Bullet 'Heads'

[brown dog]

Right, just finished wading through the Roedale thread.

 

Blimey.

 

Handbags at dawn.

 

 

Thought I'd initiate another pissing contest (and, no, I don't make bullets ) :

 

 

In the context of rifle ammunition; I flinch everytime I see the words 'head' or 'heads'.

 

They are the most stupidly redundant words in the British (and no one else's) shooter's lexicon

 

...and 'bullet head' is a full-on ignoramus's tautology.

 

Bullets. Ammunition. That's it.

 

 

Discuss

 

 

[Guest rogern]

Right, just finished wading through the Roedale thread.

 

Blimey.

 

Handbags at dawn.

Thought I'd initiate another pissing contest (and, no, I don't make bullets ) :

In the context of rifle ammunition; I flinch everytime I see the words 'head' or 'heads'.

 

They are the most stupidly redundant words in the British (and no one else's) shooter's lexicon

 

...and 'bullet head' is a full-on ignoramus's tautology.

 

Bullets. Ammunition. That's it.

Discuss

 

Thank god it isnt just me then, it makes me cringe when I see the word "HEAD" or "BULLET HEAD" used to describe a bullet, THERE IS NO SUCH WORD IN BALLISTIC TERMS, except where a body was hit!!!!

 

The name for a fully assembled live round is: CARTRIDGE. Collectively they are/can be termed as Cartridges or Ammunition, the component parts are:

CASE

POWDER

PRIMER

BULLET

Nowhere do you ever see the name "HEAD"

Those of you out there that use this word to describe parts of a cartridge please drop it from your ballistic terminology, it smacks of ignorance.

[tulkyuk]

Grow the ###### up

[Guest rogern]

Grow the ###### up

 

I have, thats why I dont use childish words to describe cartridge components

[Jay Foxing]

Hi folks,

 

As a case has a neck, shoulder and a body i don't see anything wrong with putting a "bullet head" on it. Projectiles come in many shapes and sizes, just because others may use different terminology to what you are accustomed to, don't get your knickers in a twist over it.

 

If we got hett up over small things like that, what you going to say about people calling Leupold scopes "loopy's", Landrovers "landys" and foxes "Charlie".

This terminology gets my back, but like me: Get over it, its just a name.

 

Jay.

[Guest rogern]

Hi folks,

 

As a case has a neck, shoulder and a body i don't see anything wrong with putting a "bullet head" on it. Projectiles come in many shapes and sizes, just because others may use different terminology to what you are accustomed to, don't get your knickers in a twist over it.

 

If we got hett up over small things like that what you going to do about people calling Leupold scopes "loopy's", Landrovers "landys" and foxes "Charlie".

This terminology gets my back like me: Get over it, its just a name.

 

Jay.

 

Not hett up Jay, its just one of those things that grates every time I hear it.

Its also nothing to do with "growing the ###### up"

[Jay Foxing]

Rogern,

 

There is such a word as HEAD in ballistics, Its the part on your cartridge case that most of you refer to as the BASE. But like i say, its just a name. Most people will know what your on about when you say base.

 

Jay.

[Guest rogern]

Rogern,

 

There is such a word as HEAD in ballistics, Its the part on your cartridge case that most of you refer to as the BASE. But like i say, its just a name. Most people will know what your on about when you say base.

 

Jay.

 

Well spotted

There is a reference to 'head' in ballistic terms, but it has the word 'space' used with it and it refers to the dimensions between the datum line on the shoulder and the boltface, see, now we've got: body, shoulder, neck, face & headspace.

Still nothing to indicate that a bullet is a head though

We could call it the pointy bit that comes out of the barrel

[Streeker59]

To the puritanical or benchresters, the term "head" is a red rag to a bull. Why get hung up over it? Does it really matter what we call the components that go to make a round of ammo? Oops... ammunition?? See.. you got me at it now....

