Chris-NZ Posted May 30, 2010 Report Share Posted May 30, 2010 A few years back, I bought my two boys a basic Rem SPS .223 for casual goat and varmint shooting. It turned out to be quite a shooter, routinely cranking out groups under 3/4" even with bulk projectiles and the loads tossed together. I did however find the factory stock useless- terrible flex in the forend that made bipod use hit and miss. I eventually imported a full carbon stock from Edi on here (PSE Composites) and was immediately impressed when it arrived. Extremely stiff, in fact I showed it to Greg, the editor on NZ Hunter magazine and he compared it side by side with his favourite lightweight hunting stock, namely the McMillan Hunters Edge. Despite the PSE stock being slightly lighter ( total 695gr / 24oz), it was noticeably stiffer than the McMillan and had a far better forend for bipod use plus a decent cheek height to allow a proper check weld. The stock is moulded fully inletted for a SA Rem so isn't weakened by post-manufacture inletting, another area the McMillan suffers from. I used a minimal amount of MarineTex to bed the action to the stock but it was a close fit straight out of the mould. My gunsmith then shortened and threaded the barrel for the NZ-made Hardy over-barrel suppressor. This has a 14x1 thread and he did a test cut on a blank to get the fit exact. At the point where the rear of the suppressor touches the barrel, there was 4 thou included runout after the barrel was clocked up to spin as accurately as possible, so it's a relatively straight factory barrel. The assembled rifle is still quite light and this is what I wanted to achieve as it will regularly be carted around the hills after goats. It's pictured with one of the magpies I got with it today- had to brave the rain and cold SW wind. The barrel is still 21" so velocities shouldn't be too compromised. I haven't had a chance to chrono it yet but will get round to that shortly. I was more interested in how it shoots with the new stock and suppressor and had a chance the other day. Not a great day with a reasonable breeze and bad frontal light but near enough. I should have put one of my powerful spare scopes on but stuck with the pre-existing 3-9 Nikon Monarch. Given I just used the std ammo from my other VS Rem, I was quite happy with the results: You will see the zero changed when I removed and immediately refitted the suppressor. Having never owned a suppressed rifle, I have zero basis for judging if this is normal or otherwise. Ignore the bigger group from the refitting- the subsequent groups were just as good as those shown but the zero def had shifted. What would your comments be on this shift?? Chris-NZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skany Posted May 30, 2010 Report Share Posted May 30, 2010 A few years back, I bought my two boys a basic Rem SPS .223 for casual goat and varmint shooting. It turned out to be quite a shooter, routinely cranking out groups under 3/4" even with bulk projectiles and the loads tossed together. I did however find the factory stock useless- terrible flex in the forend that made bipod use hit and miss. I eventually imported a full carbon stock from Edi on here (PSE Composites) and was immediately impressed when it arrived. Extremely stiff, in fact I showed it to Greg, the editor on NZ Hunter magazine and he compared it side by side with his favourite lightweight hunting stock, namely the McMillan Hunters Edge. Despite the PSE stock being slightly lighter ( total 695gr / 24oz), it was noticeably stiffer than the McMillan and had a far better forend for bipod use plus a decent cheek height to allow a proper check weld. The stock is moulded fully inletted for a SA Rem so isn't weakened by post-manufacture inletting, another area the McMillan suffers from. I used a minimal amount of MarineTex to bed the action to the stock but it was a close fit straight out of the mould. My gunsmith then shortened and threaded the barrel for the NZ-made Hardy over-barrel suppressor. This has a 14x1 thread and he did a test cut on a blank to get the fit exact. At the point where the rear of the suppressor touches the barrel, there was 4 thou included runout after the barrel was clocked up to spin as accurately as possible, so it's a relatively straight factory barrel. The assembled rifle is still quite light and this is what I wanted to achieve as it will regularly be carted around the hills after goats. It's pictured with one of the magpies I got with it today- had to brave the rain and cold SW wind. The barrel is still 21" so velocities shouldn't be too compromised. I haven't had a chance to chrono it yet but will get round to that shortly. I was more interested in how it shoots with the new stock and suppressor and had a chance the other day. Not a great day with a reasonable breeze and bad frontal light but near enough. I