Cleaning regime

[clover]

I'm sure this subjective topic has been done to death but I'd love to hear of your approach to cleaning your centrefire, or some links to approaches you'd endorse.

I'm currently in possession of all the gear (Tipton 1pc CFRP rod and bore guide, phosphor-bronze brushes, jag, Proshot patches, KG oil, carbon and copper solvent) but sadly no idea.

After each range visit I've settled on 2-3 passes breech to muzzle with the PB brush and carbon solvent (allowing 5-10 mins between each to let it work), then a further 5 passes with the brush and no solvent, dry patches until they come out dry, then if still showing carbon on the patches, one wet patch with solvent followed by a couple of dry ones repeated until they come out clean. After this it's a patch with copper solvent on, left for 5-10 mins then 1-2 passes with the PB brush, then dry patches; the process repeated until they come out clean of copper residue. To finish it gets an oiled patch before the gun goes away then a dry one before the rifle is next used. 

After 150 rounds on a new (Tikka) barrel there seems to be very little copper fouling visible in the bore and last clean I saw none come out on the patches (although it's possible it may have come out beforehand with the brushing). From a cold / clean barrel there appears to be little to no POI deviation from subsequent shots, however over the course of 17 rounds (with one exception) the groups did seem to shrink from bang on a minute to around 0.65MOA; of course this could have been my influence too.

So.. does the above sound alright? Would you recommend fully cleaning after every use or after a set number of rounds (and if so what ballpark would you suggest?). Is full cleaning every time the way to go, or would it be better to just swab out the carbon and oil after every use then attack the copper periodically / after a set amount of shots?

Thanks - coming from a background of things that fire slow, pure lead projectiles bore cleaning is somewhat of an alien concept...

[Popsbengo]

Don't wear your barrel out scrubbing it with a bronze brush! 😉   Over cleaning is at best a waste of time and money, at worst damaging.  Watch knocking the muzzle crown with the steel rod.  I clean at the end of a session whether that's 25 rounds or 100 rounds.  Cleaning in-between strings at the range is  - well I'll keep my opinion to myself...

Put the phosphor bronze brush aside for when it's really needed and get some nylon brushes (Pro-shot are good).  Do let the solvent have a good soak so it does the work rather than your scrubbing.  I don't think there's any need to clean with copper remover every time.  By the way, copper solvent will attack your phosphor bronze brush and brass jag giving you the impression there's copper.  Pro-shot do an aluminium jag and non-bronze bodied nylon brush.   I like cut patches but they're no better than good old 4x2, just convenient as I keep a jar with cut patches soaking in solvent so it's a simple matter to fish one out and apply.

I find Patch-Out and Tactical Advantage to be excellent but I reckon most fouling solvents are pretty much of a muchness (except in £££)

Agree with a dry patch down the bore before shooting, standard Army practice to remove any residual oil.  Also helps prove there's nowt stuck up there.

 

 

[Mattnall]

Cleaning is one of those things that will work if you think it does.

If you are constantly worrying about whether you used the right regime or not when you should be worrying about sight picture and the other marksmanship principles it will impact your shooting. If the bore is too clean the first shot won't go where the last shot did so then you'll need fouling shot(s). I've not seen a .30cal barrel become a .20cal through not cleaning but I have seen a sub-MOA group become a super-MOA group through bad cleaning.

The action and outside of the firearm, that's a different matter.

[clover]

Thanks for your thoughts chaps!

1 hour ago, Popsbengo said:

Don't wear your barrel out scrubbing it with a bronze brush! 😉   Over cleaning is at best a waste of time and money, at worst damaging.  Watch knocking the muzzle crown with the steel rod.  I clean at the end of a session whether that's 25 rounds or 100 rounds.  Cleaning in-between strings at the range is  - well I'll keep my opinion to myself...

Put the phosphor bronze brush aside for when it's really needed and get some nylon brushes (Pro-shot are good).  Do let the solvent have a good soak so it does the work rather than your scrubbing.  I don't think there's any need to clean with copper remover every time.  By the way, copper solvent will attack your phosphor bronze brush and brass jag giving you the impression there's copper.  Pro-shot do an aluminium jag and non-bronze bodied nylon brush.   I like cut patches but they're no better than good old 4x2, just convenient as I keep a jar with cut patches soaking in solvent so it's a simple matter to fish one out and apply.

I find Patch-Out and Tactical Advantage to be excellent but I reckon most fouling solvents are pretty much of a muchness (except in £££)

Agree with a dry patch down the bore before shooting, standard Army practice to remove any residual oil.  Also helps prove there's nowt stuck up there.

