17 fireball

[247sniper]

Hi guys,

 

I am new to this forum and was advised to join as it is very good.

 

Can i ask, can anybody give advise on the 17 fireball, whats it like to use, accuracy, tradj, and basiclly its overall performance. Would be used mainly on ground vermin and small game?

 

Many thanks guys

 

Steve

 

[baldie]

Welcome Steve.

The 17 fireball used to be a wildcat, but remington started to chamber it in a factory rifle recently, and its selling steadily apparently. Not owned one personally, but the little centrefire .17, s are all good fun, and perfectly adequate for rabbit, fox, crows etc. Virtually no recoil, and fast.

[22/250 foxer]

i no where there is a 17 fireball going. its on a sako a1 action with walther varmint barrel. not even been fired.

[sir-slots-alot]

I have not used the 17 FB.

 

I do have a 17 Rem which is my second rifle in this calibre.

 

This is a great point and squirt rifle - Laser flat trejectory - No recoil - deadly accurate - moderates well.

 

I shot a magpie last night with mine at 310 yrds -with a 25 grn HP - at 4050 fps

 

And watched the show as the unlucky bird was smashed off its perch

 

I would imagine the 17 FB - would have many of the same qualities.

 

 

ATB

Alan

[TonyH]

Steve, do check out the 6mmBR.com site, section on .17 calibres - very useful. There's a handy roundup of .17 calibres in a VHA article that's a couple of years old but mentions the .17 Fireball as a legitimisation of the original (1962) .17 Mach IV. It interests me a lot, seems ideal as that intermediate calibre for close to medium range before you start getting into something pokier for long distance.

And if you search for "fireball" you'll find a couple of potentially useful threads in this forum from last August & September.

Regards, TonyH

[varminter.223]

Hi Steve,

 

Im currently running its predecessor the 17MachIV on which the 17 Furball (remington) was based.

 

Its a sweet little cartridge and will probably be your go to rifle for most vermin control if you decide you want to go down that route.

 

17 furball brass is easily available or if you prefer or you can "roll your own" from .221 Fireball brass. If your really keen you can make 17 Furball brass from other donor cases such as .222 or .223 which is what I do ( no social life ).

 

Reloading for it is easy and I suggest you have a gander on Saubier.com. This site is dedicated to small caliber nuts and there's more info on there than you can shake a stick at (reloading section).

 

You can hurle the factory fodder 20gn vmax at 4000fps (may fluctuate depending on rifle etc etc) but once you start to reload you will ealsiy be capable of this speed and then some.

 

25gn projectiles can be pushed to about 3850-3900fps MAX after this your in the lap of the gods!

 

There are a variety of powders to use and Ive had great success with H4198 and Vectan 2000. 16gn of either will easily give 3700 fps and possibly more in a 24" barrel for a 25gn pill.

 

Range will depend on rig. I usually zero at 200yds and your good upto 300yds. With the right conditions and rig you can drop small critters out to 400yds and sometimes further conditions permitting.

 

Brass will give 7-10 reloadings if not more provided your not thrashing it!

 

There's no recoil and you can see your shots strike/miss the target which gives you an idea of where the follow up shots needs to be if required. Noise is minimal but the fun factor is smiles all the way!

[MachIV]

Hi Steve

I second the previous comments.

 

I have 17 M4 Sako L461 action Pacnor barrel finished at 22".

I make the brass from 221 Fireball brass. Use the seater die with the stem out for first pass, full size die second pass, quick neck turn, anneal, load and shoot.

I can nudge just over 4,000fps with 20gn Vms and 3,800 with the 25gns Vms but that is top whack and gives early pressure signs. Beware the pressure builds very quickly in the little beasts.

 

I run mine with 17gn H322 which gives around 3,650 with 25gn Vms - believe me it is plenty.

 

I have hit a couple at 180 recently and it nails them, no twitching just lights out!! I am going to have a serious effort at the 300 club this summer. I know varminter223 has done it already. I need to find some longer fields!!

 

Dropped Charlie like a stone the other night albeit at 50m.

 

Loads of fun, no recoil, easily moderated - the 'pop' hitting a bunny is louder than the gun going off!!

It always surprises me how much hitting power that little tiny pill has when it connects.

 

I only have one warning, try a small calibre at your own risk, you won't want to stop at one!!

 

Did I hear a 20 Tactical mentined?

[foxing2night]

Very interesting read,,

 

I am going to put in for a 22br barrel on my accuracy international

 

Should be good fun??

