Hydraulic forming dies

[Elwood]

Does anyone here have any experience or opinions of the Hornady hydraulic forming die?

 

http://accurateshooter.wordpress.com/2009/...ic-forming-die/

 

I have spoken to two UKV members and value their opinions but I want to push on with this a little further.

 

From what I can gather it will get a case to roughly 90-95% formed, but if there's a performance difference in the last 5 to 10% then surely it's not practical? unless the performance difference is negligible. I have also read that once you have used the hydraulic die if you then run them through a custom FL die you then have a case that is 99% formed.

 

I know some cases can shoot extremely well while case forming, the 22.250 AI being one of them, but I will be looking to form 6mm Rem AI or 6mm Crusader brass from Winchester 6mmRem cases. The idea of saving powder, primers and bullets is quite appealing.

[1967spud]

i have been down this route Ian and to be honest i gave up in the end as the quality againsta propper fireformed round was noticable

 

 

why not do your fireforming using cream of weat method, i am about to start doing some ackley like this ill report back if you want

[Ronin]

Just wondering on the legalities of having a sacrificial chamber and no barrel beyond the case neck.......

 

 

Would pressure be sufficient to fireform (using C-O- W) ??

[MarinePMI]

I haven't used these dies, so can't comment on their quality or functionality. I was actually working with a company, on making something similar, when Hornady released them (they must've been reading our e-mails)...such is life.

 

The one comment I did want to make or point out, was that these were intended for those of us who live in the city, are short of time, and don't really have the easy means to run out and fireform. It's really just intended to allow you to fireform without wasting powder, bullets and deal with COW all over the place...and the conveinence of perfoming the operation in your home (without alarming the neighbors). While it won't give a 100% form, it is intended to get you close without necessarily over work hardening the brass as well...

 

JMTCW...

[Elwood]

Marine, Andy and Mark thanks for the replies.

 

Mark I would definitely like to hear your results.

 

Andy, you have given me a great idea ( don't have many so don't knock it ) I will have a spare 6mm barrel, I'm now wondering if I get that chambered the same as my new barrel and use it to fire form the brass.

 

I know the Americans do this to fire form brass.

 

I wonder if plod will allow it?

[1967spud]

Marine, Andy and Mark thanks for the replies.

 

Mark I would definitely like to hear your results.

 

Andy, you have given me a great idea ( don't have many so don't knock it ) I will have a spare 6mm barrel, I'm now wondering if I get that chambered the same as my new barrel and use it to fire form the brass.

 

I know the Americans do this to fire form brass.

 

I wonder if plod will allow it?

 

 

the only prob with that Ian i can see is that you have extra wear on the substitute barrell

 

 

the ideal answer i can see is to rechamber a knackered 6mm for fire foriming only then switch the barrel

 

 

will keep you in the loop on the cream methos i am hoping to do a vid on it.l. i just need some brass to reform

[Guest dasherman]

When I did my Dasher I chambered and fitted an old shot out benchrest tube for fireforming only. Used Bullseye with a tissue wad and compressed semolina [couldn't find COW in Tesco's] Worked well after a bit of experimenting to get the correct load, cases came out sharp only downside was getting all the gunk out of the cases as it tended to stick behind the shoulders. Bent bit of wire got it out if done soon after firing. I fired them off down my local smallbore range as it was easier to have the gun on bags on a bench but I got a few looks and coments from "serious" smallbore shooters. Still got the tube somewhere I think if its any use to you Ian.

[20Tac]

Info here about forming 6ppc cases with Bullseye and other methods:

 

http://www.6mmbr.com/6PPC.html

[Elwood]

When I did my Dasher I chambered and fitted an old shot out benchrest tube for fireforming only. Used Bullseye with a tissue wad and compressed semolina [couldn't find COW in Tesco's] Worked well after a bit of experimenting to get the correct load, cases came out sharp only downside was getting all the gunk out of the cases as it tended to stick behind the shoulders. Bent bit of wire got it out if done soon after firing. I fired them off down my local smallbore range as it was easier to have the gun on bags on a bench but I got a few looks and coments from "serious" smallbore shooters. Still got the tube somewhere I think if its any use to you Ian.

 

Will my RCBS chargemaster be able to throw consistent semolina charges though? or would the kernals be a bit to big

 

Neil, I was toying with the idea of rechambering the old 6BR barrel to a 6mm Crusader and using that as a forming barrel.

 

Will having two barrels mean two slots on my ticket? because I'm fast running out.

 

20Tac thanks for the link.

[CliveWard]

Does anyone here have any experience or opinions of the Hornady hydraulic forming die?

 

http://accurateshooter.wordpress.com/2009/...ic-forming-die/

 

I have spoken to two UKV members and value their opinions but I want to push on with this a little further.

 

From what I can gather it will get a case to roughly 90-95% formed, but if there's a performance difference in the last 5 to 10% then surely it's not practical? unless the performance difference is negligible. I have also read that once you have used the hydraulic die if you then run them through a custom FL die you then have a case that is 99% formed.

 

I know some cases can shoot extremely well while case forming, the 22.250 AI being one of them, but I will be looking to form 6mm Rem AI or 6mm Crusader brass from Winchester 6mmRem cases. The idea of saving powder, primers and bullets is quite appealing.

 

Hi Ian,

 

You may or may not remember but one of my other hats is in very high pressure hydraulic engineering.

 

I've been toying with this idea for a while. Manufacturing a 'proper' hydraulic forming tool, rather than something you tonk with a hammer.

 

Does anyone know what pressure is required to fully form a case?

 

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

Clive

[Elwood]

Hi Ian,

 

You may or may not remember but one of my other hats is in very high pressure hydraulic engineering.

 

I've been toying with this idea for a while. Manufacturing a 'proper' hydraulic forming tool, rather than something you tonk with a hammer.

 

Does anyone know what pressure is required to fully form a case?

 

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

Clive

 

Very good question Clive, hopefully some clever cloggs will be able to answer it.

[Ronin]

I imagine similar pressure to what is in the chamber at the time of firing - circa 50,000 psi and above.....although I may be way off base.

[MarinePMI]

I imagine similar pressure to what is in the chamber at the time of firing - circa 50,000 psi and above.....although I may be way off base.

 

I don't think you'll need 50K psi (seems a bit high to me), but you will need quite a bit. I'd think (just guessing), one should be able to look at a FF load using some fast burning powder with COW, load that charge in QL along with the weight of the COW and then render/deduce the pressure spike. That pressure spike should be what you're looking for.

 

Then again...constant lower pressure(relatively speaking), versus the spike may actually be better. When you think about it, the thickness of the brass is going to be the determining factor. Rimfire brass forms to the chamber when fired, but it is much thinner (for example).

 

It should be a simple calculation of the material (cartridge brass) and it's relative strength...

 

Just kind of rambling some thoughts here...