gunnery Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 Hi the question is when having a barrel fluted is there a different benefits between 1 spirel 2 striaght etc or is it just about looks i know it is supposed to lighten the barrel but what about the heat factor is there a difference between the different types of fluting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brown dog Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 Hi the question is when having a barrel fluted is there a different benefits between 1 spirel 2 striaght etc or is it just about looks i know it is supposed to lighten the barrel but what about the heat factor is there a difference between the different types of fluting. To my brain, all other things being equal, a spirally fluted barrel is going to be less stiff than its longitudinally fluted equivalent. Would be interested in hearing engineering comment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch_egg Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 But they look BLING Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnery Posted January 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 thats what i am trying to find out spud is it fashion or is there a purpose behind spirel fluting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hancock Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 A direct quote from ER Shaw's custom barrel website - http://www.ershawbarrels.com/scb-fluted-barrels.php - The unique appearance of our Helical Fluting provides the discriminating shooter with a barrel that not only looks great but is up to thirty percent more rigid than a similar barrel with Straight Fluting. Helical fluting provides additional surface area for improved cooling, improved barrel harmonics, and helps to counter act rotational torque, giving the shooter greater shot consistency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnery Posted January 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 thanks for that David that is very intresting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
20series Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 I have to agree that the spiralled fluting does look cool, this is one of Dolphin Guns (pic from their web site) Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brown dog Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 The unique appearance of our Helical Fluting provides the discriminating shooter with a barrel that not only looks great but is up to thirty percent more rigid than a similar barrel with Straight Fluting. Helical fluting provides additional surface area for improved cooling, improved barrel harmonics, and helps to counter act rotational torque, giving the shooter greater shot consistency. Blimey, sounds like they should add that it's a cure for the common cold too I'd be interested in hearing why they claim it to be more rigid - makes no sense to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsgobang88 Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 A direct quote from ER Shaw's custom barrel website - http://www.ershawbarrels.com/scb-fluted-barrels.php - The unique appearance of our Helical Fluting provides the discriminating shooter with a barrel that not only looks great but is up to thirty percent more rigid than a similar barrel with Straight Fluting. Helical fluting provides additional surface area for improved cooling, improved barrel harmonics, and helps to counter act rotational torque, giving the shooter greater shot consistency. Wow, Does it make coffee too! Seriously, is there any evidence that a spirally fluted barrel is any more rigid than an identical barrel with straight flutes? Someone please expain to me in all seriousness, how do spiral flutes 'counter act rotational torque'? This seems akin to debating how many fairies can dance on the head of a pin! Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnery Posted January 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 dont know matt but the reason i have asked is beacause i was thinking of having my trueflight barrel fluted and trying to find out the pro,s and con,s with different styles what is affective and what is a fashion statment must admit i do think the helical fluting looks really good as in picture what 20 series as posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brown dog Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 Wow, Does it make coffee too! Seriously, is there any evidence that a spirally fluted barrel is any more rigid than an identical barrel with straight flutes? Someone please expain to me in all seriousness, how do spiral flutes 'counter act rotational torque'? This seems akin to debating how many fairies can dance on the head of a pin! Alan At my thick level of understanding; the more material you remove from something, the less rigid it becomes - so if the spiral causes more material to be removed (link with 'greater surface area' claim) then what's left will -all else being equal- be less rigid than a cut taking less material. Along with that I would also intuitively suspect that as a structure, a spiral is less resistant to lateral deformation than a ...can't think of the word....'straight' structure eg springs are easy to bend. ?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brown dog Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 dont know matt but the reason i have asked is beacause i was thinking of having my trueflight barrel fluted and trying to find out the pro,s and con,s with different styles what is affective and what is a fashion statment must admit i do think the helical fluting looks really good as in picture what 20 series as posted. Yup, it can look good; I think the Timberwolf style is the 'blingest'! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnery Posted January 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 is it a gentleman called rupert who imports the timberwolf because i met him at wms one weekend he was kinda displaying them he had two or three rifles for people to have a look at the barrel like you say was descibe as super super rigid because of the helical fluting but i think he said they where twisted in that fashion not fluted (i could be mistaken)but they started from £5000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch_egg Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 I would never get an already chamberred and fitted barrel fluted. And by heck I have considered it. I own a cylineder .20Tac... The Timberwolf's have a twist rather than a flute. Very nice they are but £5k is excessive IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 At my thick level of understanding; the more material you remove from something, the less rigid it becomes - so if the spiral causes more material to be removed (link with 'greater surface area' claim) then what's left will -all else being equal- be less rigid than a cut taking less material. Along with that I would also intuitively suspect that as a structure, a spiral is less resistant to lateral deformation than a ...can't think of the word....'straight' structure eg springs are easy to bend. ?! I can see that fluting 'MIGHT' make something more rigid IF the analogy of taking a piece of flat card and then putting corrugations into it has any validity for metal structures BUT struggle to see how spiral fluting is anything but cosmetic in that sense. Fluting MUST surely aid heat dispersion via a larger surface area. A far bigger concern for me is the potential to relieve inherent streses in the metal and create a 'banana' barrel...... not seen that in any of mine but you will see various articles raising concerns that it can happen in button rifled barrels which have not been properly stress-relieved after rifling. Didn't happen on my Truflite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tackb Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 to create rigidity you need to move further from the neutral axis of the item so a fluted barrel would be no more rigid than a cylinder barrel of the same diameter and bore , which is more rigid a tube with a 5mm wall that is 50mm in diameter or 100mm in diameter? BUT a fluted barrel would be lighter , which i think is the main advantage ? surely MG barrels would be fluted if it materialy improved cooling? i know some were in the past but nowadays i don't think they are very much? they do look cool though........