Hornet advice

[Greenbear]

I have got me a hornet for some pest control and I am looking for a one load that does it all, I am looking to use the 40g V max as a starting point.

 

Anyone got any suitable recipes?

 

 

thanks in advance

 

GB

[Andrew]

GB: I have found three powder to be exceptional for the Hornet, two of which are available on your side of the Pond. The top choice amongst Hornet shooters is Hodgdon's "Lil Gun". It's benefits are good working velocity with very low pressure. Around 13 grains will suit you well and cause you no problems whatsoever. THe other powder for you is H-110. (Winchester 296 is identical) I have never shot 40 grain bullets with this powder but lesser weight bullets: the 35 grain V-Max and Midway's 34 grain "Dog Town" HP shoot exceptionally well at 10.8 grains. I suggest Hodgdon's website for exact powder charges. This 34 grain bullet from Midway, btw, is my favorite bullet. Very accurate and damaging.

 

I use Federal or CCI small pistol primers exclusively but make due with standard small rifle if you must.

 

A real key to reloading the Hornet for tiny groups is how you load it. I use Lee Collet dies and neck size only. I trim and clean primer pockets with every reloading. Before seating the bullet I gently flare the case mouth with a Lee Universal Expander die. It truly aids in straight bullet seating with no rumpled case necks. I seat the bullets with care and lastly, I apply a light crimp with a Lee factory crimping die. This last step is the clincher for tight groups as it makes the pull weight more uniform and counteracts the lack of uniformity that plagues Hornet brass.

 

I don't know what Hornet you're shooting but for the three CZ 527's I have been associated with (mine, my son's and my friends) these loading techniques have garnered half MOA or better for three shots at 100M. Somewhere in this reloading section -a few weeks back, perhaps, I posted a recent group with the Dog Town bullet. You can have a looksee if you wish.

 

Good luck, and Enjoy. ~Andrew

[dpile1]

Check out this loading info:

 

http://www.reloadersnest.com/query_bw.asp?...0&offset=20

 

Hope this helps.

 

Darren

[Greenbear]

cheers lads excellent info

 

 

I have a Ruger mid weight barrel on its way to me.

 

the Lil gun powder seems to be the bussiness I think nd I have heard rave reviews about Midways dog town bullets.

 

 

happy days

 

 

 

GB

[1967spud]

any chance of piccies mate as they are a sweet litlle calibre

[Andrew]

cheers lads excellent info

 

 

I have a Ruger mid weight barrel on its way to me.

 

the Lil gun powder seems to be the bussiness I think nd I have heard rave reviews about Midways dog town bullets.

 

 

happy days

 

 

 

GB

 

I hope that Ruger works out for you. I ordered one of the very first production Ruger 77/22 Hornets (1994??)when they became available and found it an utter disappointment. My best 50M group was 3" for 5 shots. When I called the factory they simply didn't care and I ended up selling it to a fellow who could "...make any gun group!" I never bought a new Ruger after that. I am told though, that the Ruger Hornet of today is a good shooter. I look forward to your report! ~Andrew

[Greenbear]

Hi Spud, I will get some piccies on as soon as I pic it up hopwe fully not long now

 

 

Andrew - I am now one worried shooter

 

A full report will follow in due course, hopefully without too many profanities

[njc110381]

I'll second the lil-gun comment. Great powder for the Hornet so I'm told.

 

Second bit of advice for you, don't order your reloading kit from the Sportsman. If I had ordered mine somewhere else I could have given you some more load ideas, but the all important crimp die is nowhere to be seen. Jokers never even sent me a note to say it was out of stock, just sent half an order!

 

You should have ordered a CZ527. I hope your gun shoots well and I'm sure it will, but the CZ has a fine reputation for being one of the best Hornets available!

 

Only neck size, use Lil-gun, always crimp, don't use heavy bullets. Easy really

[Chris-NZ]

I hope that Ruger works out for you. I ordered one of the very first production Ruger 77/22 Hornets (1994??)when they became available and found it an utter disappointment. My best 50M group was 3" for 5 shots. ...~Andrew

 

 

Same experience exactly Andrew, possibly 4 years ago, until I tried some 35V-Maxs and it was suddenly a whole new world. They would usually shoot under an inch but def not 1/2min.

 

From memory, there is info on the Net that suggests the 2-part bolt is a significant factor in why this model is finicky.

