varminting abroad

[TonyH]

I enjoy my UK varmint hunting, but many of my best varminting memories are to do with the couple of trips I've made to Ontario, hunting groundhogs with a friend there. Those here who are fellow members of the (US) Varmint Hunters Association will see, whenever it gets published in The Varmint Hunter magazine, a feature by me on my most recent trip in 2009 when I was accompanied by my son. That's a story in itself; but apart from a load of pro material that I've been scanning (periodically I delve into my old pre-digital stuff and find yet more I need to scan, laborious task!) I came across my pics from 1997, the first Canada trip. These were shot on medium-format neg material so I just cut down some of them to 35mm format and ran them through my Minolta 5400 scanner - example attached, showing me without the grey hair I now sport! Rifle is a Rem 700VS in 22-250 (exactly the same as the new one currently listed here in For Sale...) topped with a Leupold Vari-X III 6.5-20x40 and running my handload with around 36gr of Varget, Fed210M primer, WW brass, Hornady V-Max 55gr. The dead guy reclining on a fencepost is one of 74 groundhogs I bagged in six days, which I know was extremely good by US standards at the time - they obviously never heard about Ontario, groundhog heaven!

 

By last year the groundhogs had declined in numbers, in the same area - my friend Henrik doesn't know why exactly (he's shot between 10,000 and 15,000 'hogs in his time) though the advancing coyote population might be part of the answer. But the three of us - me, Henrik, my son Oliver - got maybe 25-30 each over a few days, and it was still excellent sport: this time I took my walkaround varminter in .223, a MacMillan-stocked Win Featherweight, while Henrik used his Darrell Holland custom Sako in .243 AI and Oliver an oldish but good Sako 22-250. Here's me & Henrik (he used his wife's rifle, a Rem 700 in 6mm Rem) with a trio of defunct 'hogs (class of 2009), two of which we shot simultaneously after carefully synchronising things - the 'hogs were close together by the same burrow:

 

I think groundhogs are the perfect varmint-hunting quarry, not too small (considerably bigger & tougher than rabbits) but not too big either. My Featherweight is in the process of being rebarrelled into 20 Tactical and I'm longing to carry it again across the Atlantic to zap more 'hogs.

Thought I'd share the pics with you. If anyone else goes varminting in foreign parts it would be really interesting to hear about it.

Tony

[foxing2night]

I enjoy my UK varmint hunting, but many of my best varminting memories are to do with the couple of trips I've made to Ontario, hunting groundhogs with a friend there. Those here who are fellow members of the (US) Varmint Hunters Association will see, whenever it gets published in The Varmint Hunter magazine, a feature by me on my most recent trip in 2009 when I was accompanied by my son. That's a story in itself; but apart from a load of pro material that I've been scanning (periodically I delve into my old pre-digital stuff and find yet more I need to scan, laborious task!) I came across my pics from 1997, the first Canada trip. These were shot on medium-format neg material so I just cut down some of them to 35mm format and ran them through my Minolta 5400 scanner - example attached, showing me without the grey hair I now sport! Rifle is a Rem 700VS in 22-250 (exactly the same as the new one currently listed here in For Sale...) topped with a Leupold Vari-X III 6.5-20x40 and running my handload with around 36gr of Varget, Fed210M primer, WW brass, Hornady V-Max 55gr. The dead guy reclining on a fencepost is one of 74 groundhogs I bagged in six days, which I know was extremely good by US standards at the time - they obviously never heard about Ontario, groundhog heaven!

 

By last year the groundhogs had declined in numbers, in the same area - my friend Henrik doesn't know why exactly (he's shot between 10,000 and 15,000 'hogs in his time) though the advancing coyote population might be part of the answer. But the three of us - me, Henrik, my son Oliver - got maybe 25-30 each over a few days, and it was still excellent sport: this time I took my walkaround varminter in .223, a MacMillan-stocked Win Featherweight, while Henrik used his Darrell Holland custom Sako in .243 AI and Oliver an oldish but good Sako 22-250. Here's me & Henrik (he used his wife's rifle, a Rem 700 in 6mm Rem) with a trio of defunct 'hogs (class of 2009), two of which we shot simultaneously after carefully synchronising things - the 'hogs were close together by the same burrow:

 

I think groundhogs are the perfect varmint-hunting quarry, not too small (considerably bigger & tougher than rabbits) but not too big either. My Featherweight is in the process of being rebarrelled into 20 Tactical and I'm longing to carry it again across the Atlantic to zap more 'hogs.

