204 Ruger, effective killing range.

[Aussie Foxer]

Hi fellow forum members, I have just purchased new Tikka T3X Super Varmint in 204 cal.

 

I have topped it of with Sportsmatch mounts and a Meopta Meostar 3-12 x56 with illuminated 4C ret.

 

I am new to this calibre and would like to know the maximum range I could shoot foxes at ?

 

I realise that my ability has to be taken into account, most of my shooting is done either from a bipod or bench bags on the vehicle. Most likely 40 grain V Max factory will be my ammo of choice.

 

Would 300 yards be too far for a clean kill with a well placed shot?

I'm trying to work out my maximum point blank range.

 

Any advice much appreciated and a merry Christmas to you all from a hot Australia.

[Chris-NZ]

Can't comment on foxes (coz there ain't none in NZ) but that factory load supposedly doing 3900 is pretty flat shooting.

 

After a 10 sec play on the ballistics prog, a 230yd zero with this load is only 3.1" low at 300 so I'd say that's well within a reasonable PBR for a fox-size animal. Don't know how much wind you suffer over there but if there's some, that'll be the bigger variable in my experience. My gunsmith/mate has the std varmint T3 and that's a real tackdriver but it sure suffers in the wind..

 

Been mild here but heading to 31C on Tues. Prob still a lot milder than you're "enjoying". Don't overdo the VB/4X/Fosters/whatever...

[gbal]

204 Ruger : Hornady 40g VMax @ 3900 factory ammo;drop/drift inches,energy ft lb; 200y zero,10mph wind:

 

100y .7/.8 1077

200y 0/3.3 855

300y 4.3/7.8 674

400y 13.2/14.7 526

 

gbal

[Tikka4Sika]

500 yds if you can hit them, maybe 600 but 500 seems to be the furthest reliable range for the .204.

[gbal]

The figures are:

 

500y 28.1/24.4 404

 

600y 58.6/37.4 306

 

 

gbal

[Sherlock]

The figures are:

 

500y 28.1/24.4 404

 

600y 58.6/37.4 306

 

 

gbal

 

HI G.

Thing is - these figure will be SO far out as to be worthless.

 

The velocity of 3900 fps (although stated on the ammo box and Hornady website) I can only assume this was obtained using a VERY long barrel. - 26 inches. I will be shocked if the MV is over 3650 fps in a 20 " barrel

 

The BC of 40 grn Vmax is actually 0.250 - not 0.275 - SHOCK another figure shamelessly hyped up to make the 204 appear ballistically better than it is. Yes its a fantastic cal - but lets get real here.

 

Below is an extract from the 204 review conducted by Gunmart

 

 

Truth is, 204 Ruger is a critical cartridge in terms of twist rate, velocity and barrel length and one of the few reloading options I have never managed to match factory figures with either. So if it’s the speed of the 204 that turns your crank then stick with a 26” barrel, as that’s what Hornady uses to get their data and don’t bother reloading either as it’s impossible to get near those figures!

 

When I first got my VT I left it at 26” and the figures I was achieving with factory 32 and 40-grain ammo were not that far off the quote. However, I cut it back two inches and fitted a moderator, which showed a drop in velocity. A friend of mine took off four inches and now regrets it! Here’s what my 24” VT produces. Note all speeds are average from a 3-shot string.

 

32-grain V-MAX

Hornady factory | 24” Ruger VT

4225 fps/1268 ft/lbs | 4102 fps/1195 ft/lbs

 

40-grain V-MAX

3900 fps/ 1351 ft/lbs | 3618 fps/1162 ft/lbs

45-grain SP

3625 fps/ 1313 ft/lbs | 3403 fps/1156 ft/lbs

 

 

Merry Christmas - HO-HO-HO

.

[Sherlock]

Would 300 yards be too far for a clean kill with a well placed shot?

I'm trying to work out my maximum point blank range.IMG_2665.JPG

 

Any advice much appreciated and a merry Christmas to you all from a hot Australia.

 

Hi Buddy.

Yes a 300 yard clean kill shot on a fox is very doable, although much will depend on the shooting conditions.

The fly in the ointment with all the light weight bullets , is wind drift. A mild 7 mph cross wind can push the bullet wide of the kill zone and result in a wound or a miss..

 

On a more technical note - how you will allow for the drop and drift - are you going to dial in - or aim over ?