should have put one of my powerful spare scopes on but stuck with the pre-existing 3-9 Nikon Monarch. Given I just used the std ammo from my other VS Rem, I was quite happy with the results: You will see the zero changed when I removed and immediately refitted the suppressor. Having never owned a suppressed rifle, I have zero basis for judging if this is normal or otherwise. Ignore the bigger group from the refitting- the subsequent groups were just as good as those shown but the zero def had shifted. What would your comments be on this shift?? Chris-NZ nice little rifle there:-P as for the shift of zero thats a big no no! is your rear bush tight on the barrel! i dont use a bush any more due to weird acuracy & moving zeroes! never had a problem since! try without it I bet it cures it! cheers Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejg223 Posted May 30, 2010 Report Share Posted May 30, 2010 Chris, rifle looks the business now. Black action and the green goes well. Hope the kids like it too. Like skany said, try removing the rear bush. If it's not that..then check if the baffles aren't a bit on the tight side. Had a 22 mod on a steyr recently, we opened the baffles of the mod three times till it shot reliable. edi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris-NZ Posted May 31, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 I'll try as Andy suggests removing the rear bush completely and if that works, I'll get Tony to bore it out a bit. The thing takes up perfectly on the thread and the shoulder is true so no distortions at that end. In people's experience, how much effect does the fitting torque have on the zero &/or group?? Chris-NZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris-NZ Posted July 10, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2010 Finally had the chance to retry the restocked SPS this afternoon. After nearly getting bogged in a -sodden- paddock, I was able to see if removing the rear bush fixed the wandering zero upon refitting the suppressor. Sure enough, it did! Thanks for the advice guys. The thing's shooting well despite the rough ammo, particularly the bulk 50gr SP projectiles. Just as an experiment, I ran some different ammo through it, namely the std load for my VS varmint rifle. This is 27.5/W748/ 53Gr HP Match Horn. Only fired these three rounds but the zero's close enough to interchange these at under 200yds I called into my gunsmith/clubmate on the way home and he's opened out the rear bush 0.75mm (diam) so I need to try it again with the bush back on. It now seems to have slight clearance all round. If not 100% consistent, I'll get him to open it up some more. Chris-NZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gandy Posted July 10, 2010 Report Share Posted July 10, 2010 Thanks for the report, that's really interesting as I am looking for a similar lighter rifle for hill stalking. I have an RPA at the moment and whilst a tack driver is not suitable for shooting on the hill far to heavy for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris-NZ Posted July 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2010 Went and got some catfood with it this afternoon, namely 4 smallish nanny goats. Knocked over this billy at about 150yds- he wouldn't have gone down any faster if hit by a .300 WSM. The property owner kept him along with another two billies for dogfood as I wasn't touching him.. We don't call them smellies for nothing. The nannies are totally innocuous. Also scored a few turkey breasts which I might cook tomorrow night. There were maybe 20 in the flock but they gap it soon as the lead starts flying. Chris-NZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldie Posted July 11, 2010 Report Share Posted July 11, 2010 Fitting a mod with a semi close bush will alter the barrel harmonics Chris. Imagine this. Looking at the muzzle, imagine its a clock face. When the unmodded gun is fired, the muzzle is oscillating, and the bullet leaves the muzzle at 2 o clock. Put a mod on which is effectivley a weight, and it slows down the oscillation so the bullet leaves at 12 o clock. If you have a bush with minimal clearance, it can still contact the barrel upon discharge due to oscillation, altering the barrel length for the purpose of harmonics again. Bushes are best fitted tightly [which marks the barrel] or with at least 10 thou clearance. They aren,t there to correct any misalignment, at the front....the thread should have been done right [ which yours obviously is ] but to act as a safety device, should the mod come unscrewed, and tip slightly, which it will if the muzzle thread has been cut to the correct spec. A good check is to spin the mod down by hand, it should glide down the thread, and SNAP stop onto the shoulder. If all is perfectly square, you will find the mod needs a good tweek to unscrew back off. I proved this