Integral Mod - Barrel Length/Legality?

[Guest Tiff]

I'm looking at getting a suppressed barrel for my Bingham .22RF. At the moment with a SAK on the end, it destroys its compact and balanced feel.

So I was thinking......

 

I know a barrel under 12" is sec 5, regardless of if a mod is pinned/welded onto a 8" barrel. Since from the moment it is 8" it becomes Sec 5 and thus cannot turn back into a sec 1 with a mod pinned on.

 

However what if a 14" length of barrel has a mod permanently fixed onto it (i.e. pinned and welded etc.) and is then cut down to 12" INCLUDING mod and then chambered. Thus is my mind it has never gone below 12" and so has always been sec 1.

 

So is that allowed?

 

Or does the entire length of the 'barrel' have to be rifled when legally defined?

 

Guessing it's the latter, but you never know till you ask.....

[shrek]

good question mate, I know that the early 70sh semi auto shotguns which had those unsightly screw tighen chokes (one slit taperd tube with a screw on to tighten the barrle constriction) soldered onto the end added "legal" length to the barrle, but thats was still technically barrle which the shot and wad had contact with.

 

I would say your on a fine line between right and wrong on this one, i would say the barrle length constitues contact surface between bullet/shot and bore.

 

However i am not up to date with my in depth firearms law, certainly not on rifles anyway.

 

Just my opion

 

Shrek

 

(got those 223 cases by the way, and like you said, they're top knoch!!!)

[eldon]

Interesting play with words Tiff.

 

I know where your coming from but a welded on moderator is still a moderator not a part of the barrel so I would say the barrel would now be under 12" so section 5. Technically the barrel is in contact with the bullet and the moderator shouldn't be .

 

I presume this would be the deciding factor.

 

Thats my opinion and I think you would be playing with fire to attempt it, but could be wrong.

[Guest Tiff]

I'm not cuting anything yet.....Just seeing if it has been done already or proved legal/illegal, before I start buying bits.

 

I know that if a moderator is permanently attached it does not need an extra slot and is classed as part of the rifle. I guess I'm really looking for a legal deffinaition of what a 'barrel' is?

[Chris-NZ]

..a welded on moderator is still a moderator not a part of the barrel so I would say the barrel would now be under 12" so section 5. Technically the barrel is in contact with the bullet and the moderator shouldn't be .

 

I presume this would be the deciding factor.

 

Thats my opinion and I think you would be playing with fire to attempt it, but could be wrong.

 

 

NO idea of UK law but surely the only issue is concealability.

A welded-on mod still makes up the length..

 

Chris-NZ

[Guest Tiff]

NO idea of UK law but surely the only issue is concealability.

A welded-on mod still makes up the length..

 

Chris-NZ

 

If only our firearms laws were that logical and simple. I tend to think of a logical answer, then reverse it x2 and then that equals our legislation. Kevlar lined English/Welsh roe is one example of hundreds.

 

I must say NZ does look like a very attractive place to live sometimes....

[AHPP]

Have a look into the De Lisle carbine (well, copies). There are some about with sub 300mm barrels which remain section 1 by dint of the mod taking the barrel over 300mm...

 

..sort of.

 

 

 

A chap on youtube called warmonger357 has one. He might be able to help.

[Guest Tiff]

Thanks AHPP, I will look into who makes the repro's and contact them.

 

So far I can find very little legally as to what constitutes a 'barrel' in legal terms.

 

However I have found the case of Broome v Walter (1989) where it was found that an integral sound moderator, that is one that is part of the firearm, does not require separate authorisation.

 

I will keep looking into what a 'barrel' is. Also if it has to have full rifling or even be in contact with the bullet for its entirety.

 

Any ideas would as ever be greatly appreciated.

 

Tiff

[20ppc]

Thanks AHPP, I will look into who makes the repro's and contact them.

 

So far I can find very little legally as to what constitutes a 'barrel' in legal terms.

 

However I have found the case of Broome v Walter (1989) where it was found that an integral sound moderator, that is one that is part of the firearm, does not require separate authorisation.

 

I will keep looking into what a 'barrel' is. Also if it has to have full rifling or even be in contact with the bullet for its entirety.

 

Any ideas would as ever be greatly appreciated.

 

Tiff

 

Hi Tiff,

 

As far as I am aware the firearms act does not define a Rifle per se. It defines shotguns and prohibited weapons ie a weapon that has a barrel of less than 30cm. The group of weapons we are talking about are referred to as section 1 firearams and include all weapons except shotguns. As shotgun is defined under s. 1(3)a of the Firearms Act 1968. Section 1(amended by Firearms (Amendment ) Act 1988s.2 Basically it goes on about smooth-bore ie not rifled. Therefore everything that is not a shotgun is either a S1 Firearm or a prohibited weapon.

 

The length of the barrel of a weapon will be measured from its muzzle to the point at which the charge is expolded(s.57(6)(a) of the 1968ACT

 

I would say that you have to keep your barrel at a min of 12" and whether it has an intergral silencer of not makes no diference to the "barral length as the act quite clearly talks about the muzzle and silencers do not have muzzles.

 

I hope this helps,

 

Regards,

 

Nick.

[Ronin]

In addition to what Nick has posted (and I aggree with this), do not cut the barrel (the proper barrel) shorter than 12" / 30 cm -

 

Sure make a sleeve mod similar to the AI or De-lisle to moderate the sound, but dont shorten the barrel..

 

 

 

Whatever "anyone else has done", (they may have Sect 5 cert?)

 

 

You possibly dont, so dont fall foul of the regs, its a long sentance......

 

I see what your trying to do, have a look at the AI full suppressed barrel for ideas...........

[AHPP]

Thanks AHPP, I will look into who makes the repro's and contact them.

 

So far I can find very little legally as to what constitutes a 'barrel' in legal terms.

 

However I have found the case of Broome v Walter (1989) where it was found that an integral sound moderator, that is one that is part of the firearm, does not require separate authorisation.

 

I will keep looking into what a 'barrel' is. Also if it has to have full rifling or even be in contact with the bullet for its entirety.

 

Any ideas would as ever be greatly appreciated.

 

Tiff

 

Peter Sarony (Armalon) might well be worth a buzz and Peter Lawman has one advertised on his website.

[Guest Tiff]

Don't worry guys all I have is a hacksaw/grinder here and trying to do a decent crowing job with one is a real pain So nothing is being cut yet!

 

However I will keep looking into this...Since a sound mod could have a muzzle if it was integral to the rifle and as such not defined as a sound moderator, but part of the rifle - Which part of the rifle is what I need to get defined....

 

I'm doing law at uni (part of the time, geo the other part) so really don't mind getting stuck into this one, since I can get marked on it using it as an extra case study .

 

If this draws a blank, I will just have a ported barrel fully sleeved. Since this shouldn't add too much length or weight.

 

Any other info would be great and I will keep you informed of my progress.

[baldie]

Been down this road tiff, years ago.

We sold a fully suppressed barrel for a good few years, and they were cutting edge in tems of noise. Then the rest of the silencer world caught up.If you use a mod such as the ase utra, or dm80, the general concensus of opinion, is that a .22 sub cannot be silenced any further.

We used a stainless 14" match barrel specifically made for us, in a std ruger profile, then made our own fully sleeved mod, which actually looked just like a full length .920 match barrel when done.