20 MOA Rail

[brown dog]

You guys make me laugh.

 

You want quality and price to match the yanks ?

 

OK, put your money where your mouth is and give me an order for 100 of whatever rails you require [of one type and action choice] I,ll match Near,s prices.....you pay the drawing up, and developement charges for the rails.

 

That is what i would have to pay to produce, say, a rail for a sako 85, or a tikka 595, or a blah, blah blah.

 

Get real, or stop trolling.

 

In fact, this thread has real nastiness in it, quite obviously aimed at the rifle i posted earlier about, in an attempt to post something of interest to the readers here.

 

Quite frankly, i,m disgusted.

 

Grow up.

 

Dave it's banter not nastiness.

 

Just pointing out the irony of anyone who's bought a 3rd E rail waving their flag and singing 'Swing Low Sweet Chariot' followed by 'Jerusalem' and then turning around to stick it on their jewell not jackson, truflite not Border (etc!) rifle. - it is ironic!

 

[the 'Swing Low Sweet Chariot' posts read to me a bit like someone putting a £200 Brit roof rack on their £30000 jeep and then using the roof rack to claim that they're all about supporting the British car industry; and then trying to claim patriotic moral high ground over someone putting a Thule roof rack on their £30K US jeep ]

 

(and like Dave (Scotch) not sure what rifle you're talking about! Nothing in this thread reads to me as being aimed at anyone - think maybe you had a Friday night like mine?!)

 

 

 

No offence intended - it's just mildly amusing to my sad mind

[baldie]

Matt, cg triggers are american.

 

Jacksons haven,t had any made with their name on for at least 18 months i believe.

 

I have a source for them now, direct from the states, and they are £280.

 

As for being grumpy Dave , its pisstakers and knockers that make that way sometimes. I intensly dislike to see fledgeling British manufacturers constantly put down by shooters, who squeal like pigs on one hand because when they stamp their feet,when they cant have what they want instantly, then flatly refuse to support people who make the products, instead, putting money into a foreign company, then paying their taxes and ours too when it lands here.

 

You would also have found Dave, had you had those Lawtons barrelled and built by me, that you would have found me a little more sympathetic to getting you some replacements made. I actually have in stock, rails in stainless to fit them now. They are the same spacing as my own action.

 

I am about to sink my entire life savings into having some custom parts made here, by third eye . Thats a huge gamble in these times. You guys should think about all the other people who are doing the same in the UK gun industry, and maybe think about supporting them a little more. If not in deed, by word....then perhaps we might not get so grumpy .

[DaveT]

For my ten pence worth I think that we are all in 'furious agreement' that we will normally buy the best quality that our budget allows and that where it is sourced is usually a secondary criteria.

 

I am VERY happy with Daves Valkyrie action in my latest gun and now can't think of any reason why I would return to buying Surgeons as per all my others.

 

However for that gun I wanted to try a different barrel to my others which are a mixture of Border and Krieger (Bought on the then prevailing availability and calibre rather than nationality)so I ended up with a Truflite which is also brilliant.

 

I will certainly buy British as a default provided Quality, Availability & Price all work out .... and as Dave said we will never reach that happy state of affairs unless we give British manufacturers support whenever we can..... perhaps trying something you might not normally go for on a measure of faith and confidence in your chosen gunsmith to give you sound advice.

[Gunsgobang88]

Hi All,

 

I've been following this thread on the merits of buying British with interest. Any realistic manufacturer who is making firearms or components full time knows that he cannot rely on the UK market 'just because it's British'. Any items have to be produced to a competitive quality and price versus imported items. This means making items in large quantity (unlikely for most of the UK market), successfully exporting or 'piggy-backing' production costs onto the back of non firearms items. All three routes (or a mix of them) are being used by British companies at the present.

 

To those who appreciate the efforts of the UK guntrade I know of the following developments that should reach fruition next year:-

 

1. 3 different action designs from 2 companies for traditional sporting rifles and tactical/varmint designs in cro-moly, stainless and titanium.

