tactical custom build advise

[skany]

Hi guys

 

Mate of mine was at soprtsmans & liked the look of a "new model styre ssg" (or something like that) & asked wht i thought about them!

I replied that i had a prohunter which was pretty good to be honest & i hear good things about the ssg's in general & then he told me the price!

 

£2800 I said that seems bloomin steep & in custom gun terrority!

 

I said ill work out roughtly how a tactical custom build would cost so if you guys could let me know wht you think on my rough prices that would be great?!!

 

ok

heres wht i thought would suit him

 

surgen action £1000

barrel fitted screwcut invis cap £650

trigger jewle or cg t2stage £200-220

bedded mcmillan A5 type thing £600

detachable mag bottom metal this is a pure guess £350???

duracoat all metal £100

 

so £2920

 

would this get the job done or are some of my price guessings a boat ride out!

 

ronin aka Andy if you see this im guessing it would look a lot like the one u did recently so you input on price would be great!

 

Cheers Andy

 

cheers Andy

[Cornishman]

Andy

 

It's been a couple of years since I threw money at a custom build but I learned the hard way that it always costs more than you've budgeted. Don't forget the 'extras' like a moderator, a few spare magazines, proofing, carriage, dies, and other reloading gear,... it goes on and on.

 

If I had my time again I'd look closely at buying someone else's project and budget for a rebarrel if necessary. Just be aware that your perfect gun will be worth a fraction of what you've paid for it unless you're very lucky so maybe it's better to buy second hand. I've also had a go at using a factory action (Sako) and customising this. This worked out cheaper than a full custom job but there was a lot of work (i.e. cost) in blueprinting. I thought Sako actions were supposed to be good but mine was way off true.

 

On the subject of Steyrs I have an SSG and my wife has a Prohunter - both good guns. The SSG in 308 cost £1000 new complete with Khales sniper scope and gives me the easiest accuracy I've ever had in a 308. It does everything brilliantly well but when you handle it you realise it's not a top drawer gun. £2800? They're havin' a laugh. Buy a second-hand one - they're tough as old boots.

 

Cornishman

[Alycidon]

Skilled time in assembly is far from cheap and you also have to add in costs for reamers, stock finish material etc.

 

For best accuracy these things need putting together properly and that costs. There have been a couple of customs, one at least a PPC about recently very cheap, or at least the RPA one was. providing your guy is prepared to reload they will handle most things.

 

A

[skany]

Hi guys

 

no way this chap wont go SH so thats out of the question for sure!

 

cant see there being the need for a specialist reamer required im sure it will jsut be a basic 308 throated for 155's

 

so fairly standered stuff there really

 

barrel price i dont think will be far off as thats wht i was quoted recently so im sure thats close!

 

i recently picked up a cg trigger for my M84 so im good on price there!

 

the price of bottom metal im the least sure about to be honest & the price of a mcmillan A5 these days!

 

cheers Andy

[Elwood]

Buy a AICS and you don't need the bottom metal, I think the standard 1.5 is £600-£650

[Ronin]

Andy

 

 

the prices you have posted are about right for the build I did on the 308 that went across the water.

 

Although the A5 was more expensive as it had full ajustable cheek, butt and an anchutz bottom rail.

 

Basically u are in the ball park.

 

 

Although I think the surgeon is a little more now..

 

 

Reamer is set for any bullet (SAAMI) SPec (but ideal for 155 scenars)

[ChrisF]

Hi Guys ,

 

I just thought I would throw my 2 cents in ,

 

I have a Surgeon SA in a AICS , and I have a new Badger M2008 SA , PH M85 , AW etc .

 

IF " I " was building a 308 Class rifle ( 243,260, 7mm08 , 308 ) , I would WANT to run a double stack , double feed 10rd mag , ie the AW or M14 or similar .

 

I would use a Badger M2008 action , END of story , has a longer tunion than the Surgeon , and is very , very similar to a AW action minus the 3 posn safety , and its cheaper and smoother , Opps .

