Popsbengo

2 hours ago, No i deer said:

I watched a video on YouTube a few months ago looking for some king of 1 mile stuff but only found one and it was a woman shooting a 300wsm and I think a 212gr ELDX's to good effect..

1 mile is probaly harder than you think as we don't get many calm days..

I'd be up for seeing some small 1800yds group targets if your brave enough 😉

Eskdalemuir:  .338LM 300gr  -  14 moa hold left for wind at the mile target!  That was just a normal breezy day 😁

5 minutes ago, VarmLR said:

It'd be well worth the travel and overnight accommodation to have a day shooting at 1 mile.  It would also be a good opportunity to invest in a nice custom ultra long range rifle!  I think that the 6.5's and most of the 7's are probably good to 1200 if not 1400m so fall a little short and it'd probably be a waste of ammo even trying at a mile but plenty seem shoot it using 338 Lap mags.

Certainly do!  It's addictive.

I would recommend a 1:10 twist for a .338 as the heavier bullets are preferred for 1 mile.  I have 32" 1:10SG (similar to 5R) truflight and it shoots 300Gr Lap Scenar  and 285Gr ELD-M very nicely out to 2000m.  Lap. 250gr Scenar are not giving me the distance with accuracy.

Having watched the chap in Australia on Youboob, I'm thinking of using my 45/70 at the mile now!!

46 minutes ago, gazzarM1 said:

Eskdalemuir perhaps?

Old Eskdalemuir?  Assuming it will be available following the FCSA move.

bump

30 minutes ago, JDT said:

So just when I was about to start target / long range shooting at a few clubs, the whole coronavirus thing kicked off (literally the week before I was meant to have my first weekend on the range).

I’ve got plenty of shooting experience on vermin so had it in my head that once I was a member of the clubs I’d get a 6.5 Creedmoor on my ticket and go down the full custom route built on a Bighorn Origin.

Obviously since then I’ve had more than enough time to mull this over and concluded that it’s probably not the best call and I should be spending any extra money on ammo and punching as much paper on the range (when we can all get back to it of course...) to just improve at target shooting in general. I realistically couldn’t afford a full custom rifle and have enough money left over to get optics anywhere near good enough to do it justice.

So with that in mind I started googling best production / ‘out-of-the-box’ long range / tactical precision rifles for 600 - 1000 yards. Just wondering what people’s opinions on this are? I like the Bergara Premier LRP but don’t think it comes in lefty. Also the Bad Rock South Fork (which I believe is a production rifle made by Defiance) which does comes in lefty but not sure I could get one over here:

https://badrockrifles.com/

Or...am I just better off getting a semi-custom trued-up donor Remy 700 with a Sassen barrel and Mcmillian stock and tuned trigger from a reputable gunsmith? Or would that also be significantly more expensive than a production rifle?

All thoughts very much appreciated.

 

You haven't mentioned budget for the rifle and for the scope + mounts etc.

Custom rifles can loose a shed load of value as they are, well, custom - meaning specific to your needs and that might not be someone else's 'must have'.

Tikka Tac is very popular for good reasons.  

Hi, I've a spare cast lead bullet sizing die after selling my Westlake

.356 Lee    £15 +  £4 p&p

30 minutes ago, baldie said:

What you have to remember with any bush, is that it will only size and push around the neck material that is there. The inside, and outside of a case neck are never concentric to each other. Bushes work good, they work even better when a clean up skim, simply to remove high spots off the neck, is done.

I love , and use the redding full length S type die. You can set the minimum amount of shoulder bump easily, and have whatever neck tension you wish, via the bush.

I agree, I have found a benefit to just 'cleaning up' the outside of the case on .308.  From new, I neck turn just sufficient to equalise the neck thickness, about .001" removed from typically 0.015" neck thickness, (I use a Redding gauge).

I'm not sold on the need to bump back the case every time on a .308 and as I use only one .308 rifle I only need to chamber that.  I neck-size (not trendy these days).

I've cycled through 100 Lapua cases 12 times: (after 3 reloading cycles I'll anneal and then F/L with minimum bump) - , I've seen no chambering issues at all.  Because I neck size with a collet die I don't move the brass around much by drawing up material as in a F/L operation and I get excellent low run-outs from assembled rounds.

For .338 I anneal everytime and use a bushing die to bump back as if I try to neck-size only I get a tight bolt on closing.  As said earlier I use a mandrel to set neck tension.

I use a Redding "S" die for .338, I remove the expander ball but I use a separate expander die after knocking back the shoulders 2' and resizing the neck.  That gives me excellent repeatable neck tension (annealed Lapua brass only).  I have lapped the mandrel to achieve a polished finish at a dimension that works for me.

2 hours ago, Roy W said:

Thats the reason you'll never see a National Police Service because there are 43 Chief Officer teams, 43 Procurement Depts, 43 IT Depts, 43 everything and none of them are going to champion almagamation and reduce to 1 of each, no matter how large!

