tulkyuk Posted May 20, 2008 Report Share Posted May 20, 2008 ACPO - has stated that lager calibre rifles can now be used for small vermin control http://www.basc.org.uk/content/change_to_firearms_certif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kip270 Posted May 20, 2008 Report Share Posted May 20, 2008 What a great pity that they included this sentance... "it must be remembered that it is still for individual chief constables to make their own decisions" So it's a bit pointless really then . I had a long haul with Gwent Police about my .270 but am now cleared for Fox/Deer, so i'll leave mine as it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6mmBR Posted May 20, 2008 Report Share Posted May 20, 2008 Sounds great if the apply it, fingers crossed Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermincinerator Posted May 20, 2008 Report Share Posted May 20, 2008 My FAC is going in tomorrow to have a rifle i sold ammended, so i am going to ask for my 25-06 AI to be cleared for fox and vermin Ian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orka Akinse Posted May 20, 2008 Report Share Posted May 20, 2008 We were never going to get a blanket U turn Tikka no matter how "right" it was to do so. It has given them the right to review properly, so lets hope that they do it, I will be asking for it next year when I renew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
between the eyes Posted May 20, 2008 Report Share Posted May 20, 2008 At least it's a move in the right direction. I remember asking for vermin on for my .243, I was told that it was inhumane, I laughed and said some thing like "the rabbits won't give a that which promotes growth and vigour, dead is dead" it did'nt go down very well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6mmBR Posted May 21, 2008 Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 I spoke to South Wales Police yesterday they seem pretty happy with it, she is phoning back today to let me know wether I need to fill in a variation for or will a plain letter do. Fingers crossed. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TC Posted May 21, 2008 Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 My FAC is going in tomorrow to have a rifle i sold ammended, so i am going to ask for my 25-06 AI to be cleared for fox and vermin Ian. Let us know how you get on Ian, that will set a nice precedent for Northants !! TC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
menial 1 Posted May 22, 2008 Report Share Posted May 22, 2008 ACPO - has stated that lager calibre rifles can now be used for small vermin control http://www.basc.org.uk/content/change_to_firearms_certif The danger in having all large calibre rifles cleared for vermin as well as fox/deer is that eventually the authorities could turn round and say that you may only have one calibre for sporting use so make your choice and part with the rest. It might not seem such a good idea when it's turned against you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6mmBR Posted May 22, 2008 Report Share Posted May 22, 2008 I posted my ticket off today to be amended, so will let you know. Shame is there's a bank holiday next week which will slow things up a bit. Cheers Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldon Posted May 22, 2008 Report Share Posted May 22, 2008 Good point and very wise words. Your collection value would then plumet as all these rifles became available with limited buyers. I 'll keep to a rabbit rifle, fox rifle etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sundance Kid Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 The danger in having all large calibre rifles cleared for vermin as well as fox/deer is that eventually the authorities could turn round and say that you may only have one calibre for sporting use so make your choice and part with the rest.It might not seem such a good idea when it's turned against you. The Law as it stands is quite Clear. The Cheif constable in whos area you reside. (MUST grant an application for a firearm or variation for a firearm to any applicant except those persons who he may consider unsuitable either through mental disorder or persons convicted of any offence not excused be the offenders reabilitation act) Further their is no restriction on the amount of firearms that can be purchased as long as you can show to the Cheif officer of police a justifiable need for such. The onus is on the individual to show just cause wether it be one firearm or 300 obviously having considerable quantities of firearms he would also need to establish the safe keeping and security of such, so in essence there is no limitations , only a change in the firearms act can alter the wording of the law. Force policy sometimes is not the law which does lead to certain problems in applications but if an individual can qoute the law verbatem , then the Chief Officer of Police has no option but to accept whats the written word. I will later when i have time include the firearms act home office guidelines here for those who may wish to familiarise themselves with the act. Regards Sundance http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1997/ukpga_19970005_en_1 http://www.opsi.gov.uk/Acts/acts1997/ukpga_19970064_en_1 http://police.homeoffice.gov.uk/publicatio...pdf?view=Binary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 West Yorks haven't made a decision on what they're going to do yet. I'll ring them on Monday and speak to the person that attended the ACPO meeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandersj89 Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 West Yorks haven't made a decision on what they're going to do yet. I'll ring them on Monday and speak to the person that attended the ACPO meeting. Sussex are denying they have knowledge of the ACPO statement at the moment, got a letter this morning after my written enquiry. They say I cant have vermin on my 243. Extracts of the letter: have checked in all recent ACPO guidelines and can find nothing which accords with the paragraph outlined in your letter. It certainly was not included in the minutes of the last meeting of the ACPO Firearms and Explosive Licensing Working Group on 14th Feb 2008. I do however accept that it may be a proposal which BASC would wish to promote to Licensing managers. The prime concern of the chief officer of police is to have regard for public safety and the peace and it is for this reason that appropriate levels of experience and expertise are required before conditions of possession and use are relaxed. Speaking to BASC for further advice.... There letter also makes it clear they think I have both a .22LR and .17HMR. I did have a slot for the .22LR but chopped it in for the 243 in a 1 for 1 variation......glad to see they have accurate records!