calibre!?

 

For what purpose Danny? A lot of work (dies etc) for little if any reward - oh cheap brass - forgot that one! And let's not forget that odd case head dia. as NZ Chris points out.

[dannywayoflife]

99% of my shooting is target. Was just one of those passing thoughts:)

[Tank]

99% of my shooting is target. Was just one of those passing thoughts:)

 

What? You mean you have time to think at work? You told me you were busy!

[Chris-NZ]

I was dreaming the other day about a unique small calibre wildcat.

 

Thought I'd start with the .308 Lapua (small primer) case for gentle ignition and going along the lines of those fashionable WSMs/etc, I'd shorten it down to give the preferred proportions. Should give minimal case stretch so need little trimming. Something that's not overbore and good for varmints, maybe .224 cal. Oh, and I want a decent neck length to be nicer to the throat.

 

..so in fact I reinvented the 6BR :lol:

 

(ain't much left that hasn't already been done, much of it pointless..)

[gbal]

I was dreaming the other day about a unique small calibre wildcat.

 

Thought I'd start with the .308 Lapua (small primer) case for gentle ignition and going along the lines of those fashionable WSMs/etc, I'd shorten it down to give the preferred proportions. Should give minimal case stretch so need little trimming. Something that's not overbore and good for varmints, maybe .224 cal. Oh, and I want a decent neck length to be nicer to the throat.

 

..so in fact I reinvented the 6BR :lol:

 

(ain't much left that hasn't already been done, much of it pointless..)

 

And Frank Barnes was there even earlier with the 308x1 1/2 (aka 30BR).

Still,it's fun sometimes,and very occasionally something radical and really worthwhile emerges (aka PPC).

 

george

[Davy]

(ain't much left that hasn't already been done, much of it pointless..)

That is about right, someone has invariably tried it all before and often 40+ years ago.

 

I am looking at a 6x55 right now, again because I fancy something a bit different...

[That bald headed Geordie]

I was bored this morning after my tea and toast. So I thought that I would like 'something completely different' so what about a .22 cal diameter bullet in a .338 Lap case.

Any ideas of what powder to use and should I seat my bullets touching or perhaps 10 to 20 thou off the lands. And for the ballistically experienced out there, what velocities could be achieved and perhaps also barrel life! Also does anyone make dies to suit this new and exciting calibre that I have invented which I shall call the .22 Geordieboy.

I await with eager anticipation from the equally bored this morning.

Cheers.

Addendum - would this round be better at short range or perhaps 1000yd benchrest or f class, or maybe good for both.

[Gunsgobang88]

I was bored this morning after my tea and toast. So I thought that I would like 'something completely different' so what about a .22 cal diameter bullet in a .338 Lap case.

Any ideas of what powder to use and should I seat my bullets touching or perhaps 10 to 20 thou off the lands. And for the ballistically experienced out there, what velocities could be achieved and perhaps also barrel life! Also does anyone make dies to suit this new and exciting calibre that I have invented which I shall call the .22 Geordieboy.

I await with eager anticipation from the equally bored this morning.

Cheers.

Addendum - would this round be better at short range or perhaps 1000yd benchrest or f class, or maybe good for both.

Hi,

 

Mmm, .22 on a .338 Lapua! I've invented a name for the projectile, I'll call it plasma!

 

On a (slightly) more serious note, years ago Bob Forker (an American gun journalist) did a .22 on a .300 Weatherby case. He called it the .22 Eargesplittenloudenboomer, velocity over 5000 fps and a barrel life of around 100 rounds,

 

Alan

[Chris-NZ]

That is the ultimate working definition of throat wash

 

I get a pic of a ridiculous wildcat sitting in my deceased gunsmith's workshop- similar..

[Tank]

Hi,

 

Mmm, .22 on a .338 Lapua! I've invented a name for the projectile, I'll call it plasma!

 

On a (slightly) more serious note, years ago Bob Forker (an American gun journalist) did a .22 on a .300 Weatherby case. He called it the .22 Eargesplittenloudenboomer, velocity over 5000 fps and a barrel life of around 100 rounds,

 

Alan

 

, no wonder it never got off the gound with s name like that.Barrel life of 100 rounds hmmmm.........i don't think i'd want one!

[Laurie]

And Frank Barnes was there even earlier with the 308x1 1/2 (aka 30BR).

Still,it's fun sometimes,and very occasionally something radical and really worthwhile emerges (aka PPC).

 

george

 

Norman Clark showed me a 308X1.5" that he built on a small-ring military Mauser action many years back as an experiment to see if it would work as a dual purpose fox and deer rifle - which it did very well he says, managing to achieve the 1,700 ft/lb ME to be deer legal in England. It was a very neat and handy little sporter. It's the only genuine 308X1.5" I've ever seen, or am likely to see I should think. Barnes saw it as a military assault rifle number of course, but having rejected the British government's fully and expensively developed 7X49mm (very similar to the later 7mm BR but with a shallower shoulderr angle and more case taper for feed in automatic weapons) in the 1947-52 period when a new NATO cartridge was being fought over, why would the US Army ever adopt a privately developed wildcat?

