casts_by_fly Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Hi guys, Pretty new news. Berger has just come out with a 55 gr long boat tail in 20 cal. They've confirmed the BC to be .381 at 3800 fps. With those numbers you're looking at 5 MOA drop at 500 yards and 20 MOA at 1000 (zero'd at 100). That is 8.5 MOA better than a 140 gr Amax coming out of a 260 rem at 2900. Wind drift essentialy the same for both all the way out to 1000 (1 MOA at 100 difference). If zero'd at 200, you're less than 1" high at 100 and only 2' low at 500. Looks like a great new bullet for long range varminting. http://www.saubier.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6237 Thanks, Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycidon Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 I have been watching the thread for a couple of days, a 55 or maybe a 60 had been expected for some time. Looks an interesting development and I will try a box in my BR when I get it but we are throating for the 50 grain in a 1 in 9 twist. As you say the ballistics are impressive, as a comparison the 50 gr Berger (BC .295) drops 7MOA at 500 yards and 26moa at 1000 yards when driven at 3800 fps. According to my programme drop at 500 is 28 inches as opposed to your stated 24 inches on the 55gr. Take a pretty special .22 to keep up with that !, perhaps a Middlestead. A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casts_by_fly Posted January 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 al, it is 28" if you are zero'd at 100. If you zero at 200 then it is 24". Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermincinerator Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 I doubt if even the Middlestead will match those ballistics. With a case capacity almost the same as a 22-250 AI the Middlestead will only drive a 70grn Berger VLD at about 3600fps. Ian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kip270 Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 And they have brought some out for the .270 in 130/140 & 150 grain, and Reloading solutions have them in stock so will be ordering them very soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejg223 Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 If one has to go for a tight twist I'd rather choose a 22 because of the better bc's and energy. 75gr a-max with .435 or 75 VLD Also deer legal in some places. edi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris-NZ Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Hi guys, Pretty new news. Berger has just come out with a 55 gr long boat tail in 20 cal. .... If zero'd at 200, you're less than 1" high at 100 and only 2' low at 500. Rick Assume the drop at "500" is a typo?? Starting at 3800 with a 200yd zero, the rough drop at 300 will be about 4" cheers Chris-NZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejg223 Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Assume the drop at "500" is a typo??Starting at 3800 with a 200yd zero, the rough drop at 300 will be about 4" cheers Chris-NZ Chris, I think 2' = 2foot at 500 I also fell for it. edi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycidon Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 al, it is 28" if you are zero'd at 100. If you zero at 200 then it is 24". Rick I think you are talking about the new 55s, I was talking about the 50s and comparing them. This is the calculator I use and find it better than any other as it shows clicks and the actual amount of bullet movement, and its free . http://www.biggameinfo.com/index.aspx?page=%2fbalcalc.ascx Mind you 20BR might struggle to move a 55 at 3800, perhaps a 20.250AI might be better for it. Be some very high pressures involved for sure. I dont have Quickload on this box otherwise I would have a play. The optimum powder for 50s looks like N150, I certainly hope so as I have invested in a tub !!. Edi, Have a play with the programme above and look at your drops/drifts, up to 300 yards there is not a lot in it between a .220 Swift and a 20BR when using the same weight bullet, over that Swift takes a beating but I have not checked your .22 heavy bullets. Be an interesting excercise to run. I do take your very valid point about being deer legal which of course the 20 is certainly not. Mind you technically A max etc I dont think are deer legal. A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejg223 Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 A, if one goes towards 300 yds one needs to dial in anyway so a click more or less wouldn't hurt me. A tight twist swift or 22-250 would interest me to play around with 75gr upward. The 223AI with a tight twist seems to be a popular deer caliber for a few experts in USA at the moment. I don't target shoot so the ultimate is not as important as reliability. If one has a slower caliber then the a-max works very well on deer, about the same as SST. Funny, had a look at berger site, who has the best bc? 20,22,6mm?? it's 22! (by a hair) edi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris-NZ Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Chris, I think 2' = 2foot at 500I also fell for it. edi That'd be roight (said in me best Irish accent) Chris-NZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casts_by_fly Posted January 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 Assume the drop at "500" is a typo??Starting at 3800 with a 200yd zero, the rough drop at 300 will be about 4" cheers Chris-NZ Hi Chris, No typo. Drop at 500 is 2' (24"). What did you think I said? Does the single quote mean something else in NZ? Thanks, Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casts_by_fly Posted January 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 I think we can all agree that under 300 yards, clicks are unimportant (for a long range run) and speed dominates. Beyond 300 BC's start to come into play. With that said, really high speed with a decent BC will be close enough to make it worth running the numbers to compare against a great BC and not as much speed. If you want to compare the 55 berger at 3800 to a 75 Amax at 3600 (22-243 velocities) then you'll see that they are essentially identical for drop all the way out to 1000 yards. The 75 Amax will have a bit less wind drift (12" at 100 yards) but at the cost of ~10-20% more powder and twice the recoil. If you go to the 90 gr JKVLD at 3100 it is no comparison (unless windage is your concern, then you save a bunch at distance). I agree that this wouldn't be a deer rifle by any stretch. But for stretching out a varmint gun (i.e. a low recoil, frequent shooting, small targets) these 55's could be sweet. I can see why the prarie dog shooters in the states are getting excited about them. And, for the guys that have the big 20's already, this would be another option. Would I build a 1000 yard gun around it? Probably not. Would it get there handily? Probably so. For mid range varmints (400-600) I don't know that there is anything to beat it. Of course all of this is assuming you can get it up to 3800 with reasonable accuracy. Thanks, Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejg223 Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 Totally legal and totally inhumane is what gets me. Begginers using something like a 156gr elk bullet in factory ammo for the swede, well it has deer written all over it. They will then tell you about the clean miss. This ammo will just pencil through a roe or sika because of the very low velocity and wrong bullet design. This is one reason for the bad press on the swede. The swede would be way better off loaded with a 140gr a-max or 129gr sst (what many do). Way less runners. The Germans are always cribbing that their roe are so tough to kill with 7x64, 308 and 3006. wow! because they use heavy bullets designed for boar. They might as well be using FMJ. The 22-250 would kill them better with the right bullet. I think the a-max is ok or even very suitable for slower calibers on deer. Maybe the law must learn.??? edi err, what was the thread about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tiff Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 That new bullet sounds excellent. As for bullets, if it works I use it and don't care what the box says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycidon Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 I think we have drifted a fair way from the original thread. We have been here before with this issue and frankly it just goes round in circles. Probably time to call it a day before anyone gets upset. A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycidon Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 The Berger page is down at present but when I last checked the 20 cal 50 grainer is shown as hunting AND target but both types have the same part number !. I bought some hunting ones, had them entered but they look pretty identical to their bigger caliber match bullets. A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycidon Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 Anyway I have convinced Norman Clarke's lady that they do exist and have asked her to order me a box on their next order. She believes that they will be classified as expanding here, that is not an issue for me but could be for some. A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wsm Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Right this thread has been cleaned up of the insults and accusations that have nothing to with the topic Its quite clear that there will never be agreement on this until things are defined more accurately by the powers that be If you`ve got a valid point to make please make it without resorting to bitching or this thread will be removed forthwith Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootingbags Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 Can we now pleaaasssseeee get back to the original thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootingbags Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 A new thread has now been started to be used for the topic of bullets for deer . Please now only use this thread in relation to the original topic of a berger 20 cal 55gr bullet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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