VarmLR Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 Has anyone got a pet load for this combo? I haven't had a chance yet to get to the range for some thorough load dev time but have been called out to help sort a crow problem at lambing time (I really need to be up there every day for the next week or two) and have plenty of 60g Vmax to hand. 26" 1/8 barrel shoots factory 50grain fine and I've been thinning out the crows with these the past week or two but they're depleted now. Looking at the Viht manual, start load is 22.1 and max load is 24.7. I want to play it safe (and would normally start at 22.1 and work up in .2g intervals) and was thinking of loading a batch at 23.6 to 23.8 to stay well within safe loads (COL at 2.244 so 10 thou off lands). Subject to the usual "start low work up" and "one load will suit one rifle and not another" I'm just after whether anyone has used the 60g Vmax (only please) and what sort of weight of N133 that works well without obvious pressure signs. I have already loaded lower loads and can work up but at the farm, I wont have opportunity for much load dev presently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtrema Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 Has anyone got a pet load for this combo? I haven't had a chance yet to get to the range for some thorough load dev time but have been called out to help sort a crow problem at lambing time (I really need to be up there every day for the next week or two) and have plenty of 60g Vmax to hand. 26" 1/8 barrel shoots factory 50grain fine and I've been thinning out the crows with these the past week or two but they're depleted now. Looking at the Viht manual, start load is 22.1 and max load is 24.7. I want to play it safe (and would normally start at 22.1 and work up in .2g intervals) and was thinking of loading a batch at 23.6 to 23.8 to stay well within safe loads (COL at 2.244 so 10 thou off lands). Subject to the usual "start low work up" and "one load will suit one rifle and not another" I'm just after whether anyone has used the 60g Vmax (only please) and what sort of weight of N133 that works well without obvious pressure signs. I have already loaded lower loads and can work up but at the farm, I wont have opportunity for much load dev presently. I don't shoot with 223 being a 22-250 man. According to QuickLOAD you don't look too far out. Not sure if this helps but here's the summary. Cartridge : .223 Rem. Bullet : .224, 60, Hornady V-MAX FB 22281 Useable Case Capaci: 25.123 grain H2O = 1.631 cm³ Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm Powder : Vihtavuori N133 Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge, incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge. CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads ! Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time % % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms -20.0 89 18.88 2632 923 31265 4788 95.8 1.360 -18.0 91 19.35 2690 964 33403 4899 96.7 1.325 -16.0 94 19.82 2748 1006 35679 5002 97.4 1.292 -14.0 96 20.30 2806 1049 38114 5097 98.1 1.258 -12.0 98 20.77 2863 1092 40721 5184 98.6 1.223 -10.0 100 21.24 2919 1136 43511 5262 99.1 1.189 -08.0 102 21.71 2976 1180 46498 5331 99.4 1.156 -06.0 105 22.18 3031 1224 49672 5391 99.7 1.125 -04.0 107 22.66 3086 1269 53057 5441 99.9 1.095 ! Near Maximum ! -02.0 109 23.13 3140 1314 56682 5481 100.0 1.066 ! Near Maximum ! +00.0 111 23.60 3194 1359 60569 5512 100.0 1.039 ! Near Maximum ! +02.0 114 24.07 3247 1405 64740 5541 100.0 1.012 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE! +04.0 116 24.54 3299 1450 69222 5568 100.0 0.986 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE! +06.0 118 25.02 3351 1496 74043 5593 100.0 0.961 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE! +08.0 120 25.49 3403 1543 79236 5617 100.0 0.937 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE! +10.0 122 25.96 3454 1589 84840 5638 100.0 0.914 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE! Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value: +Ba 111 23.60 3290 1442 71784 5277 100.0 0.977 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE! Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value: -Ba 111 23.60 3047 1237 49595 5676 98.0 1.122 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VarmLR Posted March 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 Many thanks Xtrema. The Viht load data shows 24.7 to be max load whereas QL would suggest that's a dangerous load? I wont be getting close to that. Playing safe and going for a mid load of 23 grains seems reasonable. I'll load at that and check for any pressure signs. If there aren't any, I'll use that for the crow bashing until I can more accurately verify stepped loads at the range Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtrema Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 No worries mate. Now i've put your COL to the correct figure, it comes out even hotter. For your interest, below i have pasted QL's top 5 alternative powders for your load. The columns don't line up though. All of them will sort the crows out :-) Cartridge : .223 Rem. Bullet : .224, 60, Hornady V-MAX FB 22281 Useable Case Capaci: 24.962 grain H2O = 1.621 cm³ Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.244 inch = 57.00 mm Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders. Matching Maximum Pressure: 54570 psi, or 376 MPa or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 100 % These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window. C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations. USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON ! Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time % Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms --------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Lovex D073.5 99.9 24.7 1.60 3156 97.7 54570 6088 1.096 ! Near Maximum ! Accurate 2460 99.6 24.7 1.60 3156 97.7 54570 6088 1.096 ! Near Maximum ! Accurate 2520 100.0 24.3 1.57 3057 96.8 45629 6131 1.164 Rottweil R901 100.0 21.9 1.42 3015 97.4 46497 5871 1.183 Accurate 2495 100.0 22.5 1.46 3009 99.0 41497 6074 1.232 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VarmLR Posted March 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 I have a Kilo of N133 to use up, so will probably stick with that for the time being but thank you anyway for posting some alternatives. Once the 60g are used up, I'll be changing to the newer high(er) BC 53g Vmax. Out of interest, how hot is QL predicting for 23g N133 at 2.44 COL? (I'm assuming it's the 54570 listed above or is that just max psi for 100% fill at that COL?) That's seated .010" off lands which I would have expected to give very little difference in pressure to say 40 or 50 thou off. Is there somewhere on the COL with that bullet that reduces pressures to closer to your initial table? I can seat in further, no probs as far from a compressed load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtrema Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 Hi VarmLR. Here's the updated data for your COL and 133 at 23g. I wouldn't personally wouldn't risk a load that hot, as at 22.1g you're still getting over 3000 fps. I often think COL is meaningless as i've always been a .010" from ogive to rifling too. Cartridge : .223 Rem. Bullet : .224, 60, Hornady V-MAX FB 22281 Useable Case Capaci: 24.963 grain H2O = 1.621 cm³ Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.244 inch = 57.00 mm Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm Powder : Vihtavuori N133 Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge, incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge. CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads ! Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time % % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms -20.0 87 18.40 2578 886 29539 4664 95.0 1.391 -18.0 90 18.86 2636 925 31507 4777 95.9 1.356 -16.0 92 19.32 2693 966 33604 4884 96.7 1.323 -14.0 94 19.78 2749 1007 35849 4984 97.4 1.290 -12.0 96 20.24 2806 1049 38245 5077 98.0 1.256 -10.0 98 20.70 2862 1091 40806 5161 98.6 1.222 -08.0 100 21.16 2917 1134 43545 5237 99.0 1.189 -06.0 103 21.62 2972 1177 46475 5305 99.4 1.157 -04.0 105 22.08 3026 1220 49589 5364 99.7 1.126 -02.0 107 22.54 3080 1264 52901 5413 99.9 1.097 +00.0 109 23.00 3133 1308 56444 5453 100.0 1.069 ! Near Maximum ! +02.0 111 23.46 3186 1352 60238 5484 100.0 1.041 ! Near Maximum ! +04.0 114 23.92 3238 1397 64305 5512 100.0 1.015 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE! +06.0 116 24.38 3289 1442 68668 5539 100.0 0.989 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE! +08.0 118 24.84 3340 1487 73355 5563 100.0 0.965 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE! +10.0 120 25.30 3391 1532 78397 5586 100.0 0.941 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE! Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value: +Ba 109 23.00 3234 1394 66951 5214 100.0 1.004 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE! Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value: -Ba 109 23.00 2981 1184 46217 5560 97.3 1.156 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VarmLR Posted March 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 I really appreciate your input, thank you. I'll take your advice and lower charge to 22.1 as suggested at 10 thou off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banus02 Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 good evening ,for information only .I use 24.5grs 52amax and 55gr vmax AND 24.gr 60gr amax velocity averaged all three bullet weights is 3023fps this is through a cz 527 varmint rifle I did buy 100 53gr vmax absolute rubbish in my rifle 1.7 inch group down to .4 up to 3inch never consistent 52grain a max .3 all day long .this is my rabbit /hare muntjac load and works very well good luck with your search Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtrema Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 Out of interest, i ran the same load but with the 53g V Max BT. This one is zipping along! Cartridge : .223 Rem. Bullet : .224, 53, Hornady V-MAX BT 22265 Useable Case Capaci: 25.437 grain H2O = 1.652 cm³ Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.244 inch = 57.00 mm Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm Powder : Vihtavuori N133 Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge, incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge. CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads ! Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time % % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms -20.0 86 18.40 2613 803 26201 4475 91.2 1.382 -18.0 88 18.86 2673 840 27900 4601 92.4 1.348 -16.0 90 19.32 2732 878 29709 4721 93.4 1.316 -14.0 92 19.78 2791 917 31643 4836 94.4 1.284 -12.0 94 20.24 2851 956 33702 4945 95.4 1.253 -10.0 96 20.70 2910 996 35902 5048 96.2 1.223 -08.0 99 21.16 2968 1037 38250 5144 97.0 1.192 -06.0 101 21.62 3026 1078 40760 5232 97.6 1.160 -04.0 103 22.08 3084 1119 43443 5313 98.2 1.129 -02.0 105 22.54 3142 1162 46316 5386 98.7 1.099 +00.0 107 23.00 3199 1204 49387 5450 99.2 1.070 +02.0 109 23.46 3256 1247 52688 5506 99.5 1.043 +04.0 111 23.92 3312 1290 56211 5553 99.7 1.016 ! Near Maximum ! +06.0 114 24.38 3367 1334 59965 5590 99.9 0.990 ! Near Maximum ! +08.0 116 24.84 3422 1378 63988 5618 100.0 0.965 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE! +10.0 118 25.30 3477 1422 68309 5637 100.0 0.941 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE! Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value: +Ba 107 23.00 3326 1301 58884 5251 100.0 1.001 ! Near Maximum ! Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value: -Ba 107 23.00 3021 1074 40495 5390 94.4 1.162 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VarmLR Posted March 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 good evening ,for information only .I use 24.5grs 52amax and 55gr vmax AND 24.gr 60gr amax velocity averaged all three bullet weights is 3023fps this is through a cz 527 varmint rifle I did buy 100 53gr vmax absolute rubbish in my rifle 1.7 inch group down to .4 up to 3inch never consistent 52grain a max .3 all day long .this is my rabbit /hare muntjac load and works very well good luck with your search Interesting feedback on the 53g, thank you. Perhaps the 50/55gr is a better bet, but my barrel harmonics will be different. I have the same rifle but re-barrelled with a LW Match 1/8 26" barrel. It's a tack driver with 25.2gr N140 under 69g TMKs but I have yet to try it with the 60g Vmax/N133. Interesting that you're using a 24gr load under 60gr A-max which is pretty close to the Vmax. How far off the lands is that by the way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VarmLR Posted March 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 good evening ,for information only .I use 24.5grs 52amax and 55gr vmax AND 24.gr 60gr amax velocity averaged all three bullet weights is 3023fps this is through a cz 527 varmint rifle I did buy 100 53gr vmax absolute rubbish in my rifle 1.7 inch group down to .4 up to 3inch never consistent 52grain a max .3 all day long .this is my rabbit /hare muntjac load and works very well good luck with your search Interesting feedback on the 53g, thank you. I have the same rifle but re-barrelled with a LW Match 1/8 26" barrel. It's a tack driver with 25.2gr N140 under 69g TMKs but I have yet to try it with the 60g Vmax/N133. Interesting that you're using a 24gr load under 60gr A-max which is pretty close to the Vmax. How far off the lands is that by the way? Out of interest, i ran the same load but with the 53g V Max BT. This one is zipping along! Cartridge : .223 Rem. Bullet : .224, 53, Hornady V-MAX BT 22265 Useable Case Capaci: 25.437 grain H2O = 1.652 cm³ Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.244 inch = 57.00 mm Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm Powder : Vihtavuori N133 Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge, incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge. CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads ! Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time % % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms -20.0 86 18.40 2613 803 26201 4475 91.2 1.382 -18.0 88 18.86 2673 840 27900 4601 92.4 1.348 -16.0 90 19.32 2732 878 29709 4721 93.4 1.316 -14.0 92 19.78 2791 917 31643 4836 94.4 1.284 -12.0 94 20.24 2851 956 33702 4945 95.4 1.253 -10.0 96 20.70 2910 996 35902 5048 96.2 1.223 -08.0 99 21.16 2968 1037 38250 5144 97.0 1.192 -06.0 101 21.62 3026 1078 40760 5232 97.6 1.160 -04.0 103 22.08 3084 1119 43443 5313 98.2 1.129 -02.0 105 22.54 3142 1162 46316 5386 98.7 1.099 +00.0 107 23.00 3199 1204 49387 5450 99.2 1.070 +02.0 109 23.46 3256 1247 52688 5506 99.5 1.043 +04.0 111 23.92 3312 1290 56211 5553 99.7 1.016 ! Near Maximum ! +06.0 114 24.38 3367 1334 59965 5590 99.9 0.990 ! Near Maximum ! +08.0 116 24.84 3422 1378 63988 5618 100.0 0.965 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE! +10.0 118 25.30 3477 1422 68309 5637 100.0 0.941 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE! Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value: +Ba 107 23.00 3326 1301 58884 5251 100.0 1.001 ! Near Maximum ! Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value: -Ba 107 23.00 3021 1074 40495 5390 94.4 1.162 Thanks for that. They certainly do zip along at that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VarmLR Posted April 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 Loaded up a batch today for ladder testing. Started at 22.1grains N133 and worked up in 0.2g intervals to 23.1 which was when case full was reached (well, picking the loaded round up and shaking in near the Mk1 ear lug to listen for free movement of propellant resulted in no sound). Loaded one more up at 23.2 as max load. Not going any hotter than that. Bullet COAL was 2.244". Will go out and shoot each in turn and look fro pressure signs and stop as soon as I reach any sign of over pressure. That then allows me to work back towards 22g in 0.2 intervals for step testing in groups. I'll simply pick the best grouping and that's my load I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtrema Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 