Thought I'd share the pics with you. If anyone else goes varminting in foreign parts it would be really interesting to hear about it.

Tony

Hi Tony, I will look forward to hear about more of your hunting in the us,,,,

Ground hog shooting must be one of the best hunts that you could ever wish to go on????,

Awesome,,, Keep them coming,,,,

 

All the best from Wales, Darrel

[Chris-NZ]

They're way bigger than the sod poodles (prairie dogs) I've shot in Oklahoma Tony. A full-size "dog" is only about 8" tall sitting up on its haunches and most are a lot smaller so you've got to fire good shots past 200yds in the strong breezes (or worse) that are always present in the Panhandle. Great action though- hundreds of shots per day and bits flying everywhere

 

Looks like I might have to jack up some hog shooting on another visit

 

Chris-NZ

[foxshot]

Great write up must be good to try areas like that for varminting, was it a guided outfitter you were with

[TonyH]

They're way bigger than the sod poodles (prairie dogs) I've shot in Oklahoma Tony. A full-size "dog" is only about 8" tall sitting up on its haunches and most are a lot smaller so you've got to fire good shots past 200yds in the strong breezes (or worse) that are always present in the Panhandle. Great action though- hundreds of shots per day and bits flying everywhere

 

Looks like I might have to jack up some hog shooting on another visit

 

Chris-NZ

Yes Chris, I'd quite like a go at prairie dogs sometime, but I've been reading about them for decades and having sampled groundhog varminting I don't think I'd find PDs quite so rewarding. They're just so small, as you point out - the only ones I've seen were in Paignton Zoo and I was astonished how tiny they were. It's not the difficulty of shooting at them that deters me, just something to do with expending ammo on such a tiny creature - and as you say, often hundreds of rounds in a day...

One day maybe I'll make it to the VHA Jamboree in S.Dakota, and combine it with a PD hunt.

Regards, Tony

[SteveW]

Hi Tony

 

I've been a VHA member for many, many years. It's always a welcome sight when I see it drop through the door. Looking forward to reading your article, your load in your 22-250 was exactly the same as mine in a Sako I used to have......

 

Did you use an outfitter or just shoot on your friends ground?? Bet your son loved it.

 

Thanks for sharing, all the best.

Steve

[nemasis243]

Cracking write up, always wanted to go that side of the pond and have a go at those bugger.

Well done

ATB andy

[TonyH]

Great write up must be good to try areas like that for varminting, was it a guided outfitter you were with

No, these were private visits entirely. My "guide" was my friend in Ontario, who's been hunting groundhogs for years, knows lots of farmers, and has thousands of acres to shoot over. No problem - it's all very relaxed, people are friendly, farmers are delighted with anyone who wants to shoot the damn groundhogs (their large burrows are a real nuisance when it comes to cropping the alfalfa etc), countryside is far less crowded than here, didn't come across any antis - I'd go there every summer, frankly. In fact given the property prices (eyewateringly low by our standards) I'd move there! In 2009 the three of us hunted together, staying in a motel for less than it would cost in UK, had a great time again. Sigh...

Tony

[londonhunter]

No, these were private visits entirely. My "guide" was my friend in Ontario, who's been hunting groundhogs for years, knows lots of farmers, and has thousands of acres to shoot over. No problem - it's all very relaxed, people are friendly, farmers are delighted with anyone who wants to shoot the damn groundhogs (their large burrows are a real nuisance when it comes to cropping the alfalfa etc), countryside is far less crowded than here, didn't come across any antis - I'd go there every summer, frankly. In fact given the property prices (eyewateringly low by our standards) I'd move there! In 2009 the three of us hunted together, staying in a motel for less than it would cost in UK, had a great time again. Sigh...

Tony

 

Hi Tony

 

I now live in London but have property in metro Toronto Area and also a hunting lodge in North Bay. I have unrestricted FAC in Canada. I have spent many summers of what you have described and I understand exactly what you are trying to express in your post.

