Davy Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 I rang my FEO today to discuss the legality of making a black powder pistol. If I am only making it for myself and have no plans to build multiple units so I can carry on as far as he is concerned. I asked him to make a note on the system as to my intentions as I would hate to be the subject of a dawn raid and once I have decided on what I am building I can apply for a variation. So design criteria, I want to build a single shot black powder pistol, initially smooth bore but with the option to put a rifled barrel on at a later date. This of course means aquiring a length of rifled barrel, am I correct in thinking I can legally pocess a length of rifled barrel without a variation as long as it is not chambered? I would also like it to be relatively accurate and possible include some more contemporary features so it would not be a flintlock! Anyway I have some questions I am thinking of a swing out chamber, think of a six shot but with the single chamber, has anyone seen such a design before? Percussion cap ignition immediately springs to mind but I would prefer something different, I was musing over the idea of using pistol primers in blocks that were pushed into the breech from the load end, so I could have a dozen blocks pre primed, stick one in followed by the powder and projectile and close and lock the breech however this does make for some serious safety issues as I would hate to have the primed block exit out of the back instead of the projectile going forward. Calibre, I am thinking of something smallish, maybe in the .32 area, does anyone have any views on this? Finally I would possible move to the BP equivalents to make it more range friendly and reduce the need for frequent cleaning, is this worth looking at? What other features would be worth looking at or including? So, is this madness or the basis for a good project? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 am I correct in thinking I can legally pocess a length of rifled barrel without a variation as long as it is not chambered? As far as I know, I agree with you. I think that until it is chambered or capable of discharging a projectile then it's just a simple length of steel tube which has an internal thread running up the middle., However a lot can depend on your local police force's interpretation of the firearms law. For example, I know a vet who works for a zoo and uses a blow pipe as a dart gun to sedate animals. With his local police firearms he is required to have copper plumbing pipe as 'barrels' on his FAC. The copper pipe is from his local DIY shop and it has no chamber and is freely available to anyone as we all know. He has a few different sizes and lengths of pipe for different darts. The police make him put each copper pipe his FAC! Whatever happens, make sure you get everything in writing from your local force to cover yourself. I believe the best propellant alternative to BP is pyrodex. Using that will also help avoid the special transport documents and explosives licenses associated with black powder. I'm not too sure about the legality in manufacturing this at home without an RFD. I know you may well get a variation for it, but gunsmiths have a detail on the RFD "precise nature of business" such as "testing, manufacturer, repair of firearms, selling of ammunition etc. Your FAC does not have that and so could be a problem? Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy Posted January 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 Yes, getting it in writing is a good idea to save any problems... I have the base idea in place now but need to work out how to ignite the BP, I want to avoid the traditional top hat primers and use modern primers instead, the problem is working out how best to utilise them.... I can legally build the pistol as it is a one off and for me only, it is only if I wanted to build multiple units that I would need to be an RFD, the next problem is the barrel, I need to confirm I can legally buy and hold an un-chambered barrel and find someone who can sell me a short blank. At this stage I was even considering a section of rifle barrel that has been shot already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stitch303 Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 sounds like an interesting project, may have to dust the lathe off as far as i know a barrel is only a barrel once it has been chambered. as a cap n ball pistol does not have a chamber not sure at what stage in the process it would become a firearm. check out westlake engineering pistol conversions which use shotgun primers and smokeless powder,you may be able to do something along those lines using black powder. regarding the preloaded blocks if i am visualising the right thing would this not then become a cartridge pistol? just a few thoughts. regards david. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy Posted January 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 You are quite right, I would be in danger of building an S5 firearm so I have gone back to the idea of a single swing out chamber muzzle loader. The image is of an edited .40 Volcanic pistol, I have shortened the barrel and magazine tube to be more in keeping with my design idea and raised the back breech area to make it work and sketched in the chamber on the right hand view. To operate you would pull the lever under the barrel forwards, this allows the chamber to be opened, add the powder and a conical boollit, close the chamber and the lever springs back into place locking the chamber. Yes it is slow to load but I will be in no rush. I am thinking of either .360" or .354" however it is down to the barrel I source. Material wise, a combination of silver finish and maybe more silver so stainless and aluminium. I did think of building the breech in brass which could be a nice alternative. The under lever is purely cosmetic and acts as a trigger guard only. The nice thing about this is it would have a huge tennon on the barrel so good and solid and I am musing over the idea of a switch barrel and chamber so in theory I could swap calibres. The trigger box and hammer would be in a cassette so easily dropped out for cleaning and maintenance. Also I would use a Varifire type system so I can use shotgun primers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryh Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Dave, You could make up the boolit and powder as a unit as per the Sharps 53 capping breach loader : which will speed up operation and not have loose powder about? Just a thought Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldie Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 If you give Alan Westlake a ring Davy, i'd lay money on he would be more than happy to advise you on the legalities. He,s a smashing fella, and eats sleeps and breathes pistols. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybrock Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Sounds an interesting project Davy, but don't make one like this clown from my home town! http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2082225/Trevor-Cracknell-jailed-making-deadly-gun-FENCEPOST.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy Posted January 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Terry, I did used to roll my own many years ago so I know the technique, just not for pistol loads so it is worth thinking about, one of the things I must do is decide on an appropriate load and size the chamber accordingly. Dave, good point, I will give Alan a call next week, he has certainly dabbled with such things for many years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarinePMI Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 Might want to give this a look... Home built Volcanic Pistol Home built Volcanic Rifle There is also a section for BP guns... Great site for home builds btw... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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