 

 

 

apart from the amalgamated firearms depts of Staffs & West Midlands 😁    But I get your drift and agree

Excellent ! Thanks for posting those BB69

well that was a fulsome and detailed exchange of views!  Not sure we actually achieved anything from it though 😁

29 minutes ago, Gluv said:

I know , it's normally your left wing communist politics everyone disagrees with !😂

Mind you , you are starting to see the light !  Am I right, am I right ?! 🤔😂

Gluv 🇬🇧

you're very right indeed 😉😁

12 minutes ago, Gluv said:

So nobody else likes SA80 then ? 😂

 

Gluv🇬🇧

Just you it seems !  "Look, there's my boy Gluv, he's the only one in step!"

4 minutes ago, Catch-22 said:

Personally I wouldn’t JB paste it. Sure it’s firecracked but using the polishing compound will only widen your bore diameter (albeit minutely), which will alter the bullet to bore pressure seal created.

Just why bother to worry? The gun still shoots fine. And you know the barrel is a consumable part that will eventually have to be replaced. Why spend time ruining what’s left of the throat, when you could focus energies on other more important things? Be safe in the knowledge that you can pick the gun up again after all this COVID19 rubbish and still shoot small groups.

☝️👍

"RWS Rifle Match" (my favourite in CZ455) is subsonic (just) but there's a new addition "Rifle Match S" which is just over, going sub after <50m.  Seems counter intuitive to do that

I see RWS do reloading components - bullets, cases, primers etc.   Does anyone have any experience of these ?

I too thought the SA80 was a heap of crap when I first encountered it.  Thankfully (I'm kidding) my personal weapon was an SMG !  I never got to see or shoot the later revised models of SA80.

I loved my SLR but after training we only got to carry them about and stamp our feet doing rifle drill - except for once a year shooting qualification at the range.  The best bit about the SMG was it was small and light and easy to carry - maybe we could have a .22WMR version of that 😂

A .22WMR LMG would be nice - I had to lug one of those around Catterick and Sennelager when pretending to be infantry (I much preferred my nice warm Auto 40 wagon doing my Sigs day job)

Just a thought, wasn't the weight of the standard infantry payload because of the increased ammo count?  I thought that was one of the deciding factors behind 5.56 over 7.62 - carry more rounds.

Adrian

very fulsome explanation thanks.  I defer to your detailed knowledge however I feel there was crossed purposes and we were in fact generally agreeing that target shooting club members are free to shoot at any properly operated range without the need for their club to notify the authorities and add those ranges to the club's profile.

2 minutes ago, AJW7088 said:

Yes, if your FAC condition wording did not/does not include the element that says “and only whilst a member of *club1” then the HO and police would not need to be notified of the range use (as your wording does not restrict you to target shooting as a member of a HO Approved Club only).

 

However, and this is where I think I may have been at cross purposes, the OP had not said exactly what their FAC condition says and yours appears to be different from the standard one. My points about the club notifying the use of ranges only applies to an FAC holder who has the condition wording that includes the “only whilst a member of *club1” element.

Adrian

 

 

Adrian, do you have professional knowledge of this matter - ie are you a legal or police professional ?  It would help to understand where you're coming from.

I dispute your interpretation;  as far as I know all target shooters have the wording "only whilst a member of 'club1' etc.."   There's no problem in practice or law regarding a club member shooting at a range not notified by the member's club to the FEO provided it's a lawfully set up and operated range.

1 minute ago, Avian said:

Thanks Adrian,

Mine used to say

"The .308 rifle, sound moderator and ammunition shall be used ONLY for target shooting on ranges suitable for the safe use of that class of firearm and with adequate financial arrangements in place to meet any injury or damage claim."

I need to check what it says now after a recent renewal as the 308 id also down for stalking and only my .338 is just for target now.

The whilst a member if a club bit would be difficult in court to enforce as use only on that clubs ranges as it does not state in your wording that the ranges have to be club ranges. 

The condition is that you can only shoot whilst a member of a club, so if your membership is current you meet that criteria and that you have insurance in place to cover injury or damage, so BASC or other insurance should cover you, no ?

So if one was a member of a club and shooting on ones own range then one would still meet the wording of the FAC condition.  If they meant it to be only on that clubs ranges surly it would state that clearly on the condition.

How do people manage if they go to a range such as the tunnel one, https://www.thetunnel.co.uk/

One does not have to be a member of their club to shoot there or arrange it through your own club.

 

I believe yours is the correct interpretation

1 minute ago, Mattnall said:

The HO do not approve civilian ranges, neither the MoD nor the NRA approve civilian ranges.

From what I understand the range operator approves the ranges after taking advice and guidance from any source he deems fit (JSP403, NRA, NSRA, etc).

The condition you state seems to be more and more prevalent these days on FACs I see replacing the one that mentions Approved Ranges (not HO approved), probably reflecting the lack of MoD Approval for civilian ranges now that they don't do it.

This is correct.  What I do believe though is that range construction & operation will be a hot issue if tested in court,  eg the insurance company disputes the safety of the range in construction or in operation.  Some ranges I've been to would never satisfy any NRA or Military standards and the court would take a view as to the competence of the design and operation should a serious issue result in action.  IMHO it's an unholy mess created unintentionally by cost cutting in the MoD.

