Remmy308 Posted June 16, 2019 Report Share Posted June 16, 2019 Looking into a new scope for my creed and have settled on either the PST 2 or the Razor HD gen 2 Has anyone got any real world experience with the 2 of them. Comments and advice would be greatly appreciated.! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popsbengo Posted June 16, 2019 Report Share Posted June 16, 2019 Both good, the Razor has quite a bit more elevation adjustment (I swapped a PST for a Razor). The Razor is also FFP and quite a bit more expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remmy308 Posted June 16, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2019 The elevation side of things doesn’t really matter as I have a 20moa rail on the rifle. Both I’m looking at would be FFP,it was more a question on glass quality comparison. Im aware of the price difference which isn’t a factor,I’m just trying to work out if the extra £1k is worth the difference between the scopes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One on top of two Posted June 16, 2019 Report Share Posted June 16, 2019 the PST gen 2 and the Razor HD gen 2 have the same elevation, well nearly PST has 70 MOA and Razor HD has 71 MOA I use and PST gen 2 on my little remmy 700 5R gen 2 with a 24" barrel and with a flat rail and mounts I have more then enough elevation to get me out past 1200 yards . the pst is a fantastic bit of kit . ( I have two of them ) both in Mrad and they both work faultlessly. Easily worth the money in my opinion. in fact yesterday I took my 6.5 Creedmoor and PST gen 2 to the range and was smashing 1000 yard . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popsbengo Posted June 16, 2019 Report Share Posted June 16, 2019 Somethings wrong here: I was comparing mil scopes and they are - PST Gen2 5-25 x50 is 20Mil elevation Razor Gen2 4.5 - 27x56 is 28.5 Mil elevation (hence why I wanted one) Moa scopes are, as you point out 70 & 71 moa. This is odd indeed and I'm emailing Vortex for an explanation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One on top of two Posted June 16, 2019 Report Share Posted June 16, 2019 12 minutes ago, Popsbengo said: Somethings wrong here: I was comparing mil scopes and they are - PST Gen2 5-25 x50 is 20Mil elevation Razor Gen2 4.5 - 27x56 is 28.5 Mil elevation (hence why I wanted one) Moa scopes are, as you point out 70 & 71 moa. This is odd indeed and I'm emailing Vortex for an explanation Yeah see what they say , in fact I have just put a tier one 20 moa rail on mine and I now have a total of 23.5 mils from my zero 😎which is giving me 80.79 moa Amount : 23.5 milli-radians (mrad of angle)Equals : 80.79 minutes (' , MOA / angle) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popsbengo Posted June 16, 2019 Report Share Posted June 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, One on top of two said: Yeah see what they say , in fact I have just put a tier one 20 moa rail on mine and I now have a total of 23.5 mils from my zero 😎which is giving me 80.79 moa Amount : 23.5 milli-radians (mrad of angle)Equals : 80.79 minutes (' , MOA / angle) I have 6 Mrad of rail on my .338LM. I'm looking for a scope that will give me adjustment out past 2000yds. My PST was maxed out at 1mile and I held a further 3 Mrad ! (+18 up from 100yd zero). The Razor, with another 6 Mrad in the mount, will be more capable provided the spec is correct!! (Having checked out Youtube etc it would seem correct). I'll report when Vortex get back to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One on top of two Posted June 16, 2019 Report Share Posted June 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, Popsbengo said: I have 6 Mrad of rail on my .338LM. I'm looking for a scope that will give me adjustment out past 2000yds. My PST was maxed out at 1mile and I held a further 3 Mrad ! (+18 up from 100yd zero). The Razor, with another 6 Mrad in the mount, will be more capable provided the spec is correct!! (Having checked out Youtube etc it would seem correct). I'll report when Vortex get back to me. 👍 be interested to know what’s what , I’m with you though it’s a little confusing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remmy308 Posted June 16, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2019 So it’s safe to say the PST 2 isn’t a million miles off the clarity of the razor and if I’m only pushing out to 1200 I’ll have plenty of elevation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One on top of two Posted June 16, 2019 Report Share Posted June 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Remmy308 said: So it’s safe to say the PST 2 isn’t a million miles off the clarity of the razor and if I’m only pushing out to 1200 I’ll have plenty of elevation To do 1200 yards with my creedmoor I Needed 12.5 Mrad /43 ish MOA . Before I put my 20 moa rail on I had around 17-18 mrad so even with a flat rail and mounts I can STILL do it 👍, your be fine . P.s the above is with a 136 scenar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remmy308 Posted June 16, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2019 Cheers for the input guys.! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popsbengo Posted June 17, 2019 Report Share Posted June 17, 2019 On 6/16/2019 at 5:32 PM, Popsbengo said: Re: Vortex Razor Gen11 I'll report when Vortex get back to me. OK, I have feedback from Cody at Vortex: "Thanks for your interest in Vortex Optics! That is true and you will get more adjustment out of the MRAD version of that optic and it will be the 28.5 MRAD we have advertised on our website. I hope this helps and finds you well. If you have any more questions or concerns just let me know, I would be happy to help anytime!" No explanation why but confirmation that the mrad scope has more elevation than the moa scope. Ho-hum, doesn't matter anyway to me as the Vortex 4.5-27x56 is now unavailable in the UK and on up to four months back-order according to the importer. Their loss is S&B's gain (and my wallet needs an extra squeeze). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJR Posted June 17, 2019 Report Share Posted June 17, 2019 Have a look at Kahles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popsbengo Posted June 17, 2019 Report Share Posted June 17, 2019 26 minutes ago, MJR said: Have a look at Kahles. Also unavailable at the moment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodlander Posted June 17, 2019 Report Share Posted June 17, 2019 I think the Kahles is the better scope,all round. Optical quality, turrets and reticle choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One on top of two Posted June 17, 2019 Report Share Posted June 17, 2019 Which Kahles are we talking ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popsbengo Posted June 17, 2019 Report Share Posted June 17, 2019 2 hours ago, One on top of two said: Which Kahles are we talking ? K624i and K525i. Nowhere to be found in the UK - plenty of ads but no actual stock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJR Posted June 19, 2019 Report Share Posted June 19, 2019 I have a K525i. I have put it on a rifle but have yet to zero it. However the quality appears excellent and the glass is to my eyes very good. The turret clicks are positive and the turrets are well marked. Like the 624i the parallax being under the elevation turret is very good for a left hander. With the illumination turret being opposite to the windage turret this gives far more adjustment for scope rings over a PMII. The Kahles scope caps are also very good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treetop Posted June 19, 2019 Report Share Posted June 19, 2019 I think this thread has dived off on a tangent.. The OP asked about 2 vortex scopes, presumably because he likes Vortex scopes & Most probably because the warrantee. Personaly , I've looked through a PST2 and I like what I see, I've not looked through a Razor gen2, but do know its heavy - probably due to the weight of the glass, as I don't think an extra 4mm of tube weighs that much. The Differance in locking turrets makes me lean towards it , but as the OP asked, the laws of deminshed returns, like F1, mean that small gains cost lots. But is there that much extra to be had in performance of the glass for the extra cost ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popsbengo Posted June 19, 2019 Report Share Posted June 19, 2019 Bit of a moot point now as new Razor 4.5-27 x 56 are unavailable for about four months (according to the importers). I have looked through both the PST and Razor - the razor is better for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One on top of two Posted June 19, 2019 Report Share Posted June 19, 2019 3 hours ago, Popsbengo said: Bit of a moot point now as new Razor 4.5-27 x 56 are unavailable for about four months (according to the importers). I have looked through both the PST and Razor - the razor is better for sure. I totally agree with the above , but the razor is a lot more money , in the 1K bracket I think the PST gen2 does take some beating , unfortunately for us we sort of get what we pay for ( weather that represents good value that’s your call ) I have just bought a new Leupold mark 5 HD 5-25-56 and it destroys the PM2s in every way , but it costs more 🤔 when it comes to optics , buy what suits your eyes and the best your budget will allow . And not hung up on what the knob in the next lane is using . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remmy308 Posted June 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2019 The reason for going for the vortex was always a fine line between the lifetime guarantee and the glass quality. The price difference was never the factor as I have the budget to suit either,I was just trying to find out if the £1000 price differences between the 2 scopes was totally justified (is the razor £1000 better than the PST2) in people’s opinion. Im happy to wait for vortex to start shipping to the UK again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob edwards Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 Quote so gents do you think they are as good as a Swaro Z5 in 5-25x52 with a BT novice to target shooting and I am not sure about this swaro at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popsbengo Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 5 hours ago, Bob edwards said: Good scope, ballistic turret is a waste of time but it will work if you make notes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob edwards Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 Quote I used the Swaro app and the dial out is way off I put in all the right info, but still no joy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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