 

I would use either a Badger or Surgeon bottom metal , if it was me , I would pick the Surgeon bottom metal , as it seems to have MORE support for the magazine .

 

Trigger , 2-stage , Huber Tactical , varmint weight .

 

McMillan stock , McHale .

 

Barrel , a Border cut tube , profile either , a std AW , AW fluted target or a PH M85 contour , all very good , UP to you .

 

Brake , get a AW Tac brake , and use the BT can that mounts over it ,

 

About the only thing other than the listed , is maybe flute the bolt for a custom touch .

 

Later Chris

[ChrisF]

Here's some pics

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ChrisF]

Both the AICS mags and the AW ( 308 ) mags are the same outside dimensions , even thou they look different in the pics , due to the AICS being longer , closer to the lens , on the view from the TOP , the AICS are a double stack , single feed mag really made for the Rem 700 type rifles .

 

The Badger M2008 , can BE set up to run either , one or the other , but NOT both at the same time , due to a slight difference in the height you have to run them at , in the SA M2008 , I would run the better AW mags ( 308 class ) .

 

IF you where going to run something cal wise , either a shorter or fatter case , ie , a 6mmBR or a WSM , then I can see a use for the single feed posn of the AICS type mags .

 

The M2008 , has a 20 moa rail ,

 

The bolt head is similar to the AWM/AWSM , in that its a 6 lug , 60 degree lift bolt .

 

The only minus , over the Surgeon, is ITs a bit heavier , thats the ONLY bad thing you could say , for ME , its the ACTION , all others have to BEAT , bar NONE .

 

 

Later CHris

 

P.S. RE stocks , due to the thick/meaty design of the action , only a few stocks have enough thickness around the tang of the stock area , these are the McMillan A5 & McHale , Manners T4 & the AI AICS sctock .

[ChrisF]

Here's a pic of the McMillan , McHale stock as made for the Parker Hale M85 SWS , I donot beleive you can get IT with a adjustable cheek rest , due to not having enough room left in the rear stock design , I would however talk to mcMillan about that , if its something you wanted .

 

[skany]

Here's a pic of the McMillan , McHale stock as made for the Parker Hale M85 SWS , I donot beleive you can get IT with a adjustable cheek rest , due to not having enough room left in the rear stock design , I would however talk to mcMillan about that , if its something you wanted .

 

hmmm looks just like the stock on my m84 but less wooden:-)

 

that action looks great but im think whts easyly available as a priorty as im no sure how long he would want to wait for a build!

 

Andy

[skany]

Andy

 

 

the prices you have posted are about right for the build I did on the 308 that went across the water.

 

Although the A5 was more expensive as it had full ajustable cheek, butt and an anchutz bottom rail.

 

Basically u are in the ball park.

 

 

Although I think the surgeon is a little more now..

 

 

Reamer is set for any bullet (SAAMI) SPec (but ideal for 155 scenars)

 

 

thanks Andy ill be showing him a few pics of that rifle to see if he likes the style(if u dont mind:-)

 

Andy

[skany]

Buy a AICS and you don't need the bottom metal, I think the standard 1.5 is £600-£650

 

 

didnt know they come with a mag system ill be googling them shortly:-)

 

does this system need bedding?

 

cheers Andy

[Elwood]

didnt know they come with a mag system ill be googling them shortly:-)

 

does this system need bedding?

 

cheers Andy

 

It doesn't need to be bedded, but some people still do bed them, both of mine are .

[baldie]

Surgeons are still £975 retail, i believe.

Bottom metal is £175.

Plain archer barrel is £550 fitted and proofed.

Mcmillans are in the ball park you describe.

Jewell, again around £220.

Full pillar and devcon bed [including floorplate] £195

Duracoat all metalwork £150.

Muzzle thread £65.

Magazines, invisible caps etc are extra.

Non of the badger actions, or floorplates are available here anymore. They wont ship out of the US .

The surgeon , in my opinion, is the finest tactical action available today. I watched one piss allover the BAT,s ,AW,s stillers etc, last weekend. It also did it convincingly, as several here will testify.

