new long range 308 bullet to try

[Laurie]

Be very very careful with that load! Before other people see it as an aspiration, here are some cautionary tales.

 

First, the gunsmith who is also a top GB FTR competitor who built a very successful rifle around this bullet and used a similar load - hot as in short brass life, but within acceptable limits across all conditions encountered. He built a near copy for a customer, same make and spec barrel chambered with the same reamer, same freebore, same ammo components apart from lot numbers. It blew every primer on every cartridge loaded anywhere significantly above 45gn. Moral - because something apparently works for one person / rifle, it can be disastrous for another.

 

This also applies to rebarrelling - I can remember a day down on Diggle 'A' with The Gun Pimp and precision gunsmith Pete Walker with one of Pete's builds, a 7mm F-Open rifle. The customer had returned the rifle saying it 'wouldn't shoot' after a rebarrel. Despite the barrel being indentical to its predecessor chambered with the same reamer, the old barrel's load was way too hot for it. It performed as it should after a thorough decopper and with a much lower load, over two grains down.

 

Second, 2,740-2,750 fps impressive from a 24-inch barrel? You bet! If those readings are correct we're into proofing load territory plus another few thousand psi. Let's say the norm for national FTR competitors with 30-32 inch barrels and chambered specifically for this bullet is 2,775-2,825 fps using Lapua Palma brass and N150. It will do it too from large primer Lapua, but with a case life of three or four firings before the pockets open up to the point of junking the case.

 

Third, my apologies if I've missed it, but I see no mention of components other than bullet and powder. The case make and capacity can make a big difference to pressures. If the AI here is like the one that a friend and very competent one time F-Class competitor started out with in the early days of F, chambers are VERY slack compared to the 'minimum SAAMI' chambers that most custom built rifles use. His brass never performed well until it was fireformed and its capacity once done was impressive. The same applies to factory heavy-barrel Remington 700s it seems - PSS users in the US are quoting 210gn / 215gn Berger loads on AccurateShooter in Winchester brass that would put lives at risk with a tight chambered, shorter throated rifle using heavy European brass.

 

Do these loads use Lapua cases and if so, standard (LRP) or 'Palma' (SRP) brass. The latter will take a LOT more punishment than the former - for a while.

 

Finally, there is this worrying mention of 'slight' pressure signs on the brass. One day's slight pressure is potentially another day's blown primer or worse often for no obvious reason. If you're getting slight signs on Palma brass, you're already standing two inches from the cliff edge on soft turf that's crumbling. Any pressure sign on this brass is too much pressure sign. Because the Palma brass will apparently take proof load pressures happily, just beware that if and when it eventually gives way, it'll be a BIGGIE! No blanked or blown primer when it fails, likely to be a LOT worse.

[gunnery]

I agree with Laurie I have been following this thread with intrest after owning a 24" AI AEIII which shot exceedingly well but not with them loads be very careful indeed you only have one live and the guy next to you.

[Brillo]

I've been shooting centre fire since 1990 and reloading since the mid 90's and I still consider myself relatively new to the game.

 

The advice given to me when I started reloading is about as sound as it gets and still holds water today;

 

1. Never fire someone else's home loads in your own rifle unless absolutely sure of the components and its make up.

2. Never blindly follow some else's load data. Use it as a guide but start low and work up slowly.

3. If you want a quick way to heaven start as high as you can and work down.

 

The guy who gave me this advice finished with "death is permanent, not a rehearsal."

[Swarovski1]

Soon as I saw 2750fps I thought wow from a 24 incher.43.6gr of n150 is max load according to quickly load data for 26 incher with 185gr bergers.when I put 46grs of n150 in a federal case it was halfway up the neck.i use 44.8grs of n150 behind 168gr amaxs.thats vihts max load for 168gr scenars.you gotta admit josh is getting amazing accuracy from his load.a hot day may be a bad day though as Laurie said.i hope that's not the case.be careful josh.atb swaro

[joshmartin8]

i think there maybe some sense in the larger tun sammi spec chamber in the AI, when i load the powder in compared to SWARO's it only just reaches the bottom of the neck , i have been out again today and have shot another 20 of this load and still struggling to find pressure signs to be honest, no more ejector marks,no cratering on primers, no stiff bolt,

 

it is standard lapua brass I'm using with fed gold medal match primers, - one thing i haven't done in a while is full length size. i have only necked them, should i be aware of dangerous pressures after i full length them if it is that i have a sloppy chamber so to speak and my brass is coping fine at the min due to it being fire formed but once i full length there in theory might be less case capacity........thing to think about..

