22/250 accuracy

[legion]

I have just spent a pleasant afternoon, zeroing a new scope on a rem 700 vsf, out to 240 yards on 30 mag getting inch/inch half groups with factory ammo. Having read this site following posts talking of 3/4 inch groups at 300yards and shooting crows at 400yards is this probably as good as i can expect from this rifle/ammo combo.

Are the current "new calibres" so much more accurate or is the lack of recoil the major factor.

I am now dissatisfied with the rifle and look forward to re barrelling in something more accurate-lifes a bitch.

 

On a positive note i zeroed a new scope on a cooper 17hmr at 170 yards and was getting 3/4 inch groups regularly so i carnt be that bad a shot, carnt wait to get a centerfire tack driver. This accuracy game is addictive.

[TonyH]

Do you mean you're getting 1" - 1.5" groups at 240 yards? I'd say that was not bad at all as real-world accuracy goes, and means a crow at 400 yards is not out of the question at all. Even if it was at 100 yards, you say factory ammo, and although I dare say some is pretty good my feeling is that factory Remington varmint rifles respond well to careful handload building: I'm on my second Rem 700VS in 22-250 and it's looking good, just a bit delayed for various reasons in completing my load development. Just because there are quite a few people with fancy custom rifles reporting ultra-small groups, you shouldn't feel your factory 22-250 is a failure; as I say, get into handloading and you will likely find you can attain excellent accuracy for far less cost than going the custom rifle route. With my factory Rem and handloads I've had crows, rabbits and groundhogs at around 350 yards, and this year I'm going to push out the distance a bit...

Regards, TonyH

ps I don't know who's been shooting 3/4" groups at 300 yards but AFAIC that's benchresting territory, not field rifle stuff at all. Just doesn't sound feasible on a regular basis. My Canadian chum could never shoot groups on paper like that in a million years, but he's hit groundhogs out to around 900 yards with his custom .243 AI.

[Vermincinerator]

I have to agree with TonyH, 1/2 moa groups are the norm for a good 22-250 with premium factory ammo and just a bit tighter with accurate handloads.

1-1.5 inch groups at 240yds is perfectly acceptable and nothing to be dissappointed about.

 

Ian.

[legion]

Cheers for your comments guys, i am new to this long range stuff, the rifle kicks like a mule and the stock really lets the rifle down, not to worry a manners T5 is on its way via SYSS. I bought some reloading gear off one of the sites locally, only basic gear, its plucking up courage to launch some home made ammo.

all the best Tim.

[tulkyuk]

Is it moderated ?? - my 22-250 is smooth as silk to shoot with a jet z on the end

[Mash67]

22.250 kick like a mule

how heavy is the setup

[duey]

I've always manage to keep sight picture with my remmy 22-250 either with or without a mod

as remmy ony guarrantee a 1MOA at 100yds then below that at 200yds plus is good

 

ian

[Alycidon]

My 22.250 was not my favorite, lost sight pic on firing and accuracy was about MOA on a good day with carefull reloads. Replaced it in the end, really good killer though.

 

A

[skany]

for a shooting factory id say u are on a winner for sure !

 

load up some 52g Amax & im sure u will be onto a winner:-P

 

Andy

[legion]

cheers for your comments guys, i am enjoying mastering the calibre at med range, get some reloading under my belt then move on to an intrinsically more accurate calibre. Long range target and vermin shooting really appeals. First stop 300yard club.

[Alycidon]

If you want to stop with the same size bullet then look no further than 22BR, Move up to 6mm then 6BR (or 6PPC). Move down to 20 then 20BR but it is a bit specialised.

 

All far far better rounds than 22.250 for accuracy IMHO.

 

A

[legion]

My problem in central scotland police area (dunblane) is my firearms officer is sharp, i would have to join a club, but there isnt one local. I have a cunning plan, the BDS is proposing running a deer training course, using my range at the back of the hotel, they will get it checked by the MOD for safety and draw up a template, should that happen i would like to get a BR club going, .22 and centerfire hopefully out to at least 300yards, then i WILL need at least two new rifles-heaven.