The badger sure is nice, and i would love to try one myself, but we have to use what is available now. Basically that means you have to piss with what you,ve got.

[Ronin]

Would +1 on the Surgeon choice.

 

 

EVERY one ive built has been a sub 1/2 MOA - 1/4 MOA shooter no problem.

[ChrisF]

Hell , you guys are super stuck on the Surgeon's .

 

The Magazine on the AW is GREAT , and in MY view a MUCH better device than the double stack , single feed option, ie the AICS, and its easier to load and shorter in the lenght it sticks out the bottom as well as loaded round OAL .

 

RE : Badger Exporting , they donot have a FFL Exporting Licence , and donot seem interested in getting one , BUT they well send to a Exporter of YOUR choice , and as LeRoy's is back in business , there is NO reason to GO on about , how you cannot get IT , and wringing your hands of IT .

 

Also , just like the AW action , they are so precise , that YOU donot NEED a gunsmith to Ever set IT UP , you just order the barrel from the maker just like the AW , imagine THAT , Bartlein does it ,and if you sent a copy of the headspacing drawings to Border they could TOO .

 

I have both Surgeon SA and XLs , and they are very good , BUT in the SA , I like the Badger M2008 alot better , and as RE the XL , its very good , is IT the BEST 338LM action , NO , that honour goes too the PGW Timberwolf action , and YEAP , I have used that as well .

 

In 300WM , I like the magnum version of the M2008 .

 

And instead of trashing some thing , with out any Knowledge or 1st hand experience , thats crazy , I hate to think what would happen IF you guys cannot get any Surgeons any more , I would say the Sky is falling .

 

I had 3 Surgeon SA , sold 2 of them as soon as I saw the M2008 , and thats what I will primarily be using for Tac builds , either out of the AICS 2.0 stock , or McHale , and maybe the Manners T4 , depending on what I want .

 

Later Chris

 

P.S. As of a few days ago , Badger had in stock the SA and the Magnum ( 300WM ) versions .

[baldie]

No one,s trashing the action Chris, you,ve got the wrong end of the stick buddy. We just cant get them, thats all.I believe there is a general shortage of them in the states anyway.

Regarding tolerances.....

Every AW i,ve changed a barrel on, has closed on a "go".....closed on a "no go" and only just NOT closed on a field gauge. Legal for proof ? only just. Not what i would call close tolerances. The wife,s pussy is tighter.....and that bugger has had some hammer The barrels all have to be a compromise chamber length, to suit all actions, and all ammo. Great for a battle rifle, not great for a competition rifle.

The aics mag is single stack, central feed . Thats why we like them so much for 6mmbr conversions etc. The AW mags are only any good for what they were designed for, but are shorter, and therefore, neater, as you so rightly say.

Again, not trashing the action, or the rifles...they are damn good, and i will be very interested to see the gun you build with your action buddy. Whats it gonna be ? .308 ?

[Ronin]

Chris

 

 

do I read right that Leroy is back?

 

 

I was under the impression he had ceased trading....

 

 

Hmm, if this is the case, then I for one would be interested in trying a 2008.

 

 

Will make some enquiries - out of interest, what is the price of the 2008 (USD)

 

I think we (all Surgeon users / owners) love the action.

 

We shout loudly for what we know - ive only seen pictures of the M2008, never used one - I dont think there is one in the UK.

 

Like you I hankered after a PGW TW, but have an XL instead after PGW lost a sale due to lack of response...

 

 

I like the AW action, I like double stack mags, they make for a more compact system.

 

This news may affect my own planned 308 build.......

[ChrisF]

Hi Guys ,

 

YES LeRoys is back in operation , I e-mailed them a few weeks ago , and have some actions with them NOW , and sent my paper work over a few days back , drop them a line , they are more expensive than before due to increase in FFL Export Licence fees going UP .

 

BUT at least they are Back , and thats making IT a better option than , the other FFL Exporters , cost wise .