 

Farmers are friendly and have NO issues with a total stranger pull up one minute and start shooting groundhogs on their land within 30 minutes. Land is plentiful and there are no issues with noise either. After all you are doing them a favor ? RIGHT ?

 

I usually return the favour by buying boot loads of farm produce or maple syrup plus a small tip for the farm hands.

 

I have plans to ship my collection to Canada (not US) when I retire

I dream of a retirement home whereby I can shoot a thousands yards from my bedroom probably from my wheelchair when I am old and infirm... hahah

 

Are you going back to ontario in the near future ?

 

My cabin in North Bay is always rented out every season but I am going to use up my moose tag and bear tag next year. Its about time. I am sick of this muntjac masking as BEAST business.

[eric]

Hi Tony

I to am a member of V H A a very good mag. I had some photos of a nights foxing in it about 4-5 years ago

 

I also went on a coyote hunt in eastern Washington state in 07 with my brother who has lived in the states since 1977.

On the first day we saw about 6or 7 coyotes but no chance of a shot, but later on in the evening of the first day around 5 or 6 oclock my guide called in a male coyote. which I got off the top of an old fence post 218yds. The head mount sits above me as I type this I was walking on air even more so when I told my brother as he could not be bothered to come with us ( to lazy I think ) I just had a feeling that I was going to get one.

One of the greatest memories I have. I shall never forget the sight of him through the scope I thought christ he.s big more like an alsation. I used a Tikka 243 70gr nosler bt.

I hope to go again next year.

Eric

[foxshot]

Sounds like there is some fantastic shooting to be had over the pond,how do you go about it if you dont know anyone over there and what sort of expence would it turn out to be

[TonyH]

....I have plans to ship my collection to Canada (not US) when I retire

I dream of a retirement home whereby I can shoot a thousands yards from my bedroom probably from my wheelchair when I am old and infirm... hahah

 

Are you going back to ontario in the near future ?...

As soon as I can! If not 2011 then 2012 surely - I like it, not just the varminting but the spaciousness, the relaxed atmosphere compared with England. I was hunting 'hogs in wide open farmland that was quieter than anywhere I've been in UK except for parts of the Highlands, but it wasn't much more than 100 miles from the cultural, cosmopolitan delights of Toronto, interesting city.

Yup, that's my kind of retirement home! Good luck with it. Is your North Bay place close to the water? Do you fish as well? I still haven't managed to get any Canadian fishing done, but one day...

Tony

[TonyH]

Hi Tony

I to am a member of V H A a very good mag. I had some photos of a nights foxing in it about 4-5 years ago

Well done - my first piece in TVH was about my first Ontario trip and it was published in one of the 1998 issues I think, can't find it. There are often the odd one or two pics in the members' pic section showing Brit members, usually with foxes - I don't know how many UK members there are but must be a few, like you and Steve in Dorset.

 

I also went on a coyote hunt in eastern Washington state in 07 with my brother who has lived in the states since 1977.

On the first day we saw about 6or 7 coyotes but no chance of a shot, but later on in the evening of the first day around 5 or 6 oclock my guide called in a male coyote. which I got off the top of an old fence post 218yds. The head mount sits above me as I type this I was walking on air even more so when I told my brother as he could not be bothered to come with us ( to lazy I think ) I just had a feeling that I was going to get one.

One of the greatest memories I have. I shall never forget the sight of him through the scope I thought christ he.s big more like an alsation. I used a Tikka 243 70gr nosler bt.

I hope to go again next year.

Eric

Great, I'd love to have a crack myself - I briefly corresponded with a guy in Nebraska but nothing came of it. Shortly after my trip last year, my Ontario friend took an American buddy from just across the border in Michigan back to the groundhog fields to look for coyotes and he managed to bag one, though I never saw any myself. When we visited this guy previously, in the outskirts of Detroit, we admired his late-model Corvette (cleanest car I've ever seen, spotless!), his numerous big-game trophies, and his loading room, big as most people's living rooms...

 

Hi Tony

I've been a VHA member for many, many years. It's always a welcome sight when I see it drop through the door. Looking forward to reading your article, your load in your 22-250 was exactly the same as mine in a Sako I used to have......

