FL sizing problem

[JDBenelliM1]

Just got home from work so I'll go do some testing. No redding shell holder yet although of backing the die off works, a different she'll holder wouldnt make any difference.

 

I use imperial wax,very sparingly and dry lube with ceramic application for the neck

[baldie]

Outside chamfer the case neck. In your picture , there is a lip on the outside of the case.

 

The die wants to be bottoming out on the shell holder, just enough to not damage the die. If you don't push the case "up to the spuds " its not going to fully resize the web, nor bump the shoulders.

[gbal]

Shellholder etc -agreed,just something that could be easily done,if available.

 

It's always seemed most likely that the tightness arises from a not quite optimally adjusted die in the press. Full length resizing should 'set back' or 'bump'the shoulder;size the body inwards;neck size the case. The first is probably where the issues are.

I already mentioned tolerances in manufacture-one reason cartridge cases fire in one chamber are best not reloaded for another chamber-though resizing is possible,except in extremes of tolerances-ie chamber one is minumum,chamber two is maximum tolerances,and a headspace issues ensues.

You want to adjust your die so that near minimum resizing occurs to allow smooth feeding into the chamber (but secondarily,work the brass as little as you can ,for longeivity): so,simplest easy way:

 

Ram in highest position,screw in die until it contacts the shellholder,then Back the die out about 1/2 turn.

Place a lightly lubed case in the shellholder and run it up into the die as far as it will go.

Remove the case and chamber it in your rifle (removing the firing pin will give a better feel,but don't do this unless you are confisent/have the tools-it's not essential.

Feel the bolt closure,noting if there is any resistance-which is usual.

If there is rsistance,put this case back in the shellholder and run the case up into the die,adjusting the dies down about 1/8 turn.

Remove case and try it again in the chamber.

Repeat,if necessary,1/8 at a time....you want to feel the action close easily,without resizing the case more than you need to.

When you get easy bolt closure,carefully lock down the die,and resize a couple more cases just to check it's all smooth chambering.

 

That's your die set up optimally (or as near as you'll get without specialised tools like a Wilson cartridge case guage;or Stoney Point headspace guage) but it should work just fine,and specialist tools are seldom needed.

Setting up the die to perform minimal but sufficient resizing will increase brass life,and more importantly the safe easy functioning of your rifle. You should not need much force applied to the ram-if the brass has been very lightly lubed with Imperial/similar-sometimes a touch on the inside of the neck eases the neck sizing,probably not on every case,and wipe out after to minimise neck tension variations).

 

It's a "feel'" thing-the whole sequence should be smooth and relatively effortless.

 

gbal

[JDBenelliM1]

I decided to back the die off, loaded a round and fired it. I kept going until I got good lift and no sticky extraction. There was a clear gap between the die and case holder before I was happy with how it felt.

 

This is obviously not bumping the shoulder. As soon as i push the case right into the die so the case holder contacts the die the hard lift and stickiness returns.

 

I loaded 10 rounds with the die backed off and tested at 100y. Every one chambered easily and extracted perfectly and the groups werent bad.

 

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5 rounds - 0.215" center to center so i'm still happy with accuracy. The other 5 produced a 0.409" but I pulled one to the right.

 

I read baldies reply when I got back so chamfered the outside until the lip had gone, ran them fully into the die and loaded them up. these produced hard lift and sticky extract.

 

I got a few videos during initial case testing showing the hard lift and extract so I'll try to upload (internet is poor here so takes ages) to show the symptoms

[JDBenelliM1]

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[gbal]

JD, are you saying that the FL reloads are now chambering and extracting with no bolt lift issues?

 

And that this was after backing off the FL die,as per the Gravatt&Sinclair based instructions I posted?

Sounds so,if there was a gap....I wasn't sure in youre post 13 description just what (1/8 in " meant"-but it sounds as if it was not enough,and you needed several 1/8 adjustments,so removing contact between die and ram at top of ram position- my 'barely kissing' is my descriptor,not theirs,but seems to suggest more finesse than 'bottoming out' perhaps does.Anyhow,it,s adjust 1/8 by 1/8 away from full contact til it works!