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sundance Kid Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 Sussex are denying they have knowledge of the ACPO statement at the moment, got a letter this morning after my written enquiry. They say I cant have vermin on my 243. Extracts of the letter: Speaking to BASC for further advice.... There letter also makes it clear they think I have both a .22LR and .17HMR. I did have a slot for the .22LR but chopped it in for the 243 in a 1 for 1 variation......glad to see they have accurate records!!! Then I suggest you challenge their reason and to refuse you your certificate in which case you tell them if they do you will take the Cheif Constable to Court. you have shown just reason and if you have written permision and if the ground you shoot over is considered safe to use a high velocity calibre and all other criteria applies then under the present firearms act. The Cheif Constable must grant note the emphasis on MUST the act is quite clear . The Chief Constable must apply the law as its written down not as he thinks is force policy. http://police.homeoffice.gov.uk/publicatio...pdf?view=Binary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 Then I suggest you challenge their reason and to refuse you your certificate in which case you tell them if they do you will take the Cheif Constable to Court. you have shown just reason and if you have written permision and if the ground you shoot over is considered safe to use a high velocity calibre and all other criteria applies then under the present firearms act.The Cheif Constable must grant note the empasis on MUST the act is quite clear . The Chief Constable must apply the law as its written down not as he thinks is force policy. http://police.homeoffice.gov.uk/publicatio...pdf?view=Binary Not necessarily so. A person can challenge all they want but in the end its up to the police. Remember, you may have just reason and written permission but what you don't have is THE RIGHT to own firearms. Also if you want to appeal, the only right of appeal is at issue or renewal. You can't appeal in between. Where shotguns are concerned they must give good reason for you not to have them; where firearms are concerned YOU must have the good reason but it's not a given that you'll get anything. If they don't want you to have something they'll find a way to do it. Until all forces apply the legislation and guidance consistently it'll continue to be a postcode lottery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sundance Kid Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 Not necessarily so. A person can challenge all they want but in the end its up to the police. Remember, you may have just reason and written permission but what you don't have is THE RIGHT to own firearms. Also if you want to appeal, the only right of appeal is at issue or renewal. You can't appeal in between. Where shotguns are concerned they must give good reason for you not to have them; where firearms are concerned YOU must have the good reason but it's not a given that you'll get anything. If they don't want you to have something they'll find a way to do it. Until all forces apply the legislation and guidance consistently it'll continue to be a postcode lottery. The only part I agree with that statement is at grant renewal or variation and its not up to the police at all its up to the Courts of this land and what an High Court Judge says they are the people who administer the laws not the Police. They are agents for the Home Office from where they get the advice on administration, any High Court Judge will interpret the laws as he or she sees fit and do so were they see injustice being levied against individuals which create precedents that are enforcable by the courts elsewere. Hope this helps Sundance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6mmBR Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 South Wales police phoned this afternoon. All my deer stalking centrefires have now been approved for fox and vermin control my certificate will be returned to me tomorrow. Cheers Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 The only part I agree with that statement is at grant renewal or variation and its not up to the police at all its up to the Courts of this land and what an High Court Judge says they are the people who administer the laws not the Police. They are agents for the Home Office from where they get the advice on administration, any High Court Judge will interpret the laws as he or she sees fit and do so were they see injustice being levied against individuals which create precedents that are enforcable by the courts elsewere. Hope this helps Sundance That's pretty much what I was trying to say but you've said it better. Still not sure about the variation bit though. I was of the understanding that the right to take it to court was only available at grant or renewal, variations being locally decided. Mind yoy they've pratted about with interpreting the Act that often it may easily have passed me by ....................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moses Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 I phoned south area Met police about this today and was told; "They will sticking to home office guidelines, when/if this becomes legislation they will reveiw it." I was hoping to get fox cleared for my .270 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redfox Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Menial has it dead right, this is just a move to reduce the number of weapons held and restrict ownership, common sense has nothing to do with it. I wont be sending my fac off for that sort of change and why would you really want it? you can have targets of opportunity added now, which is actually less restrictive. Its like they say think carefully and be sure what you are really wishing for. Redfox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kip270 Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 I phoned south area Met police about this today and was told; "They will sticking to home office guidelines, when/if this becomes legislation they will reveiw it." I was hoping to get fox cleared for my .270 I got Fox cleared for my .270, write a letter stating the facts and why you need it cleared for Fox, if you want to know more pm me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 I was having a problem with my .243 until I argued that if I went stalking during the day and wanted to lamp foxes once it got dark I would have to take two rifles and leave one or the other unattended in my vehicle. I suggested that to allow fox on the .243 it would maximise the use of the rifle, minimise the number of firearms I needed to take out at any one time and as a result aid security of weapons in the field. I still needed .223 for long range vermin and fox. It did the trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermincinerator Posted June 25, 2008 Report Share Posted June 25, 2008 I put my FAC in for variation and the above condition change on 5th June and it came back today with the .25" calibre rifle cleared for Deer, fox, vermin, pest control and ground game! RESULT Ian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest northernchris Posted June 25, 2008 Report Share Posted June 25, 2008 Dont you just love Northants mate,they change their mind like the wind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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