Did you use an outfitter or just shoot on your friends ground?? Bet your son loved it.

Steve

And another VHA member turns up! Hi Steve - yes, my son was 16 last summer and he loved it over there, including our trip to Cabela's in Dundee MI just down the pike from Detroit. Only had a couple of hours there and I could have spent two days...

Regards, Tony

[londonhunter]

As soon as I can! If not 2011 then 2012 surely - I like it, not just the varminting but the spaciousness, the relaxed atmosphere compared with England. I was hunting 'hogs in wide open farmland that was quieter than anywhere I've been in UK except for parts of the Highlands, but it wasn't much more than 100 miles from the cultural, cosmopolitan delights of Toronto, interesting city.

Yup, that's my kind of retirement home! Good luck with it. Is your North Bay place close to the water? Do you fish as well? I still haven't managed to get any Canadian fishing done, but one day...

Tony

You bet by the water and with great view of sunset and sunrise and if lucky northern lights once in the last 08 years

I dont fish yet but thats part of my retirement plan when I cannot carry that rusty stick up the hills anymore but for the moment i like to tackle the angry stuff first then the quiet stuff when I cannot do it anymore

[Andrew]

Yes Chris, I'd quite like a go at prairie dogs sometime, but I've been reading about them for decades and having sampled groundhog varminting I don't think I'd find PDs quite so rewarding. They're just so small, as you point out - the only ones I've seen were in Paignton Zoo and I was astonished how tiny they were. It's not the difficulty of shooting at them that deters me, just something to do with expending ammo on such a tiny creature - and as you say, often hundreds of rounds in a day...

One day maybe I'll make it to the VHA Jamboree in S.Dakota, and combine it with a PD hunt.

Regards, Tony

 

We expend ammunition on prairiedogs because of their destructive nature and perennial breeding. As someone who shoots them for sport I can recognize the challenge they give shooters but I never forget that they are shot to preserve grass land that will be turned into barren waste if the dogs had their way. I shoot about 1000 dogs a year and barely put a dent in the population of the small town near my home. Tourist shooters often overlook the fact that these are a very destructive creature... and a darned sight harder to hit than marmots! JMHO, of course.~Andrew

[TonyH]

We expend ammunition on prairiedogs because of their destructive nature and perennial breeding. As someone who shoots them for sport I can recognize the challenge they give shooters but I never forget that they are shot to preserve grass land that will be turned into barren waste if the dogs had their way. I shoot about 1000 dogs a year and barely put a dent in the population of the small town near my home. Tourist shooters often overlook the fact that these are a very destructive creature... and a darned sight harder to hit than marmots! JMHO, of course.~Andrew

Andrew, I know how destructive they are, and that if varmint hunters didn't thin their numbers then landowners would probably just use poison - nasty... I was just expressing a personal opinion about the kind of live quarry I like to shoot at. I've read much interesting stuff in TVH about the many shooters who pursue the even smaller ground squirrels of various sorts, often with very small-calibre centrefires like .17 Ackley, and I'm sure that's fun too. In fact, for reasons it might be complicated to explain, that comparatively short range stuff pursuing ground squirrels with little calibres appeals more than zapping PDs out on the prairie, using .223.... Varmint Al has some good stuff on his site about this.

I knew a South African once, fellow club member, who used to shoot what he called "dassies" back in SA and I think these are sort of PD sized critters, maybe a bit bigger, certainly the same kind of varminting; and I knew someone else who had a varmint rifle built in 6.5mm to take to SA for baboons, which would be great varminting. Then again, years ago a friend in Oz kept trying to get me out to Tasmania, where my research suggested they did lots of varminting for some local groundhog-sized pest, forget what they were. Wish I'd gone there. Dunno if anyone on this forum has ever hunted these but it would be interesting to hear about it.

Regards, Tony

[british bulldog]

I've been a member of the VHA for many years,and went praire dog shooting for ten days back in 2003 in South Dakota.I now have one of my main shooting pals living in Kansas and am planning a coyote and bobcat hunt next year.

One of the things you need in most states in the US to shoot is a Hunter Education card,you need this before you can buy any hunting licence,these are to show you have done some sort of safety training but if you have DS1&DS2 these count.

I've got my HEC already so if any members need advice how to get one let me know.