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brown dog Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 so a fluted barrel would be no more rigid than a cylinder barrel of the same diameter and bore Yup, but it'll actually be less rigid than a cylinder of the same diameter - what the longitudinally fluted barrel will be stiffer than is a cylindrical barrel of the same weight (and therefore a lesser diameter). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tackb Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 Yup, but it'll actually be less rigid than a cylinder of the same diameter - what the longitudinally fluted barrel will be stiffer than is a cylindrical barrel of the same weight (and therefore a lesser diameter). yes but the amounts were talking about are insignificant for these purposes only the weight saving would be of concern really? i think the only two reasons to consider fluting would be looks or weight , any percieved stiffness difference by and large would be insignificant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brown dog Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 yes but the amounts were talking about are insignificant for these purposes only the weight saving would be of concern really? i think the only two reasons to consider fluting would be looks or weight , any percieved stiffness difference by and large would be insignificant. Rigidity differences are actually significant: I forget where I got these notes from so apologies to whoever I’m failing to acknowledge! Rigidity is directly proportional to Moment of Inertia. Fluted (OD 0.840”) versus Plain (OD 0.840”) • Weight: 38% less • Rigidity (as a function of Moment of Inertia): 43% less The fluted barrel is much lighter, much less rigid, but has much more surface area than a solid barrel with the same overall outside diameter. Fluted (OD 0.840”) versus Light Varmint (OD 0.700”) • Weight: Same • Stiffness (as a function of Moment Inertia): 25% more The fluted barrel is much more rigid, and has much more surface area than a solid barrel of the same weight. To illustrate the point, calculations of muzzle deflection based on the moment of inertia of various barrels loaded with a 500lb weight as cantilevers were given: Heavy non-fluted deflection 4.4 inches. Heavy fluted deflection 7.5 inches Light Varmint deflection 9.5 inches. Of course… that all relates to longitudinal flutes - I can't see how the same would hold true for a spiral cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tackb Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 Rigidity differences are actually significant: I forget where I got these notes from so apologies to whoever I’m failing to acknowledge! Rigidity is directly proportional to Moment of Inertia. Fluted (OD 0.840”) versus Plain (OD 0.840”) • Weight: 38% less • Rigidity (as a function of Moment of Inertia): 43% less The fluted barrel is much lighter, much less rigid, but has much more surface area than a solid barrel with the same overall outside diameter. Fluted (OD 0.840”) versus Light Varmint (OD 0.700”) • Weight: Same • Stiffness (as a function of Moment Inertia): 25% more The fluted barrel is much more rigid, and has much more surface area than a solid barrel of the same weight. To illustrate the point, calculations of muzzle deflection based on the moment of inertia of various barrels loaded with a 500lb weight as cantilevers were given: Heavy non-fluted deflection 4.4 inches. Heavy fluted deflection 7.5 inches Light Varmint deflection 9.5 inches. Of course… that all relates to longitudinal flutes - I can't see how the same would hold true for a spiral cut. i'd be interested in actual on target results , which is what we are all interested in at the end of the day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brown dog Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 i'd be interested in actual on target results , which is what we are all interested in at the end of the day? I think that it'd be safe to say that 99.99% of precision firearms makers and users accept that stiffer barrels are likely to be more consistent - not too many benchrest matches being won with sporter-weight barrels. Think there's a reason for that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tackb Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 I think that it'd be safe to say that 99.99% of precision firearms makers and users accept that stiffer barrels are likely to be more consistent - not too many benchrest matches being won with sporter-weight barrels. Think there's a reason for that so apart from weight with equal diameters there is no real advantage to any kind of fluting ? i read an interesting article about how fluting makes no real difference to cooling once but for the life of me i cant find it now or i'd post the link for interests sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brown dog Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 so apart from weight with equal diameters there is no real advantage to any kind of fluting ? i read an interesting article about how fluting makes no real difference to cooling once but for the life of me i cant find it now or i'd post the link for interests sake. That's one way of looking at it, infact if you're comparing barrels only of equal diameter, fluting is a disadvantage as it makes the barrel less rigid. But if, as most do, people are thinking in terms of barrel weight, you could say that for two barrels of equal weight, a fluted barrel can have a greater diameter, and therfore the fluting (+ greater diameter) will give you around a 25% more rigid barrel. Fluting does make a difference to cooling, but not for surface area reasons - that's insignificant - the difference is related to stored energy and specific heat capacity when compared diameter to diameter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch_egg Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 The ultimate Fluting information site http://varmintal.com/aflut.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnery Posted January 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 looks as if vermint al is a favour of fluted barrels then Hi MATT 99.9% more consistant stiffer barrel for consistancey i dont know look at darrels record what he as just broke for benchrest with a fluted barrel just a thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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