[TonyH]

If you want to stop with the same size bullet then look no further than 22BR, Move up to 6mm then 6BR (or 6PPC). Move down to 20 then 20BR but it is a bit specialised.

 

All far far better rounds than 22.250 for accuracy IMHO.

 

A

I have no experience with the other rounds you mention but really, "far far better" than 22-250? I'll acknowledge that since they're developed as target/benchrest rounds they are inherently very accurate, while 22-250 was developed as a hot varminting round with no pretensions to benchrest accuracy; but 22-250 has always been regarded as having at least very good potential accuracy, given the right rifle and careful handloading. It is most certainly very competent at what are probably typical varminting distances, say out to 300-400 maximum: beyond that distance, shooting skills out of the ordinary are required no matter what calibre is used, the guys on here who do this being exceptional by the standards of most riflemen. The BR/PPC calibres you cite are specialised and comparatively unusual: there aren't nearly as many factory rifles chambered for them as there are for 22-250; custom rifles in such calibres are expensive, maybe two to three times as much as my factory Rem cost; making the most of the accuracy of BR (etc) rounds in an expensive custom rifle assumes the requisite degree of handloading skill & experience; and the ability to make the most of super-accurate handloads in an expensive custom rifle, in the field (wind, discomfort, maybe a poor sight picture, etc), to the level at which a 22BR clearly outshines a 22-250, is a considerable step up for most people.

I'm not disagreeing with your assessment of the relative differences in inherent accuracy between BR rounds and 22-250! I'm just saying the difference is significant but not enormous, and making use of that difference requires very considerable input from the rifleman. The careful shooter can use 22-250 to good effect: my 16-yr-old son shot groundhogs last summer in Canada out to 265+ yards using a factory Sako 22-250 firing handloads, fitted with a Kassnar 3-9x scope; factory Remingtons I've owned (stock except for a Jewell trigger) fitted with scopes of 20-24x will do very considerably better. I wonder how many people buy fancy rifles in 22BR (and so on) assuming it will turn them into crackshots? I know there are some, and I bet there've been more than a few... I would urge our friend Legion to persevere with 22-250, work up a good load, and really see what it can do, before he starts shelling out scary money for a custom calibre rifle.

Regards, TonyH

[Alycidon]

That is sound sensible advice.

 

What perhaps I should have mentioned is that accurate rifles and calibers are very addictive.

 

There would be no reason at all why your FEO should not give you a one for one for a BR cased round against the 22.250. Energy levels are probably slightly lower for the 22 and 20 versions.

 

A

[Elwood]

Legion, I think that your accuracy is acceptable. Remember this is the internet and people tend not to tell you about the corvids that they missed at 400 yards, it doesn't make for a good read! so you only hear about the ones they hit, also most people only post photo's of the 5 shot ragged hole in the target at 200 yards ( myself included ) and rarely the ones that open out to average group size.

 

I would endorse Alycidons comments about the 22BR and 6BR (owning both) about being a much better round that the 22.250 but TonyH is right about walking before you run.

[DL.]

I have a cunning plan... i would like to get a BR club going, .22 and centerfire hopefully out to at least 300yards, then i WILL need at least two new rifles-heaven.

 

Now that is forward thinking, good luck, hope it works out for you.

[legion]

The local BDS was more than positive, with his backing and my effort in creating a usable range, local shooters will benifit, the hotel will have another string to its bow and i will have a club for like minded souls on my back door. win.win.win.

I am also exploring the loop hole for .22 ranges, gallery ranges using semi target rifles, the FEO will have plenty to say about that, but as long as its safe and supervised i can not see a problem. Time will tell.

[DL.]

Well Legion, My other half enjoys a shot with the rifle from time to time, so your venue sounds like an attractive place for an overnight stay. I have stayed in quite a few hotels over the past ten years, but there has been nothing that has captured my interest like this before.