 

so what about a .22 cal diameter bullet in a .338 Lap case.

Any ideas of what powder to use and should I seat my bullets touching or perhaps 10 to 20 thou off the lands. And for the ballistically experienced out there, what velocities could be achieved and perhaps also barrel life! Also does anyone make dies to suit this new and exciting calibre that I have invented which I shall call the .22 Geordieboy. [That bald headed Geordie]

 

Surely, you'd fuel it on Newcastle Brown Ale, Les? Joking apart, the US firearms engineer and ballistics expert Mic McPherson + somebody else I can't remember built something very similar many moons ago as a joke at the expense of those in the USA who kept suggesting ever more over bore capacity magnums and wildcats. The duo called it the .22 Loudenfartenboomer or something like that and actually tested it bolted down in a rest fired remotely using a piece of string attached to the trigger. Anyway, it burned the throat out in I think it was 7 rounds and the erosion was so serious and rough that pressures went through the roof causing catastrophic case failure. After this was written up and published as a salutary warning, McPherson was astonished as to how many people subsequently took it seriously and wanted the reamer print number and loads data! Years after the event people were still contacting him about it.

[gbal]

Norman Clark showed me a 308X1.5" that he built on a small-ring military Mauser action many years back as an experiment to see if it would work as a dual purpose fox and deer rifle - which it did very well he says, managing to achieve the 1,700 ft/lb ME to be deer legal in England. It was a very neat and handy little sporter. It's the only genuine 308X1.5" I've ever seen, or am likely to see I should think. Barnes saw it as a military assault rifle number of course, but having rejected the British government's fully and expensively developed 7X49mm (very similar to the later 7mm BR but with a shallower shoulderr angle and more case taper for feed in automatic weapons) in the 1947-52 period when a new NATO cartridge was being fought over, why would the US Army ever adopt a privately developed wildcat?

 

 

 

Surely, you'd fuel it on Newcastle Brown Ale, Les? Joking apart, the US firearms engineer and ballistics expert Mic McPherson + somebody else I can't remember built something very similar many moons ago as a joke at the expense of those in the USA who kept suggesting ever more over bore capacity magnums and wildcats. The duo called it the .22 Loudenfartenboomer or something like that and actually tested it bolted down in a rest fired remotely using a piece of string attached to the trigger. Anyway, it burned the throat out in I think it was 7 rounds and the erosion was so serious and rough that pressures went through the roof causing catastrophic case failure. After this was written up and published as a salutary warning, McPherson was astonished as to how many people subsequently took it seriously and wanted the reamer print number and loads data! Years after the event people were still contacting him about it.

 

The 308x1.5 Barnes is nice-I have one smithed by the same Norman Clark.It's a delight to shoot out to about 600 yards,125 g bullets usually.Mine has quite a long heavy barrel,which someday I'll shorten to improve balance-it isn't set up as a carry rifle.It is very very close to 30BR case specs-and the cartridge did get some use in contender pistols for silhouette,I think.But who would want such as a military item (in kurz,million upon millions of soviets!

 

Meanwhile,the S 50 is perhaps the definitive cutting edge project (50 browning necked down to take standard singer sewing machine needle)-snags are filling the case granule by granule,with tweezers; velocity is estimated only,as chrono spacers were unable to register a reading even 485 yards apart;barrel life is expected to be 1 and a half rounds rounds.

 

george

[That bald headed Geordie]

 

Meanwhile,the S 50 is perhaps the definitive cutting edge project (50 browning necked down to take standard singer sewing machine needle)-snags are filling the case granule by granule,with tweezers; velocity is estimated only,as chrono spacers were unable to register a reading even 485 yards apart;barrel life is expected to be 1 and a half rounds rounds.

 

george

 

The S50 project sounds like something I would like to shoot. However as always there are questions regarding availability of projectiles.

And as an f classer/benchrest shooter, I always like to trim and point my meplats, so would you think that the needles would benefit from trimming and pointing?

I believe that they would and would reduce elevation spread at 1000yds! More importantly is to order a few barrels to keep me shooting throughout the year.

The only drawback as far as I can see on a practical level, is that when I strike the target at long range the target markers may have some difficulty in finding the 'bullet' hole to mark the impact point. But still might be worth spending money on this project. Watch this space!

[gbal]

The S50 project sounds like something I would like to shoot. However as always there are questions regarding availability of projectiles.

And as an f classer/benchrest shooter, I always like to trim and point my meplats, so would you think that the needles would benefit from trimming and pointing?

