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Towsey

What's happened to these subs?

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Hi all

 

I see that eley are/have changed, among others, their .22 hollow point subs...38 grain, new box etc etc...

 

However...I'm still using the 40 grainers in the green boxes as are a couple of my mates, anyway, one of these mates rang me the other day to ask if I'd noticed that the bullets had changed but were still in the old boxes, I hadn't. I had just bought some more tho so I opened a box from the batch I just bought and compared them to some I already had, and sure enough they are different. The bullets are shorter, looking lighter, and the ones I have have a bit of a casting mark down one side of them. Definitely different to how they have been for years but I have not had chance to get out with 22 since the call to try them both.

 

I was just wondering if anyone else has found this, or if anyone has noticed a change in these rounds for no apparent reason? Also, has anyone tried the ones in the new boxes yet, I'm interested to see what their like

 

Thanks

 

Towsey

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Well I managed to squeeze a few shots in with the 22 this evening to try the 'new rounds in the old box'.

 

I fired a few of the original ones first to see how we were performing and all was normal so I plinked a few of the what I presume are the new rounds but being cheekily smuggled in by the old boxes before hitting the targets.

 

I only managed to get 5 rounds @50yds and 10 @100yds before dark and what I found was that I could not tell any difference in noise from behind the rifle in the field I was in, but my 50yd group was not quite as tight with the new rounds as with the old ones, nor was my 100yd group. There was not much in it and the new point of impact was very slightly lower in both cases with the new rounds but it looks like eley have tried to mirror performance but with a lighter bullet sort of thing.

 

Others may have different experiences but this was mine tonight...I hope this is of help or interest for someone

 

Towsey

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...if anyone has noticed a change in these rounds for no apparent reason?

 

I ran about 1,500 rounds of Eley Subs through my Sako Finnfire Varmint with excellent results. On the next "brick" of 500, accuracy took a radical downturn as described here (at post #128).

 

I now use SK Subs, and I'm back to ½" groups at 50m.

 

maximus otter

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Ah it worked

 

On the top pic- the left round and batch number is the original (good) ones and the right side is the newer type I presume are being phased in but in the old boxes for now. I'm guessing but don't know that these are wots in the new boxes as well but I don't have any of those yet

 

On the bottom pic- the group above the line is the original type, and below the line are the new ones. This is at 50yds (don't know why they had shifted left but their back where they belong now), and I just threw the ruler on to give you an idea

 

I hope this comes in useful sometime and if anyone can fill in any gaps...

 

Towsey

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Yeah that's wot makes me think they are the new 38 grain bullets

 

You boys might already know about this but I've found an 'eley lot analyser'...I don't know how to put links up but just type that into google and it tells you about your batch of ammo, apparently both my batches are the same new type ha

 

Towsey

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Bought some more Eley subs the other day and was unaware they had changed bullet spec etc,,,,  the lot I have bought are truly awful and at best can only group them into two inches at 60 yards wheras the old stuff I cant remember ever having a duff lot and would pretty much do a thumbnail most of the time at this range.For the time being I,m back on the match stuff,,,hang the cost!!!

Me being me I pulled a few bullets and they are no where near 38 grains and on my reloading scales they hover around 35.5 --36 g !! Why has Eley made these changes anyone know?,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,O

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1 hour ago, onehole said:

 

 Why has Eley made these changes anyone know?,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,O

I'm sure it's to cut costs - to give the absolute minimum quality at the maximum cost they can get away with.

Shaving 3 grains of lead off a million bullets will save about 1/4 tonne of lead. At about £2,000 at tonne that's £500 quid, hardly seems worth the effort, but why change a wining formula.