 

YEAP , he did stop for a few mths , and then decided to get back in the Export business , I got a call for Denise from LeRoys at the start of 2009 , saying they where to stop at end of April 09 , when there Export Licence ran out , then heard ( a couple of weeks ago ) they where starting back UP , dropped him a line , and yeap starting back up soon .

 

YES they had some actions in stock a few days back , SA 308 face ( $980 ) & the Long Magnum 300WM face ( $1185 ) , they do a 338LM face as well on the Long magnum version , unsure If they have any right now , again just drop them a line .

 

RE the Timberwolf , Opps , I actually have one , thats why I know the action is GOOD .

 

RE : the mag , IF given the choice , I will usually take the double feed , double stack , and being shorter is NOT the main reason for this at all , the Main reason is its usually MORE reliable , and second its usually quicker/easier to load ammo in to IT .

 

Later Chris

 

P.S.

 

IF any one is thinking of running a M2008 or any action as a Tac type rifle , YOU would be well served in lookiing at the new Huber Tactical trigger , its a 2-stage jobbie , getting REAL good reviews in the states at the moment ( its a sealed unit and has NO adjustment , its fixed from the factory, you donot tinker with IT , nothing to adjust and nothing to go wrong ) , its used on the High End , Ashbury Rifle ( uses a version of the Surgeon XL action ) , and they are VERY expensive .

Either that one or I would look at the new CG M22 with solid trigger .

[ds1]

Sent a cz700 to the states a month or so ago through Leroy`s that got to the end user no problems.

 

I guess if I wanted a M2008.......I would just buy an AI AW and have the original, with less messing around rather than the M2008 copy, of course this only works if you want an AI stock. Baldie has it right AI chamber is max spec.

 

Factory rifles will hold more of their value in general, AI or Sako TRG. There is now a PGW uk importer also. I guess the Sportsmans SSG08 is the fancy alloy stocked job for 2800 quid.

 

The Surgeon build by Ronin is doing excellent........took it out to 800m this week.

 

David.

[skany]

Sent a cz700 to the states a month or so ago through Leroy`s that got to the end user no problems.

 

I guess if I wanted a M2008.......I would just buy an AI AW and have the original, with less messing around rather than the M2008 copy, of course this only works if you want an AI stock. Baldie has it right AI chamber is max spec.

 

Factory rifles will hold more of their value in general, AI or Sako TRG. There is now a PGW uk importer also. I guess the Sportsmans SSG08 is the fancy alloy stocked job for 2800 quid.

 

The Surgeon build by Ronin is doing excellent........took it out to 800m this week.

 

David.

 

 

Hi david

 

yes that must be the ssg hes talking about!

 

Is that just a normal one in a frock then?

 

cheers Andy

[skany]

Surgeons are still £975 retail, i believe.

Bottom metal is £175.

Plain archer barrel is £550 fitted and proofed.

Mcmillans are in the ball park you describe.

Jewell, again around £220.

Full pillar and devcon bed [including floorplate] £195

Duracoat all metalwork £150.

Muzzle thread £65.

Magazines, invisible caps etc are extra.

Non of the badger actions, or floorplates are available here anymore. They wont ship out of the US .

The surgeon , in my opinion, is the finest tactical action available today. I watched one piss allover the BAT,s ,AW,s stillers etc, last weekend. It also did it convincingly, as several here will testify.

The badger sure is nice, and i would love to try one myself, but we have to use what is available now. Basically that means you have to piss with what you,ve got.

Thanks for that dave your a gem:-)

 

cheers Andy

[skany]

any stock types like this out there in quality aftermarket flavor?

 

http://www.steyr-mannlicher.com/en/sportwaffen/steyr-ssg-08/

 

Andy

[ds1]

Some stocks like it are available McRee, Ashbury, Surgeon Rifles have one on their web site also. More manufacturers are going down the same route too Remmington MSR, RPA, Sig SSG Phantom etc.

 

If your mate likes the Steyr then I would have a good hard look at the Sig Sauer 205 Phantom.

 

David.