How do you do it? Any ideas?

[rabbit fingers]

If you are shooting with a few mates has anyone come up with a simple way to direct your companions onto a target so you are all looking at the same thing. I'm trying to avoid the " It's the one on the left, next to the rock 20ft right of the second oak tree from the left" any ideas? This is for static positions where you set up for a day in a target rich environment.

[varmartin]

I was thinking about this the last time we were out long range varminting ....

The best solution must be a quick sketch and a basic grid reference over lay....

I guess this solution would best suit ` sniper & spotter` but would have to be better communicated for a larger team...

Say split an area into A>B>C sections and then relay to the others that your target is ` right edge of top third in section A ..??

 

Note that all in the group must be ` singing from the same hymn sheet`...and I know how frustrating it can be when you cant find the target in the area that your mate is doing his best to discribe with poor info..

[MalcW?]

We use the clock face and distance.

 

i.e 10 o`clock, 220yrds.

[Gandy]

We use clock face and distance with key land marks I guess that this would not work well if your both not on the same firing point. In which case a grid with key reference land marks works well.

 

It never fails to surprise me how such a small difference in perspective can make things unseen at distance.

[brown dog]

Step One

 

Start by agreeing names for obvious features across the area under consideration

eg

'bushy tree'

'post'

'earth scar'

 

Get pals to look roughly in the correct area by naming the nearest reference point to the object you want them to spot:

Eg "right end of earth scar"

 

Step two

 

Visualise a clock face hanging vertically with its centre on the reference point.

 

Determine where the target lies on the clock face. (Couple clock with left/right)

 

Eg " Reference right end of earth scar"

" Right Two Oclock"

 

Step 3

 

Decide how far left or right of it you want your friends to look.

 

(Hold your hand up at arms lenths and measure the distance in finger widths, or knuckle peaks, or fist widths)

 

Eg " Reference right end of earth scar"

" Right Two Oclock"

" Three Knuckles"

"(and then describe the target!)"

 

 

NOTE - measure distance horizontally from the clock centre. Use the clock ray to indicate where to look in relation to that line.

 

 

 

 

Use the same procedure with your ret once you're using optics

 

"From 'Post'; left 7 oclock 10 mils; target description"

 

 

Remember: Measure distance horizontally (not along the clock ray)

 

 

 

Hope that makes sense! My kids can do it perfectly - great for pointing things out on walks

 

If you're not naming points because you're mobile, start with an obvious point and indicate next obvious point(s) [left/right, clock-ray, distance, description] as stepping stones until you get people looking into the area you want them to,

[onehole]

Yeah I think Brown Dog,s method Step one and two anyway.I,m usually left behind and some bu@@er has shot it by then!!!!he he,saves my ammo I suppose but I usually see the bits flying!!!!

[nemasis243]

This is a good question to ask , there has been many times that Dave (6mmBR) and myself have been a little confused when the other has spotted something and we are trying to guide the other into the target.

[varmartin]

Very good explanation Matt....you did not disappoint ..

 

Now ...to put it into practice next time us Cornish lads are out bunny bashing, trouble is there arw loads of ` earth scars` when out varminting with the .308`s .. :D

[Barrelsniffer]

Same as how mat has described but where you point out obv features before shooting make a range card you all must of seen them half circle type..and plot on in relation to your pos where the obv features are with ranges also..and also try memorise these features but if you forget you have them on the range card...with the 12 Oclock straight ahead and other clock numbers as pr a half clock face from say 9 around past 12 to 3..plotted on range card..

 

Very easy if done correctly

 

Ie 11 oclock 300yds..Bush..everyone shouts seen..5.oclock from bush..5yds. rabbit..to that effect.

 

Mick

[devilishdave]

section, enemy, Base of loan tree, rapid fire!!

[Barrelsniffer]

section, enemy, Base of loan tree, rapid fire!!

 

 

Which Loan tree there are quite a few ?..

[brown dog]

section, enemy, Base of loan tree, rapid fire!!

 

 

Oi, what I described was not GRIT.

I've explained target indication; not fire orders

 

You do the posts on torque setting for rear-idler nuts and I'll do the targeting stuff

[eldon]

Whats a "loan " tree anyway don't think I have seen one. Is it one next to a river or grass "bank"

[Barrelsniffer]

Here is a Range card similar to what i have can be copied then laminated and kept in notebook/folder..or you can do as i have buy the packs and clip them into a binder notebook..link below

 

http://www.rvops.co.uk/index.php?main_page=popup_image&pID=2263

 

http://www.rvops.co.uk/rite-in-the-rain-95/loose-leaf-98/

 

 

 

Mick

[Barrelsniffer]

And another range card

 

 

Mick

[brown dog]

Mick,

 

What I’m describing is target indication.