For all the research and development that is supposedly going on I think there has been very little, if any improvement in accuracy in Eley , and .22RF in general, over the last 30 years. I believe the consensus, among prone match shooters, is that .22 Eley match ammunition peaked some time in the 1990's

 

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I'm really disappointed to find out that they've stopped making the 40gr Subs. They were amazing in my CZ452 and I've only got 100 rounds left 

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I bought a few hundred of the usual eley extra hollows several months back and they are absalute crap.i missed a few times and knew strait away something was wrong.they struggled to hold 2 inches at 60yds.ive always used them as I found they were always the best in my cz452.i switched over to Winnie subs after trying them the sk's and rws subs as they shot best.now I am finding the Winnies don' extract on a regular basis.not sure what to do with the crap box' of the eleys I have.the shop  i bought them from may swap them.

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It's bad news that's for sure. I'm down into my last 100 of the good ones same as Elliot and then it's onto the crap. I think wotever they will save in cost it will cost them in sales. I did find an email address one day but I didn't send anything, it's not the sort of thing I'm good at...but would anyone be willing to get in touch with them and put our points across, if enough people have been in touch they might change back, maybe! That would be better than everyone having to go through the motions and find the next best thing for their rifles 

or if anyone has a good relationship with their rfd they could see if they have taken a hit in sales or ask if anyone has mentioned it to them or even if they will speak to eley. I get on well with 2 different places and I will mention it when I next see them 

Cheers

towsey

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I’ve been using eley and rws for years, but now I’m just using rws for the same reasons. The eleys just don’t seem to be as good as they used to be. 

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Agree.  Original Greens excellent.  The new 38gn's are UTTER shite.  Dried rabbit that which promotes growth and vigour shoots better than these.  Sorry Eley, read all the forums, you've cocked up here.

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Oh is this being talked about elsewhere as well, I'm not on any other forums

 

is there anything we can do to increase our chances of getting the good old rounds back???

 

towsey 

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I have just spoken to Eley. . .   It is interesting the new version does not group as well as the old.  Interestingly, Eley Match works much better than the more expensive Tenex, but Force in my CZ is terrible

 

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3 hours ago, David Hancock said:

I have just spoken to Eley. . .   It is interesting the new version does not group as well as the old.  Interestingly, Eley Match works much better than the more expensive Tenex, but Force in my CZ is terrible

 

So what did Eley have to say ?

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They wanted my batch numbers - sent.  This together with my note of disappointment on the new 38grainers. 

I do not foresee any change really as they have produced zillions and have capital investment in equipment - just like 17HMR situation.  

Shame as the 40gn subs were good.  Don't understand companies sometimes.

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I've been using Eley subs for years, probably over 20.  The new ones I got last summer are absolute shite.  As others have said, I'm used to getting <1"  5 shot groups at 50 yds, and in most cases, one ragged hole.  The new ones were all over the place - up to 3" groups IIRC.  For the first time in years, I had a few wounded rabbits so I stopped using them.  

See I'm not alone.....  Massive fail by Eley on this one.

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The 38's are here to stay.

I have been advised to try Contacts at 42gns.  The Match actually group very well in my CZ - under an inch at 90 metres.

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When I first started with 22LR in the mid 80s I used Eley SSHPs to good effect in a bolt action rifle, these were 38gr  from memory,  Then Winchester and Magtach came along with a 40 gr SSHP with a large cavity,  I could not see much difference so used the latter on a cost basis.

Then I changed the rifle to a semi,  the 40s did not cycle well so I moved back to the Eley 38s which worked well.   Then Eley moved to 40s so I changed again.     Looks like they are coming full circle, again.

 

A

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So what subs are we using in the cz452's that shoot the best.the Winnie 42gr subs I switched to are ok but they are pretty noisey where they must be nearing the speed of sound.i am nearly out of these and ready to try something else.the Winnies did shoot better than the rws and one other brand I tried.

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I used (again) the new Eley 38gn subs, and the DO NOT group as well as the previous 40;s no matter what Eley claim.  Eley Match are very accurate but more noisy.  I have been advised Fiocchi - if I can get them,  CCI's I find are inconsistent

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