I believe that they would and would reduce elevation spread at 1000yds! More importantly is to order a few barrels to keep me shooting throughout the year.

The only drawback as far as I can see on a practical level, is that when I strike the target at long range the target markers may have some difficulty in finding the 'bullet' hole to mark the impact point. But still might be worth spending money on this project. Watch this space!

 

Good points,so to speak.We would suggest running the needles on the singer-or japanese equivalent-machine for about 100-200 stitches,through the finest silk underwear you can access,which will hone any imperfections (in the needles).

The S50 was not envisaged as a target round,but you do raise some issues. If you wish to shoot it at very short ranges like 1000 yards,the best ballistic information from the NASA Houston space computors is that elevation rise at 1000 yards will be 2.4 mm,from 100 zero,-not drop,note- and this will remain above line of sight for some considerable distance,(across the Mojave Desert in varmint testing)so as not to be a consideration for target ranges.

Targets could be the birchwood casey type splatter (bird sh*t) type,to increase visibility.One suggestion was that competitions could be decided by the neatness of the patterns of the holes-cross stitch,double denim etc,rather in the spirit of symetrical grouping.The measurement technology exists from competitive stiching disciplines. It would not be too difficult to adapt for larger calibre-any of the standard knitting needles would do,and be in the 22/6mm and above-we would suggest conventional scoring here-perhps G class (G for Grannie).

Barrels have been a challenge,and may have limited widespread use.However,I think an answer may be at hand,from a fortuitous source.Following the minimum charge per unit of alcohol,the Calidonia Independence Party's manifesto pledge to supply free ,on tap whisky to every voter,will have to be scrapped.This means something in excess of 160,000 miles of pipeline is redundant stock,and this is of bore size .05 mm,(they didnae promise whisky galore!),which is exactly singer size 3,so there is a pretty fair supply of barrels right there.There will be some 'match' grade malt pipe too.

Cheers,

George

[gbal]

Hi,

 

Mmm, .22 on a .338 Lapua! I've invented a name for the projectile, I'll call it plasma!

 

On a (slightly) more serious note, years ago Bob Forker (an American gun journalist) did a .22 on a .300 Weatherby case. He called it the .22 Eargesplittenloudenboomer, velocity over 5000 fps and a barrel life of around 100 rounds,

 

Alan

 

We might dredge the mississippi for the (Hollywood) bowie knife blade,or search the los alamos vicinity,when the current supplies of unobtainium run out!

[Swamp Donkey]

The splittenboomer jobbie never made 5000fps, BUT, going by the effective range for one shot one kill type shots with the L129A1 sharpshooter rifle (as demonstrated the other week on one of our ranges) is 1800m then I'm guessing the muzzle velocity must be somewhere near that.

Personally, I'd like the ammo they use in 'ultimate force', no recoil, but anybody hit gets launched 6ft plus, and, little to no blood, so the meat damage on a roe should be minimal, just think of that on a 1800yd bunny, in 5-35mph crosswinds, first shot hits everytime, no recoil, massive terminal effects but no blood.

 

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_Eargesplitten_Loudenboomer

[gbal]

The splittenboomer jobbie never made 5000fps, BUT, going by the effective range for one shot one kill type shots with the L129A1 sharpshooter rifle (as demonstrated the other week on one of our ranges) is 1800m then I'm guessing the muzzle velocity must be somewhere near that.

Personally, I'd like the ammo they use in 'ultimate force', no recoil, but anybody hit gets launched 6ft plus, and, little to no blood, so the meat damage on a roe should be minimal, just think of that on a 1800yd bunny, in 5-35mph crosswinds, first shot hits everytime, no recoil, massive terminal effects but no blood.

 

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_Eargesplitten_Loudenboomer

The Eargesplitter(usw=etc in 'german')indeed failed to win the $5000 prize for 5000fps,in the 1960s.It was 224 50 g bullet, with a necked down 378 Weatherby case,105 g of H570,and made 4600 fps.One of the design team,a Mr Ackley may have refused further development,on the grounds that none of his own cartridges could be Improved,unlike most others,but this story seems a little implausible.Modern powders would help,and one of the lighter 224 bullets would probably do it. It is a moot point,however,that if the projectile was reduced to plasma,as Alan comments,whether the prize could be awarded. We are working with some contemporary nail varnishes from Essex,which are tough enough to last at least 45 minutes in the full glare of tv studio lights,before needing to be reapplied,and if they turn out to be a flame resistant coating,bullet integrity may be within our grasp.

george

[gbal]

The splittenboomer jobbie never made 5000fps, BUT, going by the effective range for one shot one kill type shots with the L129A1 sharpshooter rifle (as demonstrated the other week on one of our ranges) is 1800m then I'm guessing the muzzle velocity must be somewhere near that.