If it is the later - have you got a reticule that assists this. I assume you also have a range finder.

 

If you can hit a clay pigeon sized target every time, then you can put the pill into the kill zone of a fox with sufficient energy to ensure a clean kill. Realistically 350 yrds - in perfect conditions and well practiced , with a diallable scope .. is the furthest I would shoot a fox.

 

500 or 600 yrds as been suggested on this thread is WAY too far to be confident of a clean kill on an animal the size of a fox IME..

 

 

Nice set up BTW

 

 

ATB

S

[gbal]

Alan,I just gave the figures without comment,for brevity.

Really,they were just to indicate-in figures- what the cartridge might do-and what it can't (crows at 600y in strong wind..oops,a comment!)

SAAMI standard barrel length is 24 inches.Maybe Hornady used a longer barrel. I'd guesstimate MV loss around 35/40 fps oer barrel inch ?

There seems to be some ambitious BC -ing around; and some fussing over Nosler's recent claims:at least Sierra give three speed band values-would that all did. Bryan LItz' test values perhaps the most relable data.

 

Anyhow,the figuresare what we have-but there are more.

Let's grant that the Hornady "figures on the box" are unlikely to be bettered.....perhaps not replicated in reloading....but also take on board just what effects BC and MV are likely to have at 300 or 400 yards.....

Let's look at more published data from other ammo makers.....with the Hornady:

 

Hornady 32g VMax BC .210 @4225 300 4.1/9.8 400 13.1/18.7

Remington 32g AccuTip .207 @4225 300 4.1/10.1 400 13.1/18.7

Winchester 32g Ball Tip .206 @ 4050 300 4.6/10.6 400 14.7/20.2 so175 fps adds about .5 inch at 300;and 1.5 at 400

Federal 32G Nosler BT .207 @ 4030 300 4.7/10.6 400 14.9/20.2 ditto fr 195 fps

 

Hornady 40g V Max BC .275 @3900 300 4.3/7.8 400 13.2/14.7

Remington 40gAccuTip .257 @3900 300 4.3/8.6 400 13.2/16.2 lower BC shows some effect on drift :inch to inchand half

Federal 40G Sierra BK .287 @3750 300 4.7/7.8 400 14.1/14.7 better BC compensates 150 fps MV at 300,less so at 400

Nosler 40g Ball Tip .239 @3625 300 5.5/10.2 400 17.2/19.3 low BC and MV increase D/D, esp by 400y

 

OK,even if there are multiple manufacturers being economical with the ballistics, a careful reading can still set some sensible limits for the excellent 204s sensible ranges. Not useless,then,and all that we have on a cold windy non test fire day! But a start.

 

300y seems OK, 400 is 'iffy'.....which is why I didn't even include 500 at first....(the 40 Nosler is 37.1/32.6).

 

As ever,ballistics are only established by firing and careful measurement for the specific rifle /ammo used.

That will add in shooter accuracy factors too,but those cannot improve the ballistics.

 

atb

g

ps agree with your comments -we are on the same page/clay pigeon!

[Tikka4Sika]

This shows how 500yds is possible with a .204 factory rifle and home loads.

 

[Sherlock]

Nobody is doubting that you can hit a 6" steel target at 600 yrds. Pinkling a target at 500 yrds is piss easy and irrelevant to the question . After all if you miss the first and second shot - you can walk it in until your on the money.

 

This is a totally different situation than having a fox 600 yrds away and making a confident kill with one shot. The bullets expand far less - foxes are often on the move.

 

I don't believe there are many people out there who would believe the 204 is suitable for 600 yrds fox shooting - least I hope not.

 

 

S

[baldie]

I bought a VT when they first appeared in .204 and what a tool it was.

 

At the time, myself and a friend were foxing on average 4 time a week, on many ,many thousands of acres. My friend worked for one of the big water utilities and we basically had free reign over an awful lot of land.

 

Our method was simple. The lamp we used was a night force Blitz with an orange filter. Through initially using a range finder, then experience, we found that this lamp on a clear night, would illuminate a fox clearly up to 300 yards, and by that, i mean completely clearly, not just a fuzzy shape with eyes. Much past that, the animal became fuzzy. It was a very good method of range finding.

 

We used to leave the fuzzy ones, thus restricting the range to 300 yards.

