7x47 Lapua Wildcat.

[1971silversurfer]

Just wondering if anybody has necked up the x47 case to 7mm for running the heavier bullets greater stability in windier conditions. I currently run a 6.5x47 Lapua already from Baldie.

 

I would be using this rifle on deer and targets through a short action rebarrel. The ballistics look OK, but has anybody tried this calibre in the real world in similar circumstances?

 

Was reading the below article which sparked the interest:

 

http://www.accurateshooter.com/guns-of-week/7x47-lapua-wildcat-cartridge/

 

[gbal]

Hmmmm somebody usually has to....

 

Given though that the 6.5 X47 Lapua is a little behind the 260 rem(6.5-08) we might expect the 7x47 wildcat to be likewise close to,but on the heels of the 7-08.

 

The 24 inch barrel given velocities of the 7x47-160@2600fps- (pressures not known)are above commercial SAAMI 7-08 loadings....which don't run to 180 or even 160 bullets (7-08 150g 2650,140g 2860 fps).

 

We do have plenty evidence that the SAAMI 7-08 is a competent deer cartridge,approximating the earlier 7x57, a midpower standard-often with heavier bullets (160-175g). So....

 

1) the 7x47 is likely to be very similar in field use on deer

 

2) the 7x47 is likely to remain a wildcat

 

3) partly because of likely higher pressure

 

4) it might have a small precision/accuracy edge,and family heritage sometimes matters

 

5) as a Long Range 1000y cartridge it's not close to being in contention (7x47 180g@2770 32" barrel is way behind the decent,but not top 7mm,the Shehane which gives 180@2950 in a shorter barrel....)

 

6) As the wildcatter concludes ,the 'best applicatuon' might be in 16 inch barrel "tactical sniper' rifle,where it will outperform a 308....yes,perhaps but that is a niche indeed.

 

7) none of this is reason enough for someone else not to give it a try,though it might be 'Why not" rather than 'Why'- not an unusual starting place for a wildcat.

 

8) what took them so long? :-)

 

gbal

[1971silversurfer]

I think the intrigue and beauty of this calibre is that so little has been written about it, a fantastic little case and a round that has more potential velocity wise to the 7mm-08; given the little information i have read on it so far.

 

 

As you say Why not?

[gbal]

Silver,well indeed,why not (I'm not going to do it,and not for NIMBY reasons.

The 6,7,30 BR all have their delights and niches,in my experience,but the 6BR is the most generally useful,by a fair bit.

 

Just for the record,I was not recommending the 7x47 as having any clear velocity advantage on very limited data( over the 7-08 specifically) and the comparison is not apples/apples-the wildcatter is probably upping the pressure;and no doubt a 7-08 could be improved...well,MV increased...and a few factors can help-like small primer pockets,rather than large.

No doubt the 7 Creedmore will be championed...

Interestingly though,the 'precision' rifle shooters are going to the 6mm wildcat versions of this 6.5 trio-trio because the 6-08 aka 243 is now in the mix...

 

Nothing wrong with differences without distinctions or distinctons wihout differences...or are these the same,near enough? Does it matter-let's see what comes out!

 

gbal

[baldie]

Think i,d go with the slightly larger 7creedmoor for more engine room personally.

 

When I get a moment, i,m going to have a punt at a 6CM too. The case is just too good.

[terryh]

I was looking at this cartridge a little while back for purely deer use, lightweight, compact rifle, 7 x 50 scope etc.

 

No great advantage over a 7-08 velocity wise but the smaller cartridge design should be more accurate (in theory) and would use less powder = less recoil (if I was making the effort on a compact rifle).

 

but common sense got the better of me and I'll stick with the Swede for now and try some more exotic bullets

 

T

[gbal]

What are the top fifty precision rifle guys favouring (first round hits on gongs to 800y,from 'field' style shooting positions) ...

 

% 6/6.5 for 2012 50/44 2013 50/48 2014 60/40........6mm has overtaken 6.5 -enough puff,less recoil

 

Of the 6s in 2014 6 Creedmoor was 30% 6x47 was 15% and 6XC 6%......6CM clear favourite

 

No data yet on 7mm versions (tho the 7-08 has been a top silhouette choice-there enough clout matters).

 

Go,Dave,go !

 

gbal

[1971silversurfer]

Think i,d go with the slightly larger 7creedmoor for more engine room personally.

 

When I get a moment, i,m going to have a punt at a 6CM too. The case is just too good.

What about the pressure Dave, would you not be able to run the x47 at slightly higher pressures given the primer pocket? or would that just be offset by the increased case capacity of the CM case?

[Laurie]

You've got to ask what benefit do you get from a small capacity seven? If we're talking long-range shooting, the better 140gn 6.5mm bullets either match or slightly better the 7mm Berger 168gn VLD, the obvious high-BC L-R bullet for small sevens and they have higher BCs than the popular Hornady 162gn AMAX 7mm.