4 minutes ago, AJW7088 said:

The HO Approved Club is subject to separate conditions in order to maintain its Approval.  One of the conditions is that the Club must notify the Home Office and the police of all of the ranges it uses or intends to use.  The condition is usually worded;

IMPORTANT NOTE

The Secretary of State and the Chief Officer of police MUST be notified if:-

a.    the club loses its range(s), or intends to use an alternative or additional range; 

The effect is that before a club member can shoot on a new/additional range, then the club must notify the Home Office and the police (the condition wording is "intends to").  This is because the police then have a power of entry and inspection for that range (s15(7) Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988).

So, if the holder of an FAC granted with the club related target shooting condition (for some if not all of the rifles held) wishes to shoot on a private range that the club has not already notified to the Home Office and police then the club must make that notification (for which a fee may now be payable). The safe construction and appropriate insurance arrangements must be in place and the FAC holder must satisfy themselves as to that.  The HO provided guidance on those subjects by way of a Circular some while ago (HO Circular 31 of 2006).  There is therefore a little more than checking the range is properly built and insured, if the FAC holder has the target shooting condition, but the basic premise is correct, the Home Office do not inspect and approve ranges.

I hope that helps,

Adrian

 

Hi Adrian

I think the interpretation of  "a.    the club loses its range(s), or intends to use an alternative or additional range; "  is not what you go onto say regarding the individual club member shooting at other ranges.

The clause you refer to is regarding the club's HO approval only.  To be an HO Approved club the club must have access to ranges and notify the FEO of the same.  This demonstrates the club has actually got somewhere to shoot.  A change of ranges or additional ranges by the club is not the same as an individual member shooting away from the club.

It does not prevent an individual club member shooting on any other suitable range within the definition.  I think if I understand you correctly you are suggesting that a club must notify the FEO of all and any ranges members wish to use?  That's not the case IMO and many people who shoot in competitions do so away from their club 'home' ranges.  For example, I may shoot at Kingsbury in a comp. but our club does not list Kingsbury anywhere as a "club" range.   This is the whole point of the Safe Shooters Card - it's a passport to prove competence.

What I think you're suggesting is also at odds with shooting at Bisley, our HO Approval does not list Bisley as a range(s) used bu our club (although it is implied by being affiliated)

Have I understood you correctly?

1 hour ago, Brillo said:

Like Pops said this will be the attitude of many. Over the past 3 weeks I’ve got used to giving people a wide berth, even those I’ve know for years. It’s going to take a while for us to adjust to being closer.

not me 😀

22 minutes ago, Countryboy said:

Hi everyone,

Been reading all the topics on here the last few months, watching videos on YouTube and getting out and practicing as much as I can. Been shooting just over 10 years now mainly shotgun (had my SGC 12 years), a bit of rifle stuff but only just got my own FAC about 6 months back after saying to myself for years about getting round to getting it sorted. I was lucky enough to be a gamekeeper for a couple of years in the uk and abroad so have been lucky enough to experience lots of shooting. 

Anyways, I got my FAC granted for 22lr, 17hmr and .243. I was well chuffed, went straight out and bought myself a 17hmr and have been loving it. I work/live on a farm so I'm lucky enough to get out a fair bit. 

Now enough of my jabbering! I like the idea of joining a club to meet up with like minded enthusiasts, enjoy some good sport and get out of the house a bit more! I'm based in kent and have found a few clubs online but wondered which ones people recommended and I guessed there might even be some members on here too! I know what with the current coronovirus lockdown it might not be happening anytime soon but il be keen as mustard as soon as everything is back on track again!

Sorry for the long post but thanks for any replys 👍👌

Welcome to the forum Countryboy!  If you want to get into target shooting, a good club will sort you out.  Best of luck and let's hope we can all get out sooner than later

If you're shooting and don't need to range with your scope or to measure poi to poa with the reticle then FFP is not really required.  I'll assume you don't need to range  - laser range finders do the job way better.

An FFP reticle 'grows' with magnification so the cross hairs and hash marks become thicker, this can obscure the aiming point.  If you're shooting standard targets from standard distances the dimensions of the target rings will give you all the correction you require by back calculating the inches (cm) of error against distance (eg 6" miss at 600yds = 1moa) so a SFP will be sufficient (with the benefit of a fine aiming mark reticle).

I use SFP for all target shooting when using McQueen or F Class target faces.  Nice simple dot reticle on my NF comp.

I use a FFP when shooting out past 1200yds on steel targets with no visible markings to gauge from.  An FFP will allow me to watch fall of shot and adjust by measuring with the reticle (this can be done on a SFP but only at one fixed magnification).  I can dial the observed error direct without faffing around with the magnification.  The thicker reticle is a compromise but worth it for that.

I did have a Vortex PST FFP but I found the reticle very thick at 25x magnification.  My S&B P4F is significantly better.  It was a 1st Gen Vortex so 2nd Gen may well be better.

The best thing anyone buying a scope can do is look through them