 

Range Cards and GRIT are not the same thing! ....and they lead to ‘clock muddle’ when talking about target indication. GRIT and Range cards talk about a horizontal clock with 12 oclock on an arbitrary line (eg “AXIS - 2 oclock” (or Mick, on your Range Card a compass bearing)).

 

 

 

 

Target indication is about getting people on to something that might be hard to see.

 

And it uses a vertical clock !

 

Here’s my post again with a couple of pics I've been sad enough to dig out and some extra explanation:

 

Step One

 

 

Start by agreeing names for obvious features across the area under consideration

eg

'bushy tree'

'post'

'earth scar'

 

Get pals to look roughly in the correct area by naming the nearest reference point to the object you want them to spot:

Eg "right end of earth scar"

 

[After stage one, the similarity with a Range card ends!]

 

Step two

 

Visualise a clock face hanging vertically with its centre on the reference point.

 

Determine where the target lies on the clock face. (Couple clock with left/right)

 

Eg “Reference bottom left corner of ground floor roof"

"go left, eight o’clock"

 

[Digging this pic out has reminded me; for precise stuff be specific about where on the reference point you are starting from; eg “post” is no good; be precise: “top of post” or “bottom of post”]

 

Step 3

 

Decide how far left or right of it you want your friends to look.

 

(Hold your hand up at arms lenths and measure the distance in finger widths, or knuckle peaks, or fist widths)

 

[Don’t worry about the mils on that; just talk in terms of “2 knuckles” “3fingers” “1 fist” ]

 

Eg " Reference right end of earth scar"

" Right Two Oclock"

" Three Knuckles"

"(and then describe the target!)"

 

 

NOTE - measure distance horizontally from the clock centre. Use the clock ray to indicate where to look in relation to that line.

 

The indication to the farm trough would be “Reference bottom left corner of ground floor roof, go left, eight o’clock, 20 mils, right hand side of farm trough”.

 

 

 

 

 

Remember: Measure distance horizontally (not along the clock ray) [This becomes critical when doing the same procedure using optics !]

[devilishdave]

Oi, what I described was not GRIT.

I've explained target indication; not fire orders

 

You do the posts on torque setting for rear-idler nuts and I'll do the targeting stuff

 

 

Ha ha only joking, just reprimanded my self for forgeting the range a few hill sprints for me!!

 

Dave

[Barrelsniffer]

Mick,

 

What I’m describing is target indication.

 

Range Cards and GRIT (Group, Range, Indication, Type of Fire) are not the same thing! ....and they lead to ‘clock muddle’ when talking about target indication. GRIT and Range cards talk about a horizontal clock with 12 oclock on an arbitrary line (eg “AXIS - 2 oclock” (or Mick, on your Range Card a compass bearing)).

 

 

 

 

Target indication is about getting people on to something that might be hard to see.

 

And it uses a vertical clock !

 

Here’s my post again with a couple of pics and extra explanation:

 

Step One

 

 

Start by agreeing names for obvious features across the area under consideration

eg

'bushy tree'

'post'

'earth scar'

 

Get pals to look roughly in the correct area by naming the nearest reference point to the object you want them to spot:

Eg "right end of earth scar"

 

[After stage one, the similarity with a Range card ends!]

 

Step two

 

Visualise a clock face hanging vertically with its centre on the reference point.

 

Determine where the target lies on the clock face. (Couple clock with left/right)

 

Eg “Reference bottom left corner of ground floor roof"

"go left, eight o’clock"

 

[Digging this pic out has reminded me; for precise stuff be specific about where on the reference point you are starting from; eg “post” is no good; be precise: “top of post” or “bottom of post”]

 

Step 3

 

Decide how far left or right of it you want your friends to look.

 

(Hold your hand up at arms lenths and measure the distance in finger widths, or knuckle peaks, or fist widths)

 

[Don’t worry about the mils on that; just talk in terms of “2 knuckles” “3fingers” “1 fist” ]

 

Eg " Reference right end of earth scar"

" Right Two Oclock"

" Three Knuckles"

"(and then describe the target!)"

 

 

NOTE - measure distance horizontally from the clock centre. Use the clock ray to indicate where to look in relation to that line.

 

The indication to the farm trough would be “Reference bottom left corner of ground floor roof, go left, eight o’clock, 20 mils, right hand side of farm trough”.

 

 

 

 

 

Remember: Measure distance horizontally (not along the clock ray) [This becomes critical when doing the same procedure using optics - so get into the habit!]

 

 

Yep understand but when i did my snipers course we did use range cards draw the lay out in front of you and plot it on range card and with the clock effect also on the range card was easier for tgt indications.

I still find it good to draw and put the ref points and obv features into range card.

so if there are say 4-5 with same drawing every one knows the range to certain points ect.or can quickly be given the ID from a point.also using the method you say.

 

So once the range card has the drawing like map with ranges and say the pic of your farm and the trough..once you id the farm then you go into tgt indication the WAY YOU SAY with the clock vertical as in your pics..