 

With the same BCs, small 7s will only give better performance if they can give higher MVs, and the 7mm-08, even in long-freebore form struggles to match 260/6.5 Creedmoor speeds and won't improve on them. So, to get 7mm to a higher performance level than the three mid-size 6.5s, it's necessary to go up to the next bullet weight group, 175-183gn, and although a long-throat 7-08 can use them, I'd suggest you need a larger case and more powder, ie the 284 Win. That's what you'd likely be competing against anyway.

 

For shorter distance competitions, tactical, CSR, McQueens etc, I can't see any great gain from a small seven while it's going to give more recoil than the equivalent performance 6.5, and the US trend has been to reduce calibre to 6mm for the combination of low recoil, suberb accuracy, flat trajectories etc. Much smaller 7mm cartridge sporting development has been based on 140-150gn bullets and in fact 140gn is the heaviest bullet I think that the large ammo manufacturers use. There hasn't been any development of super BC bullets in this weight though for pretty obvious reasons.

 

Yes, I'm sure the 7X47 could make a superb, relatively low velocity combination match round that would still feed well from a magazine, but it won't outperform or even match equivalent sixes or 6.5s. For very high-precision, low recoil, long barrel life use in a single-shot rifle, the long established 7mm BR would probably be a better bet than 7X47 and it's not a wildcat even though you won't find dies etc on every gunshop's shelves. It's notable though how the 7mm version of the BR sees hardly any coverage and it's been largely marginalised to being a specialist number for long-barrel single-shot silhouette and hunting pistols with 130-140gn bullets.

 

So far as the strong (etc, etc) high quality 6.5X47 parent case argument goes .... well, it's no matter to reform Lapua .308 Win small primer 'Palma' brass to 7mm-08, or 7mm Creedmoor, if you must have this type and run these cartridges very hot.

 

7mm will have one advantage over the smaller calibres though, barrel life.

[1971silversurfer]

You've got to ask what benefit do you get from a small capacity seven? If we're talking long-range shooting, the better 140gn 6.5mm bullets either match or slightly better the 7mm Berger 168gn VLD, the obvious high-BC L-R bullet for small sevens and they have higher BCs than the popular Hornady 162gn AMAX 7mm.

 

With the same BCs, small 7s will only give better performance if they can give higher MVs, and the 7mm-08, even in long-freebore form struggles to match 260/6.5 Creedmoor speeds and won't improve on them. So, to get 7mm to a higher performance level than the three mid-size 6.5s, it's necessary to go up to the next bullet weight group, 175-183gn, and although a long-throat 7-08 can use them, I'd suggest you need a larger case and more powder, ie the 284 Win. That's what you'd likely be competing against anyway.

 

For shorter distance competitions, tactical, CSR, McQueens etc, I can't see any great gain from a small seven while it's going to give more recoil than the equivalent performance 6.5, and the US trend has been to reduce calibre to 6mm for the combination of low recoil, suberb accuracy, flat trajectories etc. Much smaller 7mm cartridge sporting development has been based on 140-150gn bullets and in fact 140gn is the heaviest bullet I think that the large ammo manufacturers use. There hasn't been any development of super BC bullets in this weight though for pretty obvious reasons.

 

Yes, I'm sure the 7X47 could make a superb, relatively low velocity combination match round that would still feed well from a magazine, but it won't outperform or even match equivalent sixes or 6.5s. For very high-precision, low recoil, long barrel life use in a single-shot rifle, the long established 7mm BR would probably be a better bet than 7X47 and it's not a wildcat even though you won't find dies etc on every gunshop's shelves. It's notable though how the 7mm version of the BR sees hardly any coverage and it's been largely marginalised to being a specialist number for long-barrel single-shot silhouette and hunting pistols with 130-140gn bullets.

 

So far as the strong (etc, etc) high quality 6.5X47 parent case argument goes .... well, it's no matter to reform Lapua .308 Win small primer 'Palma' brass to 7mm-08, or 7mm Creedmoor, if you must have this type and run these cartridges very hot.

 

7mm will have one advantage over the smaller calibres though, barrel life.

Thanks for the insight Laurie.

[The Gun Pimp]

Think i,d go with the slightly larger 7creedmoor for more engine room personally.

 

When I get a moment, i,m going to have a punt at a 6CM too. The case is just too good.

It will make a nice 'six' but it'll be very close to the 6XC Dave...... Personally, I reckon the 6-6.5x47 Lapua will still come out tops - thanks to its small primer.

[baldie]

Yep, and the xc does have a nice long neck....

 

Re- inventing the wheel methinks.

[1971silversurfer]

Yep, and the xc does have a nice long neck....

 

Re- inventing the wheel methinks.

Gotta keep those rifle builders busy and interested LOL