Hell guys, does it matter if we give things pet names out of fun or ignorance? So long as we all understand what's being said, what the hell?

If we go down a route of picking folk up on pronunciation then we better start on spelling too... Then typing errors... What next?? Point of view???

Just lay back and enjoy the fact that we have the freedom to discuss such issues as how much of this or that powder or what bullet to use for deer..

Life's too short to worry about such things as what a bullet should or should not be called...

Grant..

[Guest rogern]

You're right streeker, lifes too short

[tulkyuk]

You're right streeker, lifes too short

Which is why i said what i did at the start - sorry if i offended - i am just sick of all the bitching and back biting that goes on here

after all this is an excellent site and is sometimes ruined by a small few

[foxing2night]

I think that there are a few on here that should get out and do a bit more shooting and less bitching???

 

Could i ask the chap that started the post off, What he asks for when he go,s into a gun shop to buy his reloading components ???? (this should be interesting)

 

Or was this just another atempt to start a big argument????

 

I think that this is a time when the people in the shooting community should stick together???

But from what i see you lot have got no chance,,,

 

Another down side to these futile arguments, is that new members, or new shooters that come onto this site will be scared to ask questions just incase they get the crap ripped out of them????

 

Now if people want to debate all the pro,s and con,s??? why dont you go and run for local election???

 

And get your nose from up your arse,,

 

We have got a good site, that a lot of people have worked hard to achieve,,,,

 

Don,t ruin it for gods sake?????

 

Not a happy,,, F2n

[Guest rogern]

I think that there are a few on here that should get out and do a bit more shooting and less bitching???

 

Could i ask the chap that started the post off, What he asks for when he go,s into a gun shop to buy his reloading components ???? (this should be interesting)

 

Or was this just another atempt to start a big argument????

 

I think that this is a time when the people in the shooting community should stick together???

But from what i see you lot have got no chance,,,

 

Another down side to these futile arguments, is that new members, or new shooters that come onto this site will be scared to ask questions just incase they get the crap ripped out of them????

 

Now if people want to debate all the pro,s and con,s??? why dont you go and run for local election???

 

And get your nose from up your arse,,

 

We have got a good site, that a lot of people have worked hard to achieve,,,,

 

Don,t ruin it for gods sake?????

 

Not a happy,,, F2n

 

We have had a healthy discussion on a topic, we managed it without insulting each other, your post is likely to start the bitching purely because of your attitude.

 

The quality of members on this site rules out any of them running for election, to be a counciller you would need to be an arsewipe and stranger to the truth, after all its just a few steps away from being an MP, and we know how honest they are

 

As far as new members are concerned most introduce themselves as 'newbies' or suchlike and I, nor anyone else on this site I presume, would belittle someone just starting out or anyone else.

 

When I 'go to the gunshop for reloading components' I ask for................... wait for it............ a box of xxx grain .308 sst bullets, or a box of 32 grain vmax etc, funny but I never get given a box of cartridges or asked if I mean "bullet heads"

 

I'm not the 'chap' that started this off

[Guest rogern]

Which is why i said what i did at the start - sorry if i offended - i am just sick of all the bitching and back biting that goes on here

after all this is an excellent site and is sometimes ruined by a small few

 

Tulkyuk

 

No offence taken, it is a good site

 

Regards

[davo]

Can't see the importance of using the correct terminology all the time, yes if you are speaking to somebody that knows what you're saying but to the ordinary person or for example my wife it's double dutch, her definitions of a complete 'round', pointy bit (bullet), long shiny bit (case) flat bit at the bottom with the round thing in it ( I'll let you use you're imagination for this one!!)

 

I've asked in RFD shops before for component parts for reloading using what I regarded as standard terminology only to be looked at blankly until you hit the right word that the other guy uses then they know what you're on about .

Horses for courses, call it what you want, no need to lose sleep over an insignificance.