 

Chris-NZ

[Andrew]

GB: My Ruger Hornet was years back. Perhaps they have it under control by now. I also am puzzled that you didn't go CZ as they are pretty much accepted as the best Hornet out there.

 

No matter, your Ruger will shoo fine. NJC's advice is well given. Stay away from heavy bullets if possible. I don't know what vermin you're tackling but if you do need a heavy bullet, try the Sierra 40 grain soft point. They were designed for the Hornet and will expand well at 2800 fps. FYI, I shoot a Winchester forty-six grain HP that I pick up in bulk when the shooting doesn't require top accuracy. (they are good for 5/8 to 3/4MOA) 12.5 grain s of Lil Gun will move them at 2860 in 70 degree F temps. I would shoot them more but my main quarry is rabbit and prairiedog and I have had too many "shoot-throughs" to justify their use in close around cattle and farms. The 33 and 35 grain V-Max, and well as the 34 grain Dog Towns, seldom go through at reasonable Hornet ranges. (out to 250 yds)~Andrew

[Greenbear]

First up, I only went for a Ruger as I managed to get a good PX deal for my .375, I get rifle loading kit and brass to start so I am more than happy with the rifle.

 

 

As for bullet weight my main quarry will be fox, crow, rabbit so I am no probs with going for a lighter bullet if it suits, you guys have given me some excellent advice and tips so there is no reason not to use them.

 

I agree with the CZ statement have not seen a bad one yet, it was just a case of money and availaility that drove me to a Ruger.

 

I have also heard that early hornets were desingd for a .223 diameter bullet and not the modern .224 we currently use - unsure as tot he strength of this though

[Andrew]

GB: You'll have little trouble collecting good groups from that Ruger. I can certainly understand a "target of opportunity" in the gun trading business! Done it many times.

 

Yes, the lighter bullets should make your day on those types of Vermin. The V-Max 35 is a solid bullet, accuracy wise. The Dog town has a better ballistic coeffecient and sems to fly flatter but I'm told that some rifles don't like it. Mine sure do.

 

A couple of nice things about the Ruger are that the ring mounts are great. I love the variety of rings available. Another is that unlike the CZ, you probably could load the 40 grain V-Max torpedoes in the Ruger rotary magazine. The CZ mag won't take a long round, unfortunately.

 

I was wondering when thge .223 -.224 bullet diameter thing would surface. In as few words as possible... Forget about it! Much ado about nothing. I have shot .224 Hornet bullets from early Hornets with no problems. My dear Highland cousin shoots .224" bullets from his 1949 Brno without a hitch and gets enviable accuracy.~Andrew

[Greenbear]

Thanks Andrew, thats put my mind at rest.

 

I can start using the rifle this weekend, though as my renewal is next month I will not add it to my ticket until then.

 

It looks as if its a toss up between the dog town and the 35g V max, I think I will try both and see what shoot best in my rifle.

 

Thanks again for all your help

 

 

GB

[njc110381]

I've got myself a box of the 35grn V-Max to try out before I do anything else. A very kind chap donated a few 36grn Varmint Grenades for me to try too but they really don't look like they will fit in the mag

 

If the V-max work I will stick with them. They should shoot the same trajectory as the HMR roughly but with twice the weight and 500fps more speed they will be a lot more convincing on the Foxes! All this with only 12grns of Lil-gun, so far less bark than the bigger .22s and also very cheap to load.

 

I loaded up 20 rounds of V-max over Lil-gun to try without a crimp. I'm really annoyed my die hasn't turned up yet as I think it will really make the load work. The neck tension is so varied in these little cases that I can feel it when I'm seating the bullets! I'm not sure I'm even going to bother shooting them until I've crimped them because it will probably be a waste of time and bullets.

[Andrew]

I agree, the V-Max is the place to start. My son will shoot nothing else from his CZ and leaves me to "experiment" with other bullets while he blithely continues burning up our V-Max supplies!

 

I calculated the V-Max ballistic coeffecient at .11 at 3100 fps and at 3400 ft altitude. I did this using twin chronographs and and some math and I'm pretty sure it's accurate as it matches actual trajectories.