BB

[Chris-NZ]

.... Tasmania, ... some local groundhog-sized pest, forget what they were...

 

Rabbits probably Tony :lol:

Can't think what they'd be as I'm relatively familiar with most Aussie fauna. Not some mini wallaby maybe??

 

Back to prairie dogs- the last one I saw was during a recent Route 66 bike trip. Twenty two Harleys pulled up to a busy intersection in rush hour (in New Mexico I think) and here was a cheeky one sitting on his haunches on his mound no more than 8 feet off the roadside! Totally unconcerned with all the noise and traffic and the burrow was bordered on the other side by some sort of commercial yard. They're obviously very adapatable.

 

Chris-NZ

[TonyH]

I've been a member of the VHA for many years,and went praire dog shooting for ten days back in 2003 in South Dakota.I now have one of my main shooting pals living in Kansas and am planning a coyote and bobcat hunt next year.

One of the things you need in most states in the US to shoot is a Hunter Education card,you need this before you can buy any hunting licence,these are to show you have done some sort of safety training but if you have DS1&DS2 these count.

I've got my HEC already so if any members need advice how to get one let me know.

BB

Interesting, another Brit VHA member! Every country has its paperwork demands for shooters, it seems. To apply for an Ontario visitor's temporary small-game licence (this is the one that covers varmints such as groundhogs) I had to show a "hunting licence" - no such thing in UK of course, so prior to my first trip I got (for the first time in my life) a Game Licence, now defunct of course, which proved perfectly acceptable. Subsequently I just showed my previous Ontario visitor's licence. Starting in 2009 anyone wishing to hunt there will also need an Outdoor Card, relatively cheap compared with the actual hunting licence which cost nearly a hundred bucks. Get Card & licence from a branch of Service Ontario, plus one or two other places, quick & friendly, while you wait. And before flying, download the RCMP Firearms Form 909, print and complete it, to show on landing in Canada with a firearm - this also enables you to buy ammo if you want. The bureaucracy proved very straightforward and quick for me, much easier than here.

Coyotes & bobcats sounds like a great combo, so good luck with that - and post pictures here next year!

Regards, Tony

[TonyH]

Rabbits probably Tony :lol:

Can't think what they'd be as I'm relatively familiar with most Aussie fauna. Not some mini wallaby maybe??

...

Chris-NZ

Definitely weren't rabbits Chris. On reflection, I'm pretty certain they were either wombats, or possums, and checking just now suggested both these are agricultural pests and in some places at least can be hunted.

Suchlike critters remind me that years ago there was quite a serious pest in Eastern England, the Coypu, introduced from South America, and there was a bounty (I think) for killing them. Now those things would have made very good long-range targets for a 22-250..... I wonder if anyone here is from those parts, and remembers them?

Tony

[eric]

Hi Tony. I too have paid a vist to Cabelas. it was in Sidney Nabraska 04. Joan and I stayed in a motel and spent two days looking round Cabelas . When some of the staff found out we had walked over from the motel they sent for a bus to take us back,and to pick us up the next day I made a cd of the time I spent in the store. The size of the place takes some beliving.

The hospitality of the people is just unbeliveable we where picked up from Denver airport and droped right on the doorstep of the motel a journey of 200 miles and taken back to the airport two days later all for 160 dollars.

The scenery to say the least was out standing to be able to see for miles without a house or tree that says it all.

To go back to my coyote hunt, when I next went out the ranchers son who is a professional guide in Idaho showed me one of the most wonderful sights I will ever see and that was the dessert sky at night To see so many stars in such a dark sky took my breath away .We went on to hunt coons with hounds in the dark ( they are mad ) they where running

over ground that was so

 

uneven a tank would have found it hard going. A sad end to this story a few days later the guide lost his best hound to a rattler bite.So after that it was open season on rattlers when ever he got the chance.

It was also a little strange to drive down a road with your rifle out of the window of the truck incase of a chance shot at a cotoye,and to see signs one one side saying no hunting allowed while on the other side signs saying feel free to hunt.

When I asked about the no hunting thinking it must be a anti or a private shoot the guide said no they just liked it that way, and anyway it did not aply to coyote. Eric

[Chris-NZ]

Definitely weren't rabbits Chris. On reflection, I'm pretty certain they were either wombats, or possums, ..