 

So,is that indeed what you did,and has it sorted your sticky bolt lift?

 

You probably noticed that Redding sets can include a neck die-and a body die (this latter to bumpshoulders). They are excellent dies,as you know. Worth persevering,if need be.

gbal

[JDBenelliM1]

Evening Gbal,

 

Yes, I gradually backed off the die until no hard lift or stickiness were felt. This was when the die was no longer touching the shell holder by around 0.5mm (sorry, I prefer metric by eye) so I presume its not bumping the shoulder.

 

I will get a new press, redding shell holder and some new brass (Lapua) when funds allow and do the process you explain above, removing the firing pin etc to fine tune the setting.

 

But for now Im happy with the way the rifle is shooting with no chambering/extract issues so I'm just going to leave as is and get some more shooting done rather than worry about those b@3%@#d shoulders!

 

 

 

Thanks for all the advice.

 

JD

[gbal]

JD,good-that's a result - if/when you add to the Reddings,remember the option of the body die-as aon option for shoulders-It works the brass less,I believe,and presumably could be used when neck sizing...but in decades of reloading I've not had to use mine.But I also tend to have a lot of brass,so I'm not recycling the same 100 or so often.

You may well be fine for the foreseeable future....holes in target are the guide....though better dies etc don't ,alas,guarantee improvement. But the whole process should be hassle free. Good Shooting.

 

g

[stephentri]

Evening Gbal,

 

Yes, I gradually backed off the die until no hard lift or stickiness were felt. This was when the die was no longer touching the shell holder by around 0.5mm (sorry, I prefer metric by eye) so I presume its not bumping the shoulder.

 

I will get a new press, redding shell holder and some new brass (Lapua) when funds allow and do the process you explain above, removing the firing pin etc to fine tune the setting.

 

But for now Im happy with the way the rifle is shooting with no chambering/extract issues so I'm just going to leave as is and get some more shooting done rather than worry about those b@3%@#d shoulders!

 

 

 

Thanks for all the advice.

 

JD

in affect with the die set up like this you are just neck sizing the brass not full length re-sizing ,so the problem has not been fixed no one on here has got to the bottom of why when you full length re-size you are getting a hard to open bolt.

have you tried any of the things i suggested,h20 capacity difference, measuring with a head space gauge of a neck sized brass vs full length size. if there is a big difference in these measurements then it is probably same amount of powder put into a smaller sized case results in higher pressure.

 

let us know how you get on

stephen

[tisme]

It would be interesting to know if the die is bumping the shoulder back at all where its set and works fine. My though is that the case holder is thinner than a redding one so when you set it up touching the holder its bumping the shoulder back too far and expanding the bottom of the case. Not sure its possible but a thought.

[JDBenelliM1]

It would be interesting to know if the die is bumping the shoulder back at all where its set and works fine. My though is that the case holder is thinner than a redding one so when you set it up touching the holder its bumping the shoulder back too far and expanding the bottom of the case. Not sure its possible but a though.

This is what I'm thinking too. Got some helpful advice regards negative head space and the issues / flattened primers point to this being the problem. So the shell holder is the main suspect atm.

[gbal]

This is what I'm thinking too. Got some helpful advice regards negative head space and the issues / flattened primers point to this being the problem. So the shell holder is the main suspecat

 

It's been mentioned-suspect,not proven but try another if you can.

[baldie]

The die is pushing the shoulder back and OUT. Measure the unsized and the sized.

 

If the rifle has negative headspace it wouldn,t have passed proof.

[Brillo]

Bearing in mind what Baldie has just said, it might be worth while trying another die? I can't imagine a Redding body die being faulty, but if neck sized cases are OK it kind of implies that the camber is OK also.

Your video shows your rifle is a Sako TRG-22. Is it an after market barrel?

I only ask because I have never had an extraction problem with my TRG.