[Alycidon]

The local BDS was more than positive, with his backing and my effort in creating a usable range, local shooters will benifit, the hotel will have another string to its bow and i will have a club for like minded souls on my back door. win.win.win.

I am also exploring the loop hole for .22 ranges, gallery ranges using semi target rifles, the FEO will have plenty to say about that, but as long as its safe and supervised i can not see a problem. Time will tell.

 

 

Certainly when I was in your area doing my Level 1 then the attitude to firearms is far more relaxed than down here in the south, seemed to me that just about every local had a 243 stacked away. The hotel landlord even let me clean my rifle in the pub beer garden. Down here you would have an armed response team on your back in about ten minutes.

 

Its about time we had a few more ranges about for centerfire but the noise and safety requirements are a nightmare. Even Minsterly which is almost as remote as you will find has had to limit it's shooting days.

A

[legion]

You have hit the nail on the head, noise, but with thirty terriers we chose our destination wisely. no neigbours. The hotel used to run a clay club from the garden so historically the premises is associated with shooting. I am sure every man and his dog will have something to say, but i have learnt that if you approach the planners with the intention of appeasing them to a degree you can make headway.

They may stipulate timing restrictions, but i have already sourced a piece of ground just up the road that can easily go to 500yards and has a massive hill as a back stop, thats plan b.

I want this hotel to be a fieldsport friendly establishment, there is loads of fishing around, this year i hope to gain some ground to offer sporting breaks for the common man. Something to suit all pockets. Thats the game plan- i can only give it my best.

[Vermincinerator]

I would endorse Alycidons comments about the 22BR and 6BR (owning both) about being a much better round that the 22.250 but TonyH is right about walking before you run.

 

"Better" yes, "much better" or "far far better" no, that would be like comparing a modern C/F cartridge with a muzzle loader!

I have owned and shot both 6mmPPC and 6BR rifles albeit the PPC being a BR rifle, the 6BR was a Cooper Varmint which although accurate was no more accurate then my current and third 22-250, this one is an Improved version on a custom action capable of realistic 5 shot groups in the .400"s. Easily enough accuracy to connect with small targets out to 400yds+

 

Ian.

[Elwood]

"Better" yes, "much better" or "far far better" no, that would be like comparing a modern C/F cartridge with a muzzle loader!

I have owned and shot both 6mmPPC and 6BR rifles albeit the PPC being a BR rifle, the 6BR was a Cooper Varmint which although accurate was no more accurate then my current and third 22-250, this one is an Improved version on a custom action capable of realistic 5 shot groups in the .400"s. Easily enough accuracy to connect with small targets out to 400yds+

 

Ian.

 

I am neither a gun smith or a word smith so I stand corrected on my over exuberance I liken my love of the 22BR to your views on the 257 Roberts, the 257 Roberts does everything the 25 06 does but for 15% less powder ( I read your comments on the other side ) as the 22BR uses less powder that the 22.250, although I haven't worked out the pecentage difference.

 

As for accuracy well that's down to the end user.

 

I have owned three 22.250's over the years and have enjoyed them all and I must admit I wouldn't mind having a few rounds with a 22.250 AI but I would still choose a 22BR or a 22BR AI

[Cornishman]

Lots of wise words here about accuracy and as I currently shoot both a 22BR and a 22-250 in similar format I thought I'd throw in my 2p worth. Which is that there is nothing to choose in terms of accuracy between the 22BR and the 22-250.

 

After testing both I've come to the following conclusions:

 

Firstly, if you want a Benchrest gun, buy a 6PPC with all the other bells and whistles.

 

Secondly, if you're shooting in the field there are many, many ways to miss your target before worrying about whether your cartridge is the best. For example, does your rifle shoot a cold-bore shot in the same place as subsequent shots? What kind of bullets are you using (after testing hundreds and hundreds I have a sneaky suspicion that polymer tipped bullets have a habit of throwing occasional fliers)? What kind of brass? My 22-250 groups noticeably tighter with Norma brass than with Winchester. One of the reasons the BR is so accurate is that the brass (assuming Lapua) is excellent quality. Brass matters.

