How Clean is clean??

[Miseryguts]

Hi, I wonder if I am being too picky here. attached pic shows first patch through 223 barrel and the 26th through same. Now I don't think #26 is clean or is it?

This after only 20 shots through barrel. Is my technique wrong? Am I expecting too much?

Atb Miseryguts

[VarmLR]

Looks like a little carbon left (brownish colour).  What's your cleaning regime?  I often find that any slight carbon signs are often from the leade area possible as the patch is never as tight fitting there as for the lands/rifling.  I find that applying KG1 and leaving it for at least half an hour, followed by wet patching several times often removes this last stubborn bit of carbon deposit.

[Catch-22]

Looks to be carbon fouling - don't see the famous 'blue streak' you get with ammonia based copper cleaners.

What cleaner are you using? 

Personally I never clean to bare steel, I prefer to clean just enough copper out of the barrel to bring accuracy back in line again - keeping an equilibrium of fouling if you will. With that in mind, I'd say that's pretty clean.

Other views may differ.

As an aside, I've read/seen other extreme long range shooters only use Ballistol or similar cleaners to only remove the carbon - leaving the copper untouched. They believe that copper will self regulate (bullet takes some out but leaves some in the barrel for the next bullet). Their view is that the carbon is the stuff you want to get shot of (pardon the pun).

[Catch-22]

Another thought is the carbon could be from the chamber, not the barrel per se. Do you use a bore guide? Do you mop your chamber out and in front of your lugs? Those will get carbon/sooty after a while.

Not cleaning the lugs can also lead to scratching or galling them. Cleaning and then applying a thin film of grease will stop this and is best done after cleaning your barrel.

[Miseryguts]

21 minutes ago, Catch-22 said:

Looks to be carbon fouling - don't see the famous 'blue streak' you get with ammonia based copper cleaners.

What cleaner are you using? 

Personally I never clean to bare steel, I prefer to clean just enough copper out of the barrel to bring accuracy back in line again - keeping an equilibrium of fouling if you will. With that in mind, I'd say that's pretty clean.

Other views may differ.

As an aside, I've read/seen other extreme long range shooters only use Ballistol or similar cleaners to only remove the carbon - leaving the copper untouched. They believe that copper will self regulate (bullet takes some out but leaves some in the barrel for the next bullet). Their view is that the carbon is the stuff you want to get shot of (pardon the pun).

 

18 minutes ago, Catch-22 said:

Another thought is the carbon could be from the chamber, not the barrel per se. Do you use a bore guide? Do you mop your chamber out and in front of your lugs? Those will get carbon/sooty after a while.

Not cleaning the lugs can also lead to scratching or galling them. Cleaning and then applying a thin film of grease will stop this and is best done after cleaning your barrel.

Hi, thanks for replies - I use Napier Gun Clean on a patch to start, then dry patches for say 5-10 run throughs, then another wet patch, and dry patches til clean. Every now and then I scrub with a bronze brush in between. To Clean the leade I use an oversize(wont go into barrel) wet patch on the jag - never seen much on that. Bolt lugs are cleaned with Q tips every time out. Don't often use the ammonia based stuff, I sometimes use 009 or Hoppes Bench rest or Butch's Bore shine when the mood takes me(not often these days!)

Atb M

[TJC]

26 times ??  Please stop. 

Watch this and learn from the best in the business. 

 

[Grum87]

A phosphor bronze brush will greatly speed up cleaning, however unless you've got a very, very finely honed barrel, I wouldn't go chasing everything out of it.

 

If you're finding it takes a few shots for accuracy or zero to return to what you expect of it, you're over cleaning.

 

One of my rifle barrels will run beyond 250 rounds before cleaning, infact I've never found out at what point accuracy tapers off, because I've always chickened out. Cleaning after 20 rounds for anything bar benchrest is utter madness.

 

And even then it's perhaps madness - but it's the accepted norm.

[Catch-22]

34 minutes ago, TJC said:

26 times ??  Please stop. 

Watch this and learn from the best in the business. 

 

I tend to agree and follow a similar process to George. If you've got a top barrel that's been lapped properly, you just don't need to be scrubbing. 

[cooter]

I don't do any competitions, and target shooting for me is just for practice or used for developing new loads.

For many years I used to clean each CF with a brush and solvent after every use and the grouping was always consistent.

After reading all I could, and listening to others, I changed to just removing the loose powder, with a pull though or dry patch, and wiping down the outside when it got wet or overly dirty. End result was it grouped noticeably better.

I still give them a strip down and deep clean once a year, or more if the groups open up, but don't waste time brushing the life out of the barrels every time anymore.

[bradders]

18 hours ago, TJC said:

 

Watch this and learn from the best in the business. 

 

[RePete]

You really can't tell how clean a barrel is from looking at a dry patch, only how clean the patch is.............

Only a borescope can show you how copper and carbon free your barrel is.

RePete

 

[Montey]

It's truly a case of what works for which barel my two 308s 223 2-250 ( Dolphin) and my .17 Hmr work well with wipe out or KG products.My 243 and 204 go all over the place with Wipe out but shoot well with KG cleaners.