Personally, I'd like the ammo they use in 'ultimate force', no recoil, but anybody hit gets launched 6ft plus, and, little to no blood, so the meat damage on a roe should be minimal, just think of that on a 1800yd bunny, in 5-35mph crosswinds, first shot hits everytime, no recoil, massive terminal effects but no blood.

 

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_Eargesplitten_Loudenboomer

Impressive indeed.Hollywood's expertise has been somewhat neglected by wildcatters. One snag may be cost-with a $50m budget,and allowing say $2m for everthing else,you can see it might be pricey per shot.Have they overcome the 'sparky bullets',which would be distinctly unsubtle for night shooting?

george

[gbal]

I was bored this morning after my tea and toast. So I thought that I would like 'something completely different' so what about a .22 cal diameter bullet in a .338 Lap case.

Any ideas of what powder to use and should I seat my bullets touching or perhaps 10 to 20 thou off the lands. And for the ballistically experienced out there, what velocities could be achieved and perhaps also barrel life! Also does anyone make dies to suit this new and exciting calibre that I have invented which I shall call the .22 Geordieboy.

I await with eager anticipation from the equally bored this morning.

Cheers.

Addendum - would this round be better at short range or perhaps 1000yd benchrest or f class, or maybe good for both.

 

The 50th annniversary of the 224-.378 Weatherby Mag is coming soon (50g,105g H570,4600 fps).A fitting tribute might be modern components in the 338 case,as the S 50 may be a little overbore,and can't really be loaded down that much.Unlike your breakfast,the bullets are more likely to be marmalade plasma (see Alan's comments) than just toast,but hey!that removes the bullet jump variable.

george

[Andrew]

I was sat at work today(bored as usual!) and my mind starte spending money I do not have by coming up with wildcat calibres I'd like to build!

And I wondered has anyone ever wildcatted the 6.5x55AI By necking it up to 7mm? Thought it might be a useful calibre!?

 

Well. The Swiss have the 7.5x55 which I shoot a lot of. The brass isn't too common here so I make it by necking up 284 Winchester. It's a perfect fit but for a slightly reduced rim diameter. By that yokel logic, a 6.5x55 necked up to 7mm would be 'like' a 284 Winchester.

 

There really isn't much new out there.~Andrew

[gbal]

Well. The Swiss have the 7.5x55 which I shoot a lot of. The brass isn't too common here so I make it by necking up 284 Winchester. It's a perfect fit but for a slightly reduced rim diameter. By that yokel logic, a 6.5x55 necked up to 7mm would be 'like' a 284 Winchester.

 

There really isn't much new out there.~Andrew

 

Re yokel logic: "we want a lever action,close to 270 performance"...." but not that 284 you've made for us"

george

[Laurie]

If the bullet range improved with some really up to date models, .270 (6.8mm) wildcats appeal. Ackley wrote yonks ago that the 270-08 wildcat (necked-down 308 Win) was a great little sporting cartridge and was surprised no manufacturer had picked up on it. Likewise, a 6.8-284 splitting the difference between the 6.5 and original 7mm versions might make an attractive long-range match cartridge if you had a decent choice of high BC 150-170gn bullets. The counter argument is that there is so little difference between 270 and 7mm, that there's only room for one of them, and if you're making a choice, the larger calibre is always better.

 

There's not a lot of designs around whose cases fall between the BR and 308 'families' size / capacity-wise. Water capacity of a range of smaller numbers looks like:

 

BR ..................... 38gn

 

6.5X47 Lapua ...... 48gn

 

6XC ................... 50gn

 

308 Win ............. 56gn

 

Split the difference between the BR and 308 families and you'd get something around 45-46gn capacity, a little smaller than the Lapua 6.5, so maybe reform that case to set the shoulder back a bit.

 

Whereas existing wildcats seem to take this bunch and make them smaller calibre such as the 6-6.4X47 or .22 Crystal based on the same case, I'd likely go the other way and try a 7X47 Lapua or 7XC (or 6.8mm versions subject to above comments re 0.277-inch bullet design improving). This pair or an even smaller 46gn capacity case would obviously be outclassed in long-range match shooting by the .284 with 162s to 180s, but might make very nice shorter range cartridges which would be very pleasant to shoot and give a long barrel life.

 

On the other hand ... there is the .260 AI and 7mm-08 AI already out there with reamers available, easily obtained brass, and a bit more performance. It's taken years for people to wake up to the standard 260's benefits. I reckon the 7-08 falls into the same category, the AI version closing the performance gap with the straight 284 Win a little and reducing the need for case trimming a lot.

[marty]

I too have given this ultra high velocity thing some thought .How about a .338 case necked down to.30 cal firing a sabotted tungsten carbide need type dart with stabilising fins down a slightly tapering smooth bore .With a diameter of 2mm and 30mm long it would weigh around 30 gr.

Come on you boffins would it work .