 

keep up the discussions please guys it great info and debate, going out again today (fri) so will report back once again afterwards,

[tackb]

I used to get 2750fps from a TRG 21 and the 175g matchking with 50gr of H380 in neck sized lapua brass (£19:99/100 back then!) it was a hot load and hard on cases but shot well.

 

I believe you can send loads to the proof house and get a pressure report ?

 

I tried to make a 308 into something it isn't when I first started , if you could get a 308 to perform like a 300win mag safely all the manufactures would be doing it surely?

 

just load safely and use the 308 within it's capabilities, picking bits of your action out of your face and your friends face won't be much fun!

[gbal]

Manufactures can't make a 308 into a 300 Win Mag,and are constrained in trying to do so because SAAMI exists (and CIP in Europe) to limit pressures to safe levels-they could not sell any ammo over SAAMI specs.They sell 300 win mag as a commercial alternative,of course. Whether this is a better mousetrap depends on just how huge your mice are. :-)

 

Alas,no such sensible arrangements exist for home loaders-there may be an option to send ammo to proof for test,but I doubt that it is done often. Apart from the "no man is an island' -not wishing injury on anyone,there is a further issue-if there is any unofficial officials lobby against civilian shooting,what better way to easily and much reduce it than by restricting shooting to the use of commercial ammo? It is known and tested safe,and all that might be needed is an 'unfortunate' home reloading incident resulting in injury-then the legislation is 'for the individual and public protection'-not at all an ostensible attack on shooting."Health and Safety " at work is a sort of model....you do not need to be a conspiracy theorist to acknowledge that this might present as a good career move for some ambitious civil servant etc. It would be very hard indeed to say that commercial ammo isn't adequate,given all that it has done in setting records,and field performance,using it. Legislation would be justified as purely a self enlightened safety matter,and not an attack on shooting-quite the contrary. It is not a trivial proposal.

 

More immediately and pragmatically,what actually is the case for velocity -in excess of SAAMI specs-in promoting accuracy-is there not a lot in the old bench rester's lack of concern with greater velocity- "if they are all going through the same hole,does it matter at what speed,and how would any more help?"

 

It would be nice to hear about super performances that are within accepted pressure limits,rather than the pervasive pursuit of fps,

especially where it is not at all critical to performance.And even where it might give an edge,it won't if everyone is pushing it.

But at 400y or so ?

Just some general thoughts on ggod practice,without reference to specific examples.

 

gbal

 

PS today's range shoot cancelled last night,so need more cappucino to restore best humours. :-)

Good and safe shooting to anyone out over the weekend.

[johnnyb0_1]

Question? From a newbie. Do the general public have access to the forum? Why discuss things that maybe outside SAMMI specs. Do you want to give anti's ammo? For fecks sake, THINK about what you are posting..... This could be dangerous but it's ok in my gun??? Sorry guys but this is not helpful to our sport. The forum is NOT a private one. We may not be among friends. Excess pressure ???? You need to consider your your posts. Don't help the anti gun peeps.

Not a rant but I think we need to be careful about what we say on line. This place ain't private. J.

[joshmartin8]

Question? From a newbie. Do the general public have access to the forum? Why discuss things that maybe outside SAMMI specs. Do you want to give anti's ammo? For fecks sake, THINK about what you are posting..... This could be dangerous but it's ok in my gun??? Sorry guys but this is not helpful to our sport. The forum is NOT a private one. We may not be among friends. Excess pressure ???? You need to consider your your posts. Don't help the anti gun peeps.

Not a rant but I think we need to be careful about what we say on line. This place ain't private. J.

 

Well if that wasn't a rant i don't know what is, yes it is open to the public..

 

we discuss things outside sammi spec because every load combo and rifle is different. sammi spec is a safe and proven but us as home loaders have the knowledge to work up loads safely and with caution by noticing signs and symptoms of high pressure,

 

If i have worked a load up to a point that i know is still safe in MY given rifle and then step the load back so i am not getting any pressure signs with amazing results i am going to share my finding with other like minded and interested individuals here,

 

All that are on this site should have read the rules of do's and dont's with home loading and taking individuals load data so someone with any common sense will not copy my load unless doing their own work up them selfs,

 

don't really get your point of your rant to be honest because i wasn't doing anything unsafe, if you feel i was please say so and I'm sure a lot of us will inform you if you are wrong or ill-informed,

 

regards josh

[dannywayoflife]

Totally pointless rant