[Ronin]

I think Brown Dog has started an excellent discussion here, it wrankles me every time someone refers to "heads" when it should be bullet.

 

I am certain that BD has started the thread as nothing more than a discussion point, not to start a in house bun fight.

 

Its a valid thread.

 

A live round is a "round" or cartridge nothing more or less.

 

However a bullet could, depending on type also be referred to sabot or solid perhaps.

 

Sabot being the "carrier system" to enable a smaller than bore size bullet to be fired in a rifle and used in certain artillery weapons.

 

Solid - monolithic bullet, made from copper, bronze or alloy of both generally used in large game and sometimes in long range large calibre guns where the bullets are lathe turned.

 

 

 

Putting on my anorack now

[brown dog]

What an outstanding range of responses !

 

 

I don't really see the observation that 'heads' are actually 'bullets' being the initiator of the demise of shooting sports -or this site :D

 

...very amused by the responses from individuals who took affront; my intent was to initiate a humorous debate...not the rather Fundamentalist "he's insulting the last bastion of shooting sports" replies that some posted . Untwist your knickers fellows.

 

Rogern and Andy, thank you for 'getting'. Andy's point:

I am certain that BD has started the thread as nothing more than a discussion point, not to start a in house bun fight.

is spot on.

 

I put my hand up; I'm a ballistics nerd. I revel in ballistic nerditry. ...And it's true, I do flinch everytime someone says 'heads'. No doubt that's the result of an adult life spent in both the theory and application of military ballistics (and I can't help but be struck that the route that chooses to take affront and 'defend' the term is the one that chooses mediocrity!). Those of you who've fired 6km (that's Six Kilometre) wind corrections will know where I'm coming from .

 

What do I ask for in a gun shop? I soon learnt not to ask for 'bullets'.....It'd invariably initiate a painful conversation with shopkeepers that starts with a reply such as 'Do you mean heads or loaded cartridges?'

 

...I now ask for these components by type eg 308 155gr Scenars, 308 165gr NBTs etc ...because I will not be drawn to use the dunce word :)

 

...typed with a smile on my face and no offence intended

[foxing2night]

No offence taken and no offence ment,,,,,

 

But i must admit, That i for one have asked for bullet heads when going into a shop!!!!!!

 

As have many people that i know???

 

Cannot umderstand why this should make people gringe????

 

Rgrds F2n

[Jay Foxing]

Hi brown dog,

 

For someone who has spent an adult life spent in both the theory and application of military ballistics, you of all people should know that a cartridge head is the part of the case where you insert the primer. Do you flinch every time someone refers to this as the base?

 

Jay.

[Guest wireviz]

I THINK YOUR ALL OFF YOUR ####### HEADS PS DOSE HEAD SPACE REALLY MEAN BULLET SPACE OR AM I TALKING SHITE

 

Heres a head that needs an asprin

[brown dog]

you of all people should know that a cartridge head is the part of the case where you insert the primer.

 

 

Not sure what point you're making. I haven't mentioned cartridge cases.

 

 

 

Yes, you're quite right, a case has a head (eg -headstamp, 'case head expansion' etc)

 

But to answer your question:

 

I don't believe I've ever heard someone mention a basestamp or measure case base expansion :)

 

 

 

 

I think you'll find it's the pointy spinny heavy bit that leaves the barrel that has a base .

[Jay Foxing]

Hi brown dog,

 

No point, just a question. I have heard no end of rifle shooters & reloaders refer to the case head as the base, i'm sure you have heard this also (have been known to use it myself as well as bullet head, sorry). I know it was not mentioned by your good self, just wondered if it gave you the same flinch as the word head.

Any other incorrect terminologie get you going, just out of interest?

 

All the best,

Jay.

[Ronin]

The term Gunsmith, seems to make several people flinch

[Wsm]

"Back street metal fettler" is another good one that get folks going I believe

[brown dog]

The term Gunsmith, seems to make several people flinch