 

When sighted in dead on at 100, you're 5.6" low a 200 and 25.6" low at 300 with a remaining velocities of 2290,1580, and 1132 respectively. Due to the nature of our beasts (prairiedogs) and their small size, we sight in 1.5" high at 100 yards. This allows us to place the horizontal wire under a dog laying flat on it's hole and makes for better target definition. It also decreases the amount of "hold over' required at 200.

 

With a +1.5" zero at 100, we are about dead on at 175 and a few inches low at 200. It takes a little getting used to but it utilizes the Hornets trajectory well.

 

The crimp die is really a must.

 

The Lil Gun powder is so kind that one of my rancher friends no longer meters it out when loading Hornet for his wife. He simply scoops the case full and taps out enough to allow seating the bullet! His wife doesn't miss many prairiedogs from what I hear.

 

Now, that's a little crude even for me, but it well illustrates the properties of Lil Gun in the Hornet. A "maximum" charge of Lil Gun with a 35 grain VM is 13.0 grains which generates 24,000 CUP pressure. The SAAMI max pressure for the Hornet is in the 42,000 CUP range. Thirteen grains is about all you can fit into a Winchester case anyhow. Shooters using Remington brass seem to be able to get 14 grains into the case and report no problems.

 

The big advantage is that brass seems to last forever. I have 11 reloadings on some brass that finally just work-hardened in the neck and refused to be resized. I took a few random pcs and milled them in half to see how thin they were at the web. They looked fine.

 

Ok. I've beaten Hodgdon's tambourine long enough. Fill us in when you get shooting. ~Andrew

[Guest alan108]

I followed Andrews advice last year for my .22 Hornet and have had great results with LilGun powder(13gns) and 35gn V-max bullets, i tried 40 gn v-max but found if seated to the correct lenght then they wouldn't fit in the magazine,and had to be loaded singlely. thanks Andrew.

[njc110381]

I know this is going a little off topic, but how much can powder be compressed? At that sort of pressure I think I may just use the case as a powder dipper! If I fill the case and swipe it off level will the bullet seat or is that pushing it a bit?

 

I'm really enjoying my Hornet ATM. I'm being really silly with it and it's just great fun. I loaded some air rifle pellets in the cases in front of a small rifle primer the other day and shot coke cans with it in the garden! It was safe enough to not need much of a backstop. It never even made it through the bean tins I shot and grouped about an inch at 20 yards

[Andrew]

I have had a hard time compressing Lil Gun to any great degree. I once tried some 14 grain loads in Winchester cases and seated the bullet to the correct OAL to find they'd grown a bit before I could crimp them. My buddy Robbie would tell you that scooping the case works.... I prefer my 50 year old Belding and Mull measure as it throws exact charges of Lil Gun with almost no variance. Is it worth it?? Probably not. I just like doing it. ~Andrew

[njc110381]

I'll try throwing some loads with my Lee powder measure. It would be much easier than scooping if it can be fairly accurate at that light a load. Lil-gun certainly looks like it should meter ok, it's a small grain which seems to flow fairly well.

[Andrew]

I am usually a fan of the Lee equipment but I had serious issues with their powder measures; especially with fine powders. They leaked out around the periphery of the drum. I got rid of mine. Hope yours works for you.~Andrew

[Guest alan108]

I am usually a fan of the Lee equipment but I had serious issues with their powder measures; especially with fine powders. They leaked out around the periphery of the drum. I got rid of mine. Hope yours works for you.~Andrew

 

I think you may have got a "duff" one, Andrew,mine's worked fine for over a year. Just thought,duff is the beer that Homer Simpson drinks.

[Greenbear]

Just like to add guys a fellow forum member has very generously given me an almost full box of 35g V max on the strength of this thread - Its the things like this that keeps me coming back to this forum.

 

 

Many thanks to Stevie 220 Ackley

[Guest alan108]

Just like to add guys a fellow forum member has very generously given me an almost full box of 35g V max on the strength of this thread - Its the things like this that keeps me coming back to this forum.

 

 

Many thanks - Stevie 220 Ackley

 

You'll find that the do the bizz,i've had excellent results at ranges up to nearly 200 yards on rabbits and foxes. best ammo that i've used.

[Greenbear]

Cheers Alan

 

I think these 35g and some little gun seem to be the way forward, can't wait to slap a few charlies with them

[Guest alan108]

Steve, I also use magnum primers,works well in the small case,13gns Lil'Gun and 35gn v-max,no signs of pressure, Alan