 

 

I hear where you're coming from re. the PB brush and will stick some nylon ones on the shopping list. That said in my defense it only goes one way down the bore and there's no scrubbing involved! From the instances I've tried to use patches only I've really struggled to get the carbon fouling out so I think a brush of some sort is required; how long do you typically leave the solvent in the bore for before taking it out?

There should be little danger to the crown as the rod is carbon fibre & brass, and only gets inserted from the breech end. I think my rod fittings are Tipton or Pro-shot; the PB brush appears to have an ally mount and the jag looks like nickelled brass. Thanks for the tip on the copper solvent - the brush always gets washed off with boiling water when it's been used with the stuff.

Certainly no danger of catching me cleaning mid-shoot on the range (unless accuracy's suddenly gone south)! Do you have any thoughts on chamber cleaning? I'm always a bit paranoid about solvents or oil accumulating in the chamber..

I'll give the solvents you suggest a look next time I'm in the market for some; although thankfully the stuff I have seems to be lasting well!

 

3 minutes ago, Mattnall said:

Cleaning is one of those things that will work if you think it does.

If you are constantly worrying about whether you used the right regime or not when you should be worrying about sight picture and the other marksmanship principles it will impact your shooting. If the bore is too clean the first shot won't go where the last shot did so then you'll need fouling shot(s). I've not seen a .30cal barrel become a .20cal through not cleaning but I have seen a sub-MOA group become a super-MOA group through bad cleaning.

The action and outside of the firearm, that's a different matter.

This balance is of course what I'm trying to achieve! It seems that at one extreme we have excessive fouling, corrosion, accuracy degradation and reduced barrel life from not cleaning enough; at the other the potential for bore damage, further accuracy loss and poor first-shot performance through excessive cleaning. We all want to be at the optimum point between these extremes but it seems that nobody can agree on where (and I appreciate will vary between guns to an extent)..

Paranoid as I am, thankfully my shooting's not yet being impacted by concerns over cleaning but I'm conflicted - after 20 rounds do I leave the gun alone to retaining the apparently improved grouping that comes with a bit of fouling; at the potential risk of promoting corrosion / making the fouling harder to remove in future? Alternatively do I clean, knowing that if I'm only putting 20-30 shots down it that maybe half will be less precise than they could be?

Thankfully, as per my OP the rifle's POI seems pretty insensitive to cleaning; unlike my rimfire which always put the first shot 20mm or so high at 20yd from a cold or clean bore..

 

[ergid]

My T3 in 223 is the same, shoots better after 20+ rounds, I pull a few patches through after 50 + rounds but will clean- oil the rest of the action more often.

When I deep clean I will tape up the Muzzel and fill the barrel with solvent and let it soak in overnight.

Only nylon brushes req after the good soaking.😜 

[clover]

On 10/14/2019 at 10:19 PM, ergid said:

My T3 in 223 is the same, shoots better after 20+ rounds, I pull a few patches through after 50 + rounds but will clean- oil the rest of the action more often.

When I deep clean I will tape up the Muzzel and fill the barrel with solvent and let it soak in overnight.

Only nylon brushes req after the good soaking.😜 

Thanks - so we currently have one for cleaning after every use and one for not 😛

How often are you "deep cleaning" the barrel? How many rounds are you getting out of it before accuracy falls off? 

I'm currently not doing much to the rest of the gun barring brushing off any contamination and a light oiling of the metalwork, but then so far it's only seen the range in good weather so thankfully hasn't (IMO) needed any attention beyond what it's had.

[ergid]

Hi I deep clean after 100 rounds, the reason for this is that I reload and make a batch of 100 rounds so a few fouling rounds then try the new batch. To be honest I haven't shot so many rounds before cleaning that I see a change in accuracy.

I will inspect every screw , grease the bolt  lightly clean and grease the thread for the mod ,

Have a look at the gun sling + the swivels,I've had 2 instances where the swivels have broken.😱

This is My method for cleaning, everyone has their own, you need to have confidence in your equipment for you to shoot at your best.,+ safely.

  

 

 

[KABOOM]

I no longer use bronze brushes, nylon is the way, however you cant harm steel with bronze its softer. I use nylon brushes due to the copper removers eating bronze. I clean after a season, or weather or in the case of corrosive ammo after the shoot. rimmfires when I feel sorry for them, shotgun about the same. When I competed NRA Smallbore about 4 month intervals and then planned on 20 foulers to regain zero.