 

They DEF wouldn't be shooting wombats Tony- bugger all of them and they're highly protected. Unlikely it's possums as they're strictly nocturnal. Us Kiwis laugh at the reverence Australians have towards possums. We blast the snot out of them here at every opportunity. Possums were originally introduced to NZ from Aussie to create a fur trade, and they've become a serious problem, eating native bush and more recently being a vector for bovine TB. The local Regional Council has spent tens of millions in the last 5 years controlling them with 1080 and it's knocked hell out of the numbers. My main deer place used to be lousy with them but have only seen one (which copped a round from the 7-08) in the last two years.

 

 

Chris-NZ

[Andrew]

Andrew, I know how destructive they are, and that if varmint hunters didn't thin their numbers then landowners would probably just use poison - nasty... I was just expressing a personal opinion about the kind of live quarry I like to shoot at. I've read much interesting stuff in TVH about the many shooters who pursue the even smaller ground squirrels of various sorts, often with very small-calibre centrefires like .17 Ackley, and I'm sure that's fun too. In fact, for reasons it might be complicated to explain, that comparatively short range stuff pursuing ground squirrels with little calibres appeals more than zapping PDs out on the prairie, using .223.... Varmint Al has some good stuff on his site about this.

I knew a South African once, fellow club member, who used to shoot what he called "dassies" back in SA and I think these are sort of PD sized critters, maybe a bit bigger, certainly the same kind of varminting; and I knew someone else who had a varmint rifle built in 6.5mm to take to SA for baboons, which would be great varminting. Then again, years ago a friend in Oz kept trying to get me out to Tasmania, where my research suggested they did lots of varminting for some local groundhog-sized pest, forget what they were. Wish I'd gone there. Dunno if anyone on this forum has ever hunted these but it would be interesting to hear about it.

Regards, Tony

 

Like these? These are ground squirrels down on the Mexican border. The .22WMR cartidge is for scale.

 

This is my son with one at his feet after a 130 yard shot from that green van with his 17HMR

 

 

Marine PMI, Jr, and I killed hundreds of these squirrels in testing on sweltering 125F degree days.

 

~Andrew

[Chris-NZ]

125F!!! :wacko:

Us Kiwis can't even begin to imagine that- 95F is about the worst we have here. I experienced just over 105 on a recent Route 66 m/cycle trip and that was bad enough, felt like a grease blob. Can't imagine how you can shoot accurately in those temps.

 

Chris-NZ

[TonyH]

They DEF wouldn't be shooting wombats Tony- bugger all of them and they're highly protected. Unlikely it's possums as they're strictly nocturnal. Us Kiwis laugh at the reverence Australians have towards possums. We blast the snot out of them here at every opportunity. Possums were originally introduced to NZ from Aussie to create a fur trade, and they've become a serious problem, eating native bush and more recently being a vector for bovine TB. The local Regional Council has spent tens of millions in the last 5 years controlling them with 1080 and it's knocked hell out of the numbers. My main deer place used to be lousy with them but have only seen one (which copped a round from the 7-08) in the last two years.

Fair enough Chris, I must have got it wrong. Maybe one day I'll remember the critters I was told about, or read about - could it have been something ratlike in appearance, but lots bigger...?

Nice pictures - those possums are a hefty size, similar to good-sized groundhogs. I like "blast the snot out of them", very non-PC!

More pictures from Montana:

Like these? These are ground squirrels down on the Mexican border. The .22WMR cartidge is for scale.

..............................Marine PMI, Jr, and I killed hundreds of these squirrels in testing on sweltering 125F degree days.

~Andrew

Yes, just like those Andrew - little buggers, aren't they... Clearly very good practice hunting them consistently, especially in the wind. As I said, though I prefer somewhat bigger targets, it would still be fun to hunt PDs and ground squirrels some day - though maybe not in the temperatures you describe... I've lost touch with Fahrenheit, dunno what 125 degrees means, but it sounds damn hot! I was in Barcelona recently in temperatures mid-30s Celsius and that's how I like it. Here's another critter-holding pic to add to the collection, my son Oliver in July 2009 with his first groundhog:

 

Regards, Tony