Winchester Subsonic .22LR

[Streeker59]

Having been a dedicated user of first Eley Subs then Eley Extra Plus subs for a number of years, i found myself in an awkward position when going to my supplier for further stock. He no longer stocked them due to cost and lack of demand. Yes he could get them in but i needed them for a lamping session last night.

So i had to decide between CCI copper coated subs ( tried em before and found them to be wildly inaccurate and occasionally supersonic) or Winchester subs.

Close inspection of the Winchester showed them to be a 40 grn bullet with a hole up front i could park my car in.. yes I'm a bit of a tree hugger nowadays and drive a roller skate but damn, is it good on fuel...

Well the offer was £20 for 500 rounds so with some doubt as to the accuracy of this diminutive round with the wind tunnel built in, i headed off to one of my permissions that had been getting a bunny pasting recently. When i arrived about 7 pm, the critters were dancing with cap and cane alongside the Rape.. I snuck in along a storm ditch to within 45 yds and set down the Quad on the bipod. The first of my pre-loaded mags holding the new subs went into the mag well and the bolt closed readying it's lethal pill...( Damn i should be writing spy thrillers ).......

My first target was a big buck just over 45 yds away. Lining up the cross hair center dot just behind his right eye, i squeezed off the round.....

He flipped like a Dolphin after a red snapper and as he said goodbye to the world i could see an outstretched rear foot waving in the breeze before finally coming to rest. The familiar thwack that one is used to hearing when a bullet strikes its fleshy target was louder than i'm used to or so i thought.

90 mins later and 12 bunnies on the deck i thought it time to pick up my spoils.. It was a good job i only went for head shots, the damage that these subs do to a bunny is far more dramatic than the Eleys i've been using for years. The accuracy at bunnying ranges is comparable to Eley even out to 70 yds despite the huge hole in front.

So, if you haven't tried em yet, i can wholeheartedly recommend Winchester subs...

[Bazooka Joe]

the damage that these subs do to a bunny is far more dramatic than the Eleys

 

I've used these since they first made the 40gn subsonic, your right in the above quote, if fact I don't think there's another Sub that has the same impact as the Win 40gn's.

 

Never a fan of the Eley's, I think you just pay for the name. £20 for 500 Win, you've defo got a good price there, £31+ up ours now for 500, I'd stock up if you get the chance.

 

BJ.

[ejg223]

Win Subs used to be my favourite, by far.

Never got used to hold over with the scope on the 22lr so went back

to open sights with slide adjuster. Best was rabbit at 130yds.

Also used two mags one with subs and the other with win laser.

edi

[Guest northernchris]

In my current .22rf (CZ 452) i found RWS subs fantastic on bunnies,the only down side is that they are very dirty.

[Andrew]

I've never seen copper coated CCI subsonics. They must be an export item. The CCI subs we get here are lubed lead with a huge, gaping hole up front. I have never seen Winchester Subs on any store shelves though I have seen them in mail-order houses from time to time.

 

Though I have no noise restriction requirements, I keep one of my .22's set up for subs all the time and usually use Aguila HP's. They shoot like Eley in my rifles but at far less cost. I usually shoot winter rabbits with subs as they will sun themselves on cold days and it's fairly easy to move amongst them if you don't make too much clatter. In the summer it doesn't matter. You can walk to within 15 feet of the critters and they will just sit! I usually won't shoot one unless the prairiedogs are down and the range makes it a challenge; but then I'm usually carrying a Hornet. ~Andrew

[Streeker59]

These are the CCI copper subs i spoke of Andrew.. Never been a fan of them and i'm slowly getting through my stock that i bought some 10 years ago. Only a couple of hundred to go..lol.. I only use them when i'm using a hide and am sure of head shots out to 25 yards. Beyond that i found them to be wildly inaccurate and sometimes supersonic.

I still have a part box of Aguila super SE extra subs and yes they're very good and cheap or so they were. Can't get em my way now..

Grant..

[Alycidon]

I found CCI and RWS did not suit any of my rifles. My old bolt action Annie loved Winnies and Magtech which had a even bigger hollow point. These days my rimmy's are semi's and the quite large amounts of grease on Winnies and Magtech soon gummed up the actions. I usually use Eley, Lapua are also fine but very expensive.

 

A

[Chris-NZ]

I've used these since they first made the 40gn subsonic, your right in the above quote, if fact I don't think there's another Sub that has the same impact as the Win 40gn's.

 

BJ.

 

Have several silenced .22s I use round our lifestyle block (so as not to annoy the neighbours) and these are fed Win Subs exclusively.

 

The killing power is quite impressive and has opened the eyes of various shooting mates who've seen them in action. Have accounted for over 200 magpies, many rabbits and (Aussie brushtail) possums, the latter a hard animal to kill. There must be something to the large hollow nose as it sure does the biz. Accuracy is as good as any sporting ammo I've tried.