 

That rifle killed over 500 foxes in the time I had it, and the odd runner was down to pilot error.

 

Never took a daytime fox past 300 yards with it, so couldn,t comment really, but it was a hell of a tool for lamping, and very forgiving on range estimation if you were a little out.

[gbal]

Thanks,Dave so that's 500+ foxes under 300y. Entirely consistent with the figures.

 

S-absolutely,nails it.

 

Tikka4sika, as Sherlock says,"possible" under pretty good conditions isn't really the point.

 

The video does not say if any sighters/walk in shots preceeded the four recorded shots.

Four shots are rather a small sample.

The video is honest enough to admit one miss in four shots.

Wind seems very light-grass scarcely moving-3 mph,OK (that would be 7" drift) so 1moa adjust (5") keeps on gong.

Drop would not be less than 30"(that's for 3750fps MV,higher than the 3610fps ammo used) so 6moa;"30 clicks" is given-though 2/3 impacts are a tad high,one miss over the top.Laser ranging,reliable clicks essential.

 

I'd be guided by Dave's field experience,and sample size,also consistent with the ballistic numbers.

But if you want to shoot (at) gongs,it would be interesting to get real data on success %,in various conditions.

 

I'd still emphasise that live quarry shooting is not to be equated with serious target shooting,or plinking-and vice versa.

 

gbal

[snakeman]

Even if the calibre was capable, any calibre for that matter, another question will be; 'is the shooter capable"? ...500 or 600yds is a bloody long way on a fox and way too many variables involved. I have declined a shot many times for these reasons, at 600yds and a lot less. If at this distance my idea is to track the quarry using fieldcraft which I learn and continue to develop. It makes for a far more rewarding experience trying to outwit a fox - try it some time, it's hard

 

I would go as far to say I have not even attempted a shot at 400yds on a fox in good weather, even with a .243 which is more than enough gun to do the job - respect the animal, respect the land and, respect your limitations over the variables & distances

[Tikka4Sika]

Nobody is doubting that you can hit a 6" steel target at 600 yrds. Pinkling a target at 500 yrds is piss easy and irrelevant to the question . After all if you miss the first and second shot - you can walk it in until your on the money.

 

This is a totally different situation than having a fox 600 yrds away and making a confident kill with one shot. The bullets expand far less - foxes are often on the move.

 

I don't believe there are many people out there who would believe the 204 is suitable for 600 yrds fox shooting - least I hope not.

 

 

S

Thats why I suggested 500yds was the max realistic distance.

[gbal]

T4S, 500y -realistic on the moon maybe-there is very little gravity and no wind! Alas,no fox either-must all have been shot. :-)

 

gbal

[Tikka4Sika]

T4S, 500y -realistic on the moon maybe-there is very little gravity and no wind! Alas,no fox either-must all have been shot. :-)

 

gbal

Try getting out into the field once in a while , even in the UK we do occasionally get ideal weather and no moon dust in your action

[Mark Jones]

Just brought the same rifle and am keen to find out. I agree you need to do your part but you should know what you can do. Mine is shooting sub inch @ 200yds so I would think I could shoot out to 350yds safely but work up and not down, if it won't kill cleanly @250 with 39BK's then I've brought the wrong rifle. Not sure wind/drop is the issue here, isn't retained energy the deciding factor. I know I've never needed to shoot them over 300 so guess you will make your own conclusions soon, let me know. I'd guess well placed shots at 400 would ensure humane results?

[simonl]

Back to the original question... 300 yards is not unreasonable in calm conditions, but you really need to be holding over or dialling in beyond 250, not assuming PBR up to 300

[pork chop]

Mate of mine dropped a fox at well over 300y ,39gr sbk front on chest dead on the spot,only thing I found is best to keep off the shoulder

[Mark Jones]

Back to the original question... 300 yards is not unreasonable in calm conditions, but you really need to be holding over or dialling in beyond 250, not assuming PBR up to 300

Accuracy isn't the issue here at all, I think most will agree the round will be too weak before accuracy is lost. Does anyone have GPs info for a 20" barrel and can then work out a ft/lb figure

[gbal]

Mark,the 204 shot well and within its limitations,is a decent fox cartridge.If you can shoot one moa at 100,you should have the accuracy for 200,and 250 (300 maybe-though dispersion is not simply linear,andd it's first shot that matters in fox shooting).