[brown dog]

Yep understand but when i did my snipers course we did use range cards draw the lay out in front of you and plot it on range card and with the clock effect also on the range card was easier for tgt indications.

I still find it good to draw and put the ref points and obv features into range card.

so if there are say 4-5 with same drawing every one knows the range to certain points ect.or can quickly be given the ID from a point.also using the method you say.

 

Mick, I'm not saying don't do range cards, I'm pointing out that tgt indication is a different thing.

Yup they have the same critical stage of "naming of parts" for reference points

For the bloke on stag they're a means of enabling him to shout a meaningful fire order;

For the sniper/ FOO /MFC they're part of the drill to force you to think about what's infront of you; and then speed you up if you have to do something about it by having the distances, grids or target numbers (or TRPs to our colonial cousins ) ready thought out.

 

We're on the same hymn-sheet; I'm just reading the original question as being about reading someone onto a target rather than creating a range card / panorama /sketch of your arcs.

[brown dog]

Mick

Just read your edit:

So once the range card has the drawing like map with ranges and say the pic of your farm and the trough..once you id the farm then you go into tgt indication the WAY YOU SAY with the clock horizontal as in your pics..

 

(vertical!)

 

Yup, we're on the same hymn sheet

[brown dog]

From bottom left corner of ground floor roof,

Right, 2:30

30 mils (one finger!)

Rabbit's head poking over bush

 

 

 

[i'd pick a nearer reference point, but that's where the clock is drawn on the pic ]

 

I'm not getting out enough

[Barrelsniffer]

Mick

Just read your edit:

 

 

(vertical!)

 

Yup, we're on the same hymn sheet

 

 

Yep! so way i was tought was horizontal clock on range card plotted like a map then as you say VERTICAL when tgt indication..bugger you seen my edited mistake..

 

I mention the range card as its a good way for those who have never done it ie plotting what you see with ranges and ref points and obv features ect,just as you would look at a map..once you see a tgt you can then give 11'O'clock 450 mts/yds large farm building ... as on range...once they have seen the farm then we go into how you describe it this time using clock effect VERTICAL..7'O'clock from farm (how ever you want do the dist)..tgt

 

Mick

[Barrelsniffer]

Mick, I'm not saying don't do range cards, I'm pointing out that tgt indication is a different thing.

Yup they have the same critical stage of "naming of parts" for reference points

For the bloke on stag they're a means of enabling him to shout a meaningful fire order;

For the sniper/ FOO /MFC they're part of the drill to force you to think about what's infront of you; and then speed you up if you have to do something about it by having the distances, grids or target numbers (or TRPs to our colonial cousins ) ready thought out.

 

We're on the same hymn-sheet; I'm just reading the original question as being about reading someone onto a target rather than creating a range card / panorama /sketch of your arcs.

 

 

YE point taken but i thought id throw in the range card as before you go into tgt indication you would want know what direction and range first..could be a tgt left or right so which one did your mate spot ? or do you want to shoot first.

 

But yeh i know what he meant in original first post..just me adding a bit more.

[Gandy]

Very intresting posts, I've learnt something tonight.

[brown dog]

Just been asked about this. Here's a bump:

 

Target indication is about getting people on to something that might be hard to see.

 

And it uses a vertical clock !

 

Here’s my post again with a couple of pics I've been sad enough to dig out and some extra explanation:

 

Step One

 

 

Start by agreeing names for obvious features across the area under consideration

eg

'bushy tree'

'post'

'earth scar'

 

Get pals to look roughly in the correct area by naming the nearest reference point to the object you want them to spot:

Eg "right end of earth scar"

 

[After stage one, the similarity with a Range card ends!]

 

Step two

 

Visualise a clock face hanging vertically with its centre on the reference point.

 

Determine where the target lies on the clock face. (Couple clock with left/right)

 

Eg “Reference bottom left corner of ground floor roof"

"go left, eight o’clock"

 

[Digging this pic out has reminded me; for precise stuff be specific about where on the reference point you are starting from; eg “post” is no good; be precise: “top of post” or “bottom of post”]

 

Step 3

 

Decide how far left or right of it you want your friends to look.

 

(Hold your hand up at arms lenths and measure the distance in finger widths, or knuckle peaks, or fist widths)

 

[Don’t worry about the mils on that; just talk in terms of “2 knuckles” “3fingers” “1 fist” ]

 

Eg " Reference right end of earth scar"

" Right Two Oclock"

" Three Knuckles"

"(and then describe the target!)"

 

 

NOTE - measure distance horizontally from the clock centre. Use the clock ray to indicate where to look in relation to that line.

 

The indication to the farm trough would be “Reference bottom left corner of ground floor roof, go left, eight o’clock, 20 mils, right hand side of farm trough”.

 

 

 

 

 

Remember: Measure distance horizontally (not along the clock ray) [This becomes critical when doing the same procedure using optics !]