on a couple of identical rifles the other day for Rob Hunter over here. I fitted two of our sportac,s to the guns. Both being identical rear bushes etc, but fitted tight to the barrel as Rob likes them that way. The POI didn,t shift on either, and when we swapped the mods over it still retained the same POI on both guns. The golden rule is fully tight, or plenty of clearance....half way, and you will move the POI. This seems to work for me on varmint weight and heavy barrels very well. I think you will get zero shift more on a lightweight barrel, purely because of the weight of the mods. Its obviously not as prevalent on lightweight mods, ours are only 600 grammes. Lovely looking gun mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris-NZ Posted July 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2010 ..The golden rule is fully tight, or plenty of clearance....half way, and you will move the POI. This seems to work for me on varmint weight and heavy barrels very well. I think you will get zero shift more on a lightweight barrel, purely because of the weight of the mods. Its obviously not as prevalent on lightweight mods, ours are only 600 grammes. Thanks for that Dave. I've yet to try it with the extra clearance but I can foresee asking Tony to cut more clearance.. BTW, the Hardy mod is 355gr incl neoprene cover. Chris PS You'd be very interested to see the gun my gunsmith Tony has at present- it's Grant's (of TrueFlite) one with a prototype F-Class stock. Some very interesting features which I'm not at liberty to reveal at this point. Tony has to do the drawings for it and fine-tune some design details before it goes into production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldie Posted July 11, 2010 Report Share Posted July 11, 2010 Wow, that mod is light Chris....is it titanium ? The stock sounds good too......pictures will be required you know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris-NZ Posted July 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2010 The mod is their smallest one for .223 class guns. It's made from some sort of alum alloy- don't ask me which Dave. I specifically picked Greg's brain (the Ed of NZ Guns) about what would be compact and light for this particular gun and it's worked out fine. I'll flick some pics on when I get permission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris-NZ Posted July 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2010 woops- hit AddReply twice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris-NZ Posted July 31, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2010 Finally had a chance to test the modified suppressor today after my gunsmith has relieved the rear bushing by opening it up 0.75mm in diameter. Started without the bush and the three shots including fouler went into 0.6". Fitted the bushing and fired these two groups, loosening then retightening the suppressor between. Ignore the windage error- it was blowing firmly.. It seems the highly variable zero I first saw with refitting the suppressor was due to some stress from an overly tight rear bushing contact. Once again, thanks for the advice guys Going to try it on some maggies tomorrow hopefully Chris-NZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyCM Posted July 31, 2010 Report Share Posted July 31, 2010 Thank you Chris, Great to see the tweaks working for you - magpies watchout ! Cheers AndyCM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris-NZ Posted August 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 Shame I forgot to take the camera on Sunday as there were a few interesting things "harvested" with it. Not a great day with a nasty NW'er and occasional drizzle but as they say about any day fishing, ... We went to a new farm where the owner had said that we should blast every magpie we find plus a few other pest species. There weren't that many about by usual standards but we still got a decent amount of action in. The most memorable bit was after I'd tipped a maggie over at about 200yds. It was flapping its last when two other maggies swooped out of a nearby tree and into it! Nasty little buggers. I lined up on one and let strip. Unbeknown to me, my son had lined up on the other with my std VS varminter and his round was sent on its way 1/2sec after mine. Fortunately we were aiming at different ones and there were now three dead maggies within a foot of each other. The only problem was he fired the shot from the other quad about 15 feet immed to my right and I didn't have earplugs in Lesson learned on both sides. I managed one maggie at a good 250yds (also forgot the Geovids..) aiming off into the wind but it's much harder with only a 9X scope. I def need to upgrade that as the gun's up to it Chris-NZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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