 

Yes,retained energy is an issue-which is why I gave the retained energies in my first post on this-but they are all so clearly above any reasonable minimum that it seeemed unneccessary to repeat.(While very few would advocate a 22rf on fox,it has been used with effect-but not reliably-and that cartridge (standard/sub) has about 75 ft lb at 75 y,and around 79 at 100y...so that is perhaps too low-the 204 40g@3750 has around 785 ft lb at 200y,625ft lb at 300y ,490 at 400y. Your 250 yards should be fine and give some leeway on d/d errors of range/wind,which helps (Dave's field use point).

The Nosler 40g@3625 data should ball park 20" barrels: 200y ft lb 682,300y 512,400y 377(maybe a bit less,say another 25 -50 ft lb-rifles are individual....and few duplicate some factory ammo-but still "plenty left" at 300y.

 

Given the bullets available,and fox construction/size there won't be much issue with adequate penetration to deliver vital damage,avoiding through and through shots-or violent surface only wounding.

A 'well placed shot at 400y' would generally be effective (tho' less leeway eg on bone deflection) but it's rather question begging-THE issue remains : actually being able to place that shot at 400y,which is where d/d need careful attention,and no small skill in most conditions.300 is hard enough for most shooters,and well over the modal (most frequent) range at which fox are humanely dispatched (probably well under 200y)

 

gbal

[Mark Jones]

Mark,the 204 shot well and within its limitations,is a decent fox cartridge.If you can shoot one moa at 100,you should have the accuracy for 200,and 250 (300 maybe-though dispersion is not simply linear,andd it's first shot that matters in fox shooting).

Yes,retained energy is an issue-which is why I gave the retained energies in my first post on this-but they are all so clearly above any reasonable minimum that it seeemed unneccessary to repeat.(While very few would advocate a 22rf on fox,it has been used with effect-but not reliably-and that cartridge (standard/sub) has about 75 ft lb at 75 y,and around 79 at 100y...so that is perhaps too low-the 204 40g@3750 has around 785 ft lb at 200y,625ft lb at 300y ,490 at 400y. Your 250 yards should be fine and give some leeway on d/d errors of range/wind,which helps (Dave's field use point).

The Nosler 40g@3625 data should ball park 20" barrels: 200y ft lb 682,300y 512,400y 377(maybe a bit less,say another 25 -50 ft lb-rifles are individual....and few duplicate some factory ammo-but still "plenty left" at 300y.

Given the bullets available,and fox construction/size there won't be much issue with adequate penetration to deliver vital damage,avoiding through and through shots-or violent surface only wounding.

A 'well placed shot at 400y' would generally be effective (tho' less leeway eg on bone deflection) but it's rather question begging-THE issue remains : actually being able to place that shot at 400y,which is where d/d need careful attention,and no small skill in most conditions.300 is hard enough for most shooters,and well over the modal (most frequent) range at which fox are humanely dispatched (probably well under 200y)

gbal

Didn't see retained energy in first post, must be how the day has gone, in that case you make a perfect point, and as you said I haven't found the need for 300+ yds shots on fox either

[eldon]

To the OP; energy really isn't your concern at all but it will be YOUR ability to judge and correct for wind which will affect the outcome at longer range.

 

My tip, as a 204 user (for what its worth);

Set your scope to 1" high at 100 yds and then limit yourself to 300 yds and you can't go far wrong plus that way your only thing to correct for is wind.

[Mark Jones]

Well, out last night for some Boxingday fun and not what I expected. Shot two foxes both at about 200yds one straight on in the bib and the other side on just behind the shoulder. Both rounds exited. Thought they would be self contained but non the less both animals dropped on the spot with no movement . Good result!

[gbal]

Mark,there you go-bullet performance may vary a little-though the choice in commercially loaded ammo is a bit limited-and is presumably all geared to fox(coyote) size /smaller.Just see how it goes on a larger sample-foxes differ a bit. :-)

 

Eldon-pretty much on the money/ballistics; all the data I quoted earlier has 32g .6" high,40 g .7" high at 100y,for 200y zero......so with an inch high at 100y...around 3"low at 300y with 32g,and maybe 4" low with 40g at 300y.

 

It's reassuring when the field shooting experience duplicates physics/factory data (with very slight individual rifle diffs,perhaps. :-)

 

gbal