 

Darrel

[alled12]

You could try 20 vartarg, which I am about to build. simply the fireball case necked down to .204. Heavier bullets still moves along nice and rapidly with all the same characteristics of 17 fireball. Only one thing that it doesnt have is loaded ammunition. You will find a bit on at Saubier and also the 20 cal section of 6mmbr.com. Have a look.

[Chris-NZ]

That .20 Practical sounds a very sensible option, as per the name I guess.. There's unlimited .223 brass about and they're supposedly single pass thru the die. If I get bored, might have a play with one. The .204 Ruger seems the more expensive option though clearly effective- the varmint writer did a review of one in NZ Hunter mag recently and he had trouble finding enough rabbit remains fit for photographing

 

Chris-NZ

[baldie]

I,ve barrelled more Practical,s than tactical,s. The practical is, as you say Chris the much simpler option, and is a more efficient cartridge than the .204 ruger, giving similar velocities for around 2 grains less of powder, which is a substantial percentage gain. The tactical gets back up to a similar capacity because of the shoulder angle thus bigger case....but it isn,t much different to the .204 ruger, so why bother with all that case prep ?

The beauty of both is the ability to use Lapua brass however.

 

I think sometimes we are all guilty [ i know i am ] of wanting something " different" which we mistakenly believe will give us "more" and usually involves a hell of a lot of work. I,ll give a good [ and bloody expensive ] example.

I built a 22-250 Ackley improved recently. It entailed an expensive barrel, and i had to make a set of expensive custom dies purely for it. Everything went tickety boo, until i tried to use the bullet the whole rig was designed around....the 90 grain berger VLD. After 100 fireforming rounds, and 100 rounds load testing the said bullet...i,ve realised the bullet wont stand more than 3000 fps . It starts to throw flyers at 100 yards, at 3200 fps, and if i pushed it harder, which it would easily stand....they would blow up.

About as much use as tits on a fish.

 

I then tried the sierra matchking in 80 grain flavour. This puts them through the same hole at these velocities, and i,m about to start working the load up higher with these. The BC wont be the same though.

 

The point of all this...is that the std 22-250 would just about do all this. Sometimes we overlook the std chambering, when it is more than adequate.

[Alycidon]

Having a big heavy 20BR already I have been thinking of either a 20 Vartarg or a 17 Fireball as a lighweight walking rifle but I also have a lightish 6mm that if I changed the scope to something smaller/lighter would be pretty much the same. So a bit of a pointless excercise but I have two rimmys that due to the dissapearance of my rabbits get very little use, so one could go. Decisions, decisions !!.

 

I think that both are quite excellent rounds and ideally suited to sub 250 yard foxes and rabbits way out there.

 

A

[20Tac]

I,ve barrelled more Practical,s than tactical,s. The practical is, as you say Chris the much simpler option, and is a more efficient cartridge than the .204 ruger, giving similar velocities for around 2 grains less of powder, which is a substantial percentage gain. The tactical gets back up to a similar capacity because of the shoulder angle thus bigger case....but it isn,t much different to the .204 ruger, so why bother with all that case prep ?

The beauty of both is the ability to use Lapua brass however.

 

Dave,

 

You mention 'all that case prep' with the .20 tac - if you use Lapua .20 tac brass there is no case prep whatsoever! The cases are all ready to go - even with the .20 prac you would have to resize the neck from .223 brass, whereas with tac .20 brass you don't have to do any forming or resizing. I would therefore argue that the tac .20 is the best option (out of those three), and the Lapua brass is actually cheaper than .223 lapua brass anyway!

 

Andrew

[22/250 foxer]

I,ve barrelled more Practical,s than tactical,s. The practical is, as you say Chris the much simpler option, and is a more efficient cartridge than the .204 ruger, giving similar velocities for around 2 grains less of powder, which is a substantial percentage gain. The tactical gets back up to a similar capacity because of the shoulder angle thus bigger case....but it isn,t much different to the .204 ruger, so why bother with all that case prep ?

The beauty of both is the ability to use Lapua brass however.

 

I think sometimes we are all guilty [ i know i am ] of wanting something " different" which we mistakenly believe will give us "more" and usually involves a hell of a lot of work. I,ll give a good [ and bloody expensive ] example.

I built a 22-250 Ackley improved recently. It entailed an expensive barrel, and i had to make a set of expensive custom dies purely for it. Everything went tickety boo, until i tried to use the bullet the whole rig was designed around....the 90 grain berger VLD. After 100 fireforming rounds, and 100 rounds load testing the said bullet...i,ve realised the bullet wont stand more than 3000 fps . It starts to throw flyers at 100 yards, at 3200 fps, and if i pushed it harder, which it would easily stand....they would blow up.