2. The setting up of the UK's largest CNC facility 100% devoted to firearms and component production.

3. UK production of one of America's leading custom actions.

4. The possible UK installation of a complete Pratt & Whitney barrel production facility.

5. The production of 3 different designs of double rifles. The maker already has more advance orders than the entire annual production of double

rifles in the UK guntrade.

6. Serious production of competition shotguns to compete with upper end of the Perazzi and Beretta ranges.

 

Some of the above projects may not succeed but there are many people working hard to put British made products in the hands of UK and worldwide users,

 

Alan

[Scotch_egg]

 

 

You would also have found Dave, had you had those Lawtons barrelled and built by me, that you would have found me a little more sympathetic to getting you some replacements made. I actually have in stock, rails in stainless to fit them now. They are the same spacing as my own action.

 

I am about to sink my entire life savings into having some custom parts made here, by third eye . Thats a huge gamble in these times. You guys should think about all the other people who are doing the same in the UK gun industry, and maybe think about supporting them a little more. If not in deed, by word....then perhaps we might not get so grumpy .

 

 

Dave far from it, I found you very sympathetic to my want's and needs. Infact you put me onto Craig at Third Eye and also told me about your stainless rails that were in the design process and not available. However they still were no quite what I wanted. This is what I was after

 

As you can see its a solid rail with no gaps on the top and no cut out for the port. This is after all a thread about 20MOA rails

 

 

 

The market for custom rifle parts has seen immense changes of the last 3 years. Prior to the new restrictions on US exports the UK did not need to produce actions as the US market is so huge and well catered for. We are but a drop in the ocean in comparison. However you have rightly identified a gap created in the UK firearms market and I have no doubt that your investment will see a good return with some very happy customers.

[Nelly]

Thanks for all the replies fellas, top notch.

And I wasn't aware such a lively debate would follow, must get some more popcorn in

[Fergal]

OK, heres my take on the whole thing and Im speaking completely from my own experience in business as a custom rifle builder. Irish people and by all accounts english people also are not happy unless there being slightly ripped off, they give out s**t about the price but they'll still always go with the dearest stuff. Quality is usually measured by price and nothing else.

In my first year I was literally doing custom work for peanuts to try to establish a name for myself, that didnt really work either so I put my prices on par with the rest of the world and guess what, you got it, now Im respected. OK I dont socialise with rockstars and the Lamborghini is still on hold, as for the helicopter, well I just dont know anymore but I did see an immediate change as soon as I started charging realistic prices. If its dear it must be good and thats my 2 cents as far as I can gather.

[baldie]

You have a point there Fergal.

 

However, i would also give a good example of a phone call, just this very friday, from a chap who i have had a few e-mail conversations with.

 

Lovely guy who wanted a .308 building on an AX platform. Quite obviously not short of a bob or two, going on his spec. He ordered the best components.

 

His parting comments being that he thought he was getting a rifle built for a reasonable cost with the best parts, and was suitably incensed about another "gunsmith" who had tried to charge him £1500 more than my quote.

 

I considered mine fair, and i make a living from the profits on such.The rifle was ordered there and then, and a bank transfer made.

 

I know where you are coming from on parts costs, as some people really do believe expensive must be best, however when it comes to charges for labour , the same people actually believe the reverse to be true.

 

Another example.

 

I charge £65 to remove a barrel, fit it into the lathe, clock it all up and screwcut it in any thread the customer requires, all cut to a certified thread ring gauge. Refit the barrel and give the action etc a good look over as its reassembled.

 

The amount of people who moan that "their mate" can do it in a 3 jaw chuck in his garden shed for £30 is unreal.

 

Usually back the next week with a screwed on mod that looks like a dogs hind leg.

 

The trade at times can be absolutely hilarious, and we should all put it down in a book.

[sauer]

theres an idea for ya baldie

 

 

write it all down in a book and publish

 

"life and trials of a yorkshire gunsmith"

 

 

id buy it...be a funny read i bet.

 

 

 

folk may laugh but i work offshore.....and a guy few yrs ago wrote a book bout life offshore ..it was a hit then a follow up book which i believe did well also.

 

then maybe you could get one up on fergal and get the lambo AND the chopper.

 

sauer / paul