 

Chris, NZ

[Guest Sundance Kid]

I found CCI and RWS did not suit any of my rifles. My old bolt action Annie loved Winnies and Magtech which had a even bigger hollow point. These days my rimmy's are semi's and the quite large amounts of grease on Winnies and Magtech soon gummed up the actions. I usually use Eley, Lapua are also fine but very expensive.

 

A

 

 

I use Winchester hollowpoints all the time and in my view are the best sub-sonics on the market but i still need a silencer to take away some of the crack on a old model 2 Brno bolt action i have to admit to them being a bit greasey but they do the job required of them satisfactory

[Alycidon]

A bolt actions can handle the grease OK but custom semi's with tight match chambers gum up after about 30 rounds. Hence Eley/Lapua for me. I dont go that far with mine and find stopping power is fine, maybe not quite as god as Magtech which I rated as better than Winnies in this area.

 

A.

[baldie]

CCI have just replaced the copper coated sub with a lead model, and its unbelievably good, accuracy wise.Just as good as anything else in fact.I was pleasantly surprised, as we,ve always fought shy of the old ones, because they were crap, to be honest. CCI have pulled there socks up of late...the standard [roundnose bullet] is also an excellent round, and a damn sight cheaper than most other stuff too.

I tend to use better grade, target ammo for rabbits these days, as its more accurate, and its subsonic, and despite no hollowpoint...dead is still...dead. Try SK, and SK match, its actually Lapua, but assembled in germany, and its cheaper.

[Chris-NZ]

 

I tend to use better grade, target ammo for rabbits these days, as its more accurate, and its subsonic, and despite no hollowpoint...dead is still...dead. Try SK, and SK match, its actually Lapua, but assembled in germany, and its cheaper...

 

 

 

 

Yep, the SK Match ammo shoots great out of my sporters as well but my only issue is with ricochets- the solids can whine off a bit from ridges..

 

Forgot to mention the long range killing power of Win subs - have a photo of a rabbit shot at (Leica BRF measured) 187yds off our pool balcony. Had actually shot a blackbird at 132yds just moments before- zero wind and a good rest. The rabbit made the mistake of running out and stopping on the track a bit further on. Held about another foot higher and let one go, to be greeted by the rabbit spinning round and collapsing. Had copped it fair through the spine half way back. Unluckiest rabbit in the world I say

 

Chris, NZ

[Alycidon]

I tried Lapua pistol match against rabbits, solid point. My AMT/Theoben was designed for target use with that bullet in mind,

 

Head shots were fine as you would expect but chest shots were far from satisfactory. Several rabbits having been hit center chest ran 5-10 yards before rolling over, HP would just have stopped them on the spot.

 

A

[njc110381]

I use CCI subs in my custom 10/22 (made by one of baldies team). The ones I use come in plastic slide top boxes of 100 and are lead not copper plated. They have very little lube on them and I can fire over 100 rounds before the gun starts to need a clean (and then I have few jams still).

 

Some seem to be saying that eley are clean? Not around here they're not! Filthy things, they clog up my gun to jamming point within 30 rounds and I refuse to use them!

 

Winchesters were fairly clean, but not as good as CCI. Anyone who hasn't tried them recently should have another go, they're the cleanest bullet I know

[baldie]

They are the new ones buddy, and a lot better than the old. The jams arent caused by the ammo, as such, they are caused by using a moderator. A 10/22 will always start to jam sooner with a mod fitted, as its a blow back action, and more of the crap, comes back, into the reciever, when the gun is moderated.

[Alycidon]

I have not heard that about moddy causing stoppages but do take the point. However grease on the case building up in a tight chamber I still think to be the major cause of blockages in a semi. The Eley 40 grainer I have found to be reasonable, 200 rounds maybe before a full strip. My Shilen barrelled 10/22 would go further as it has a slightly larger chamber. Oddly it does not like the Eley 40 grainers and I keep a dwindling supply of the old Eley 36 grainers for it. Perhaps time to try some of these CCI's.

 

A

[davo]

I use win Subs all the time in my CZ452, and in my opinion they are good hard hitting accurate rounds for a .22LR, I used some Remington's before and had about 3 poppers in the batch of 500, I've only had 1 in over 1500 of the Winchesters.

I've shot over 150 rounds over the last 4 nights, regularly taking rabbits out to 100yds with no worries, stone dead. I like em!

[v-max]

I have used winchester subs for 14yrs now but have tryed eley's/remmy/cci all shot well but i like the winchester subs they have been good for me.

[Chris-NZ]

... The jams arent caused by the ammo, as such, they are caused by using a moderator. A 10/22 will always start to jam sooner with a mod fitted, as its a blow back action, and more of the crap, comes back, into the reciever, when the gun is moderated.

 

Yep, very true from my experience Baldie.

 

Besides a std SS 10/22, I've got one that was given to me by my father-in-law. I had it converted to a fully silenced model - the barrel has multiple perforations as per a brake and the whole barrel is sleeved. In reality, not any better than my bolt gun with the old Parker Hale moderator, but that's because of the noise that sneaks out of the action.

 

Anyway, it needs HV ammo