About as much use as tits on a fish.

 

I then tried the sierra matchking in 80 grain flavour. This puts them through the same hole at these velocities, and i,m about to start working the load up higher with these. The BC wont be the same though.

 

The point of all this...is that the std 22-250 would just about do all this. Sometimes we overlook the std chambering, when it is more than adequate.

 

i dont no why more gun makers dont make the 22/250 with a choice of a 1 in 8 or 1 in 9 twist.

 

i think sir slots alot on here got it right having his tikka built with that choice. he can fire the bullets of his choice. yet dont have to do any fireforming.

and if the laupa brass does come out here for 22/250 then it will be even better

[baldie]

Dave,

 

You mention 'all that case prep' with the .20 tac - if you use Lapua .20 tac brass there is no case prep whatsoever! The cases are all ready to go - even with the .20 prac you would have to resize the neck from .223 brass, whereas with tac .20 brass you don't have to do any forming or resizing. I would therefore argue that the tac .20 is the best option (out of those three), and the Lapua brass is actually cheaper than .223 lapua brass anyway!

 

Andrew

 

 

Brain fart there Andrew...i completely forgot the tac 20 lapua brass. Isn,t is stamped up as Dakota arms ?

[20Tac]

Brain fart there Andrew...i completely forgot the tac 20 lapua brass. Isn,t is stamped up as Dakota arms ?

 

Yes it's stamped as Dakota 20 TAC with the Dakota Arms logo but it also has the Lapua 'L' logo on it too.

[alled12]

Either way 20 tactical or 20 practical are an easy cartridge to reload for. I assume you full length size your 20 tactical brass the first time or simply neck size it. Well hell thats all you do with 20 practical. One step through a 223 type s bushing die and you have sized and necked 20 practical brass. There is little between them. If you dont want use lapua brass, instead a cheaper brand then the Practical is as it is called more Practical.

[Chris-NZ]

You beat me to it Alled though I must admit if I'm feeling lazy, I just load them straight out of the box rather than running them through the die before the first loading. The 6.5x47 brass must be very straight as the groups are great with this lazy approach.

 

Chris-NZ

[alled12]

Chris

I can do either, lapua brass is very straight. I do tend to use the form die I have though just to be shore. I think quality brass gives you that possibility.

[Vermincinerator]

Dave, i thought it was common knowledge amongst target shooters that VLD bullets of all calibres dont function well above 3000fps

 

Ian.

[baldie]

Aye, it probarbly is Ian. I dont use them generally, the last gun i did, was in a 6mmbr and i was pushing them very sedately, so never encountered the problem. I wont be wasting any more time with them in anything. I,m a scenar fan, and will stick with them i think.

[Vermincinerator]

I used to use the 90 grn Scenars almost exclusively in my 243 AI several years back, very good.

Have you tried any of the 77grainers in your 22-250 AI ?

I am going the same route as you when i rebarrel although i want to shoot 75grn A-max's, however Alled 12 is looking at going 1-6.5 or 1-7 to utilise the 80-90grn bullets in a 22-250 Improved for target rifle, should be an interesting project.

 

Ian.

[garyw]

im just load developing my 17fb-cooper model38 pheonix cant get the 25vmax to shoot well but early days yet threw a load together with n133 and some berger 22gn mef and 3 shots went in for .202 this is my 2nd fb had a savage last year that was very accurate but too heavy.i would say next to the 17a hornet the fireball is the next best small varmint cartridge.no recoil -easy to form brass or buy it formed good powder choice and a small selection of bullets i also have a .17rem the fb will do the same job.

[baldie]

I hurredly threw together some 80 grain smk,s last week Ian, just to prove my theory on the bergers....it did, they all went down the same hole. I do have several thousand of the 77 smk,s as i use them in the AR for pr. I also have the 77 grain scenar, and i think a box of the 80,s too. I,m gonna give it some serious stick when i get back from the phoenix. I,m on a 1 in 7" lilja 3 groove, and i think it will still stabilise the lower weights. May even give the 75 A-max a bat too. Trouble is, its already had 200 rounds down it, i dont want to waste much more barrel life.

The custom nosler brass is excellent for this calibre however, and will put me on till the lapua lands.

[MachIV]

Hi Garyw

 

There is a long thread on Saubier dot com about 25Vms not shooting well in various 17s. They seem OK in my Pacnor barrel which is a 1 in 9 twist.