 

And these are all technical issues without considering how accurate you might be from the bonnet of a Landrover, lying in a field or leaning across a hedge.

[TonyH]

Lots of wise words here about accuracy and as I currently shoot both a 22BR and a 22-250 in similar format I thought I'd throw in my 2p worth. Which is that there is nothing to choose in terms of accuracy between the 22BR and the 22-250........[snip]....... does your rifle shoot a cold-bore shot in the same place as subsequent shots? What kind of bullets are you using (after testing hundreds and hundreds I have a sneaky suspicion that polymer tipped bullets have a habit of throwing occasional fliers)? What kind of brass? My 22-250 groups noticeably tighter with Norma brass than with Winchester. One of the reasons the BR is so accurate is that the brass (assuming Lapua) is excellent quality. Brass matters.

Very thought provoking. It would be interesting to talk about e.g. your bullet experience, and brass: I like Norma but in 22-250 I've always used WW, relying on careful sorting & prepping; I've used polymer-tipped bullets for a long time, must be pushing 20 years.... Do you by any chance shoot at Duchy...?

TonyH

[Vermincinerator]

I am neither a gun smith or a word smith so I stand corrected on my over exuberance I liken my love of the 22BR to your views on the 257 Roberts, the 257 Roberts does everything the 25 06 does but for 15% less powder ( I read your comments on the other side ) as the 22BR uses less powder that the 22.250, although I haven't worked out the pecentage difference.

 

As for accuracy well that's down to the end user.

 

I have owned three 22.250's over the years and have enjoyed them all and I must admit I wouldn't mind having a few rounds with a 22.250 AI but I would still choose a 22BR or a 22BR AI

 

Ian, i cant fault your reasoning, you make a good case mate I keep on promising myself a fast twist 22BR when my current 22-250 AI barrel is shot out but each time i pick up the old gal it always surprises me of how good it can be.

I end telling myself keep it as a 22-250 AI its a fun cartridge.

Having said that i do like the reduced powder capacity and the increased efficiency of the BR case

 

Ian

 

Lots of wise words here about accuracy and as I currently shoot both a 22BR and a 22-250 in similar format I thought I'd throw in my 2p worth. Which is that there is nothing to choose in terms of accuracy between the 22BR and the 22-250.

 

After testing both I've come to the following conclusions:

 

Firstly, if you want a Benchrest gun, buy a 6PPC with all the other bells and whistles.

 

Secondly, if you're shooting in the field there are many, many ways to miss your target before worrying about whether your cartridge is the best. For example, does your rifle shoot a cold-bore shot in the same place as subsequent shots? What kind of bullets are you using (after testing hundreds and hundreds I have a sneaky suspicion that polymer tipped bullets have a habit of throwing occasional fliers)? What kind of brass? My 22-250 groups noticeably tighter with Norma brass than with Winchester. One of the reasons the BR is so accurate is that the brass (assuming Lapua) is excellent quality. Brass matters.

 

And these are all technical issues without considering how accurate you might be from the bonnet of a Landrover, lying in a field or leaning across a hedge.

 

Cornishman,

i dont bull$hit and i dont exagerate my rifles or my own performance, i take it with a pinch of salt each time i read about someone achieving 1/4 groups off the bonnet of the landrover, I have no problem telling anyone that my groups increase 2 if not 3 fold in size in field conditions, thats before you take into account wind, weather, temp etc......its a complete different scenario shooting from a solid bench with ideal conditions at the range, really only a test of equipment rather then the complete package.

On the brass front i am using Nosler Custom 22-250 which i found fireformed better and more truely then Norma.

The Norma also had a tendancy to start neck splitting after 3 reloads, i am now on my 8th reload with my original batch of Noslers, as of yet i have only noticed a few loosening primers pockets (which i have binned) no need to bump the shoulder yet either

 

Ian.