Keep us informed. I am interested to know what the results will be. Do you have a chronograph? I'm curious to know how accurate QL is in calibres other than the ones I use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VarmLR Posted April 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 Keep us informed. I am interested to know what the results will be. Do you have a chronograph? I'm curious to know how accurate QL is in calibres other than the ones I use. I have a Pro Digital Chrono but wont use it until I have a "best group" load. Ladder tested today. No noticeable recoil until 23gr reached. Only loaded up to 23.2 based on QL, but I needn't have worried as absolutely zero pressure signs that I could detect even at 23.2. Shoulders on all primers nicely defined and no signs of pancaking primer faces or blown primers. No obvious ejector marks or other imprint marks on case heads and all rounds easy to eject. Recoil starts to intrude on sight picture from 23 grains. Will now work up in 1 grain intervals from 23.2 up to 23.8 Won't go beyond that as cases are full at 23.1, so looking for no more than slight compression. No point in taking unnecessary risks and I ought to find a node for groups I'm sure within those limits. One thing that I did notice is that actual charges were no-where near as full as QL predicted. Sierra 5th Ed and Viht Load data suggest a start load at around 22g and this wasn't quite up to the neck of the case, yet QL shows it as 105% capacity. I wasn't really getting any compression until 23.1 was reached. It makes me wonder whether the bulk density figure that QL uses is correct? Sierra shows a max load at 2.250 COAL of 24g. My loads were 2.244 COAL so I wouldn't go up as high as their max. Viht state 24.7 for a 2.244 COAL which seems very high. Extreme caution would seem to be order of the day. Just an annoyingly slow process! Also, my barrel is new so tolerances are quite tight. What works now may not work when the throat suffers some erosion with use, and rifling wears a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VarmLR Posted April 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 Photo showing case heads and primers. Note load marked on each case for comparison: My CZ527 firing pin tends to leave deep strike marks and the primers are CCI 400 which are pretty soft, so I don't think any of the slight cratering present are signs of over pressure since they are present on all loads from 22.1 upwards. I'm looking more for signs of primer flowing or flattening, and cant see any evidence of that on these: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueBoy69 Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 VarmLR, The way QuickLOAD works out how full the case is isn't obvious to start with. When it says it's 'full', this doesn't mean the charge goes all the way up to the neck, it means with the bullet seated, the charge takes up the free space. It works this out by using the field labelled 'Usable Case Capacity' (let's call this UCC) and the bulk density of the propellant. To find the figure it computes, the filling/load ratio (LR), it multiples the UCC (cm3) by the propellant bulk density (grams/cm3) and then divides the charge weight (in grams) by this figure (so cm3 times grams/cm3 which gives grams, then grams divided by grams, which gives the dimensionless ratio). The bulk density is not shown in the main propellant table, but can be found by clicking on the propellant charge sub-window and pressing control+A, or once its clicked, by then moving up to the menu toolbar, clicking on 'Windows...', then choosing 'Propellant Properties'. The bulk density figure being near the bottom right corner. The difference between how full (much free space is in) the case and what QuickLOAD says could be down to a number of reasons, a few that come to mind are: 1) QuickLOAD's figure for the bulk density could be incorrect; 2) You could have agitated/shaken the case which has consolidate the charge, increasing its bulk density; 3) The case volume could be incorrect; 4) The bullet data is incorrect. Hope this explains how the program computes the filling ratio? If not, let me know. Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VarmLR Posted April 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 Thanks Neil, very useful, and all understood. I wont get too concerned with anything other than pressure signs for the moment and report back when I detect any. That might prove useful to those loading 223 and using QL. I'll follow up the thread with chrono date once I've found a node that works for my rifle. Worth also noting at this point that I use a funnel with a drop tube for all my loads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtrema Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 Those primers look perfectly fine to me, by what i can make from the picture anyway. i use an electric toothbrush to settle the grains. It has to be a high frequency one or it won't do the job. I guess other vibrating appliances could be used at a pinch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VarmLR Posted April 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2016 Yes. Looks like it's safe to load on up a bit. I had thought about vibration to settle the grains but the idea behind the drop tube I use is to achieve even kernel distribution in a swirl-type fill to aid consistent and even burn