Elwood Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 After a bit of a wait for the correct gas torch heads, I finally got round to using my Ken Light annealing machine. A few photo's getting it set up using a 6.5x47 case 6.5x47 cases being annealed You can just make out the colour change (poor lighting) 1/4 inch down the case wall This lot took less than 5 minutes (50 cases) 22 BR cases being annealed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveW Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 Ian, That is one beautiful looking machine Which heads and gas did you use ? Propane or a butane/propane mix ? I reckon you need a few more cases to fully get used to it and test it ATB Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin jalland Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 CAN YOU GIVE US DETAILS OF COST ,TIME TO DELIVER, TYPE OF GAS USED AND GAS TIP TYPE CHEERS COLIN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elwood Posted December 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 CAN YOU GIVE US DETAILS OF COST ,TIME TO DELIVER, TYPE OF GAS USED AND GAS TIP TYPE CHEERS COLIN Colin/Steve, they cost $390, and $50 for each wheel, you get one wheel with the machine. If you have similar cases such as 30-06 and .308 or 6 BR 22BR etc then these cases can share a wheel, sounds good? trouble is he will not send to the UK! Luckily I have contact in the US who was willing to post it on to me, but the postage was $90, as you can see the cost is mounting up and then there's still VAT and duty. I'm using propane gas, each cylinder costs £15 although replacement bottles cost a lot less, I also needed to buy a US to UK transformer, although they are relatively cheap. The gas tip is a pencil flame to give precise heat on the neck. So all in all pretty expensive, but as someone said in an earlier post, Lapua 6.5x47 brass is £90 per 100 cases, it doesn't take that long to reclaim the outlay and as I'm reloading for six calibers now I thought it would be a worth while addition to my toy cabinet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6mmBR Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 Looking good Ian. I could of done with that later on Sunday to dry my brass out Speak soon Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldie Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 Are they benzomatic torches Ian ? if they are, you can get the gas at B+Q cheap enough, and the torches for that matter. I think i paid £12 each for my torches with the bottles on. Isn,t the centre of the wheel supposed to hold hot water ? Very nice indeed . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elwood Posted December 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 Are they benzomatic torches Ian ? if they are, you can get the gas at B+Q cheap enough, and the torches for that matter. I think i paid £12 each for my torches with the bottles on.Isn,t the centre of the wheel supposed to hold hot water ? Very nice indeed . Correct on both counts Dave, thanks for the B&Q tip, I think I paid £15 each plus postage. I thought the wheel would hold cold water to make sure the wheel didn't heat up and indirectly heat the case wall, as it happens this is exactly what it's supposed to do. There are certainly one or two improvements that can be made, watch this space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentsoulsleave308holes Posted December 6, 2009 Report Share Posted December 6, 2009 do they drop through the tray into water just after turning in colour???? a couple of pics I took whilst at the factory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted April 2, 2010 Report Share Posted April 2, 2010 Just considering having a go at annealing some cases. I have a butane/propane burner that I use for synging feathers off ducks, however cannot seem to get the necks hot enough? Do I need a propane burner? If I need a propane torch, would this do the job off eray?? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Bernzomatic-JT11-Pro...7#ht_2236wt_939 Advice greatly appreciated. Cheers NW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elwood Posted April 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2010 Just considering having a go at annealing some cases. I have a butane/propane burner that I use for synging feathers off ducks, however cannot seem to get the necks hot enough? Do I need a propane burner? If I need a propane torch, would this do the job off eray?? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Bernzomatic-JT11-Pro...7#ht_2236wt_939 Advice greatly appreciated. Cheers NW The Butane/Propane should be able to heat the case up with no problems at all. You need a pencil flame nozzle and try and get the flame about 1 inch long, use the end of the flame and direct the heat at the neck / shoulder junction, the heat will travel to the case mouth first and then work it's way down the case. The one you list on Ebay is the one I use but I do use the pencil flame torch head ( I'm not sure which head that one has ). It should take between 6 - 8 seconds of heat to anneal the case, but obviously this will vary slightly with different size cases. If in doubt buy some 475F Tempilaq heat indicating liquid and apply it 1/4 of the way down the case wall, let it dry ( takes a few seconds ) and then heat the neck, when the temperature of the case wall hits 475F the Tempilaq with turn to a clear liquid, as soon as this happens stop heating and wipe the Tempilaq off quickly ( otherwise it 's a bugger to remove ) It's better to under anneal than over anneal, if the case glows bright orange/red then you have gone to far. I would suggest you try on some cases that you don't mind wasting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigstevo Posted April 2, 2010 Report Share Posted April 2, 2010 That look very well made, very nice indeed......... Think i might have a look into something similar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted April 3, 2010 Report Share Posted April 3, 2010 Thanks Elwood, very informative. Where can I get the pencil flame adaptor for the butane/propane I have at the moment? It came from "Focus". Cheers NW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxshooter Posted April 3, 2010 Report Share Posted April 3, 2010 http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html A good read Ian, I look forward to hearing how you get on with this piece of kit. I like the idea of the'Brassomatic' annealer as it does it all rather than have to have a different turret for different cases. If you were feeding in belted magnum cases from the underside of the turret would it be a ball ache with your machine? I'd be interested to hear how much the VAT and duty stings you too. I assume it was shipped as second hand rather than new?? Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elwood Posted April 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2010 In all honesty Mark, the DIY method is probably the way to go. The Ken Light is a great bit of kit but pretty damned expensive even if you do avoid Duty and VAT. It also takes a while to get the gas torches set up right to heat the necks to the right temperature, to close to the neck and the neck gets to hot and to far away it doesn't get enough heat, you then have to adjust the angle of the torch to keep the necks in the flame long enough. If setting the torch heads could be improved upon with the Ken Light then this would be a major step forward. As you can see in the photo, it's a crude set up, grub screws and wing nuts, the wing nuts aren't so much of a problem it's the grub screws that are a pain in the arris. If I were doing a hundred cases at a time then the Ken Light is worth setting up, remembering that each time you change certain cartridges you then have to reset the torches. For instance I have a different wheel for 6BR, 6.5x47 and 7WSM, now of course the 6.5x47 wheel will do .308, .243 etc and the 6BR wheel will do all the BR cases. It will do the belted cases easily, as you just feed them in from the bottom of the ramp. This morning I did 40 7WSM cases using a cordless screw driver and it took about 10 minutes, using the Ken Light it would have taken me about 2 minutes to anneal the cases and probably five minutes to set it up. I use my K&M case holder to hold the cases and spin them in a Skil cordless screw driver ( old sockets will work as well, the advantage being that you can just tip the case out as soon as it's done ) I then apply a small amount of 475 Tempilaq a quarter of inch down the case wall. I do this for about the first five cases and count how many seconds it takes before the Tempilaq melts, with the 7WSM cases it was roughly 12 seconds. As soon as I'm happy that the cases have been annealed I don't bother with Tempilaq, I then judge it by the amount of time and visually. It's very easy to spot the changes with the naked eye once you know what you are looking for, but I have found it easier to notice the changes with Winchester brass than Lapua. http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=360902 If I get time a might do a complete write up of both techniques with photographs as I seem to be repeating myself in various threads if the mods make it a sticky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elwood Posted April 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2010 Thanks Elwood, very informative. Where can I get the pencil flame adaptor for the butane/propane I have at the moment? It came from "Focus". Cheers NW NW, I guess that depends on which gas torch you have?, but try looking on Screwfix, Northertool company, B&Q etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxshooter Posted April 3, 2010 Report Share Posted April 3, 2010 The tempilaq can be got from here http://www.industrial-markers.co.uk/prodMa...Q&br=14_118 2oz TL475F £10.99 +VAT 2oz Thinners TQLT £4.99 +VAT Carriage £1.99 The hornady kit seems a bit pricey when you work out what you are paying for the shellholders. Shipping from midway UK would add to it too Maybe I'll buy a torch and have a go. I've got a cordless drill and some old sockets kicking around. Is the tempilaq that hard to remove if you let it go cold? Do you think it would come off in a tumbler or does it wipe off easily when hot? Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxshooter Posted April 3, 2010 Report Share Posted April 3, 2010 Cheap gas refills at Halfords £5 http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/...tegoryId_165727 Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elwood Posted April 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2010 The tempilaq can be got from here http://www.industrial-markers.co.uk/prodMa...Q&br=14_118 2oz TL475F £10.99 +VAT 2oz Thinners TQLT £4.99 +VAT Carriage £1.99 The hornady kit seems a bit pricey when you work out what you are paying for the shellholders. Shipping from midway UK would add to it too Maybe I'll buy a torch and have a go. I've got a cordless drill and some old sockets kicking around. Is the tempilaq that hard to remove if you let it go cold? Do you think it would come off in a tumbler or does it wipe off easily when hot? Mark The easiest way is to wipe it off straight away Mark, it will turn from a white paste to a clear liquid, the liquid then dries hard. I used to use 0000 wire wool after I had annealed them, but then found wiping them with a damp cloth much quicker. I doubt very much a tumbler and media will remove it, but I haven't tried. I make sure all my brass is tumbled before I anneal, the shinier the brass the easier it is to see the colour change. Do all your brass prep after annealing and not before. Make sure you buy the thinners with the Tempilaq as it does solidify with time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted April 5, 2010 Report Share Posted April 5, 2010 If I get time a might do a complete write up of both techniques with photographs as I seem to be repeating myself in various threads if the mods make it a sticky. I would really appretiate it if you could do this Elwood, would help me decide whether its all worth the hassle?!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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