rate. If loading for my accuracy load, I wouldn't be shaking or otherwise disturbing the fill, short of transport to the shoot as uneven powder distribution has to affect burn rate hence consistency. It will be interesting to see what SD and ES is achieved once the accuracy load is found. I use a 5.25 inch drop tube and thinking on what was said earlier about QL and bulk densities, it's dawned on me that the drop tube and a slow fill would result in a more compact fill than a funnel alone, hence less chance of compressing loads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VarmLR Posted April 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2016 Some more photos. Had a chance today to do some more ladder tests using the N133 loads. Results below: Closer look at hotter loads: Still no signs of over-pressure that I can see up to 24grains N133. Viht give 24.7 as max load but state it's for a Hornady 60g HP, not a tipped Vmax, so I'm guessing that their test pressures may be less as the bullet seating depth may be slightly less, hence building up these loads cautiously. Found one obvious accuracy load at 23.4 grains which accounted for a few corvid at a fair old distance (first shot clean kills) today so may just leave it at that for hunting use. Haven't chrono'd the loads yet as want to range test a few more variations yet. The eagle eyed will have spotted my deliberate mistake (ahem) of mixing a PPU case with my twice fired Remi cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VarmLR Posted April 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2016 Accuracy load seems to be 23.4 grains, but good results at 23.8 too. Sub moa at 200yds (about an inch at that distance). Murphy's law now that I have a load developed is that I can't get hold of any more 60gr V-Max as it appears there's a shortage (stockpiling in the USA)! Starting from scratch now and switching to Sierra bullets as at least supply is reliable. Note to self: Before wasting time/ammo/money on load development, check bullet supply first!!! For anyone else looking in on this thread, summary as follows: Rifle: Barrel length 26 inch 1 in 8 twist (excluding mod) Bullet: Hornady 60gr V-max Cases: Remington once fired (factory) Trimmed to length: 1.752 inches/neck sized COAL: 2.244 inches (10 thou off lands) Powder: Viht N133 Primers: CCI400 small rifle primers Charge: 23.4 grains (generating close to 3100fps but not enough strung for reliable stats, so lets just say "well over 3000fps") Test ranges: 100, 200, 300 and 400yds. This load is a particularly good match with Leica's Ballistic app on the CRF 1600B LRF using 200yd zero and Table 5 (US4) drop chart programme. Tried this out to 400yds but seems more accurate to 300yds. Hope has been useful for others. Some good results obtained with 23.8 grains too....similar groupings, great velocity, no pressure signs but I tend to load less hot for barrel life. Usual caveats apply...work your loads up to check for pressure signs and don't load straight to this load etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VarmLR Posted May 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2016 Been a while but thought I'd update the thread with load dev data. Appear now to have found the node that works well with these bullets. New brass used. Test groups shot in fair conditions off a bipod with a light breeze of 4 to 5 mph half value. Distance = 100 Yds Brass: Lapua Match Primers: CCI400 Powder: Viht N133 Load: 23.4g Acuracy node: loaded 15 thou off lands I did have one tighter group at 15 thou and the average seems to be around .35" I may be able to slightly tweak things to tighten further as the aim was to achieve .33 moa for vermin control to 300 yds, so not too far off now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VarmLR Posted May 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 Going back to basics, in better weather, I tried a few loads out today, shooting just a couple of shots at each step and recording the two best. The best step got a 5 shot group and this was the result: The load was 23.2 grains N133 behind 60g Vmax seated 10 thou off lands, to the load data's recommended 2.244 inch OAL. QL apparently shows this as quite hot but zero pressure signs (temp as 21 degrees C today and last time I tried this load it was 12 degrees). Looks like a pretty decent load for the Vmax. Next node was at 22.9g but groups started to open up below this, and above 23.4. This was the 2 shot ladder test at 22.9: I'll make up a small batch at this and see if I can get reliable/consistent sub .25 inch groups. If so, I'll use that in preference to the slightly hotter load to allow slightly more margin of safety and to take it easier on the barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtrema Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 Nice grouping VarmLR. I reckon you've found the "sweet spot" for your rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VarmLR Posted May 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 Thank you. I think that I may well have...just a little concerned that previous QL predictions showed this to be fairly hot, at least with it's standardised variables. 22.9's worth a shout when I load some more to try some 5 shot groups, but 100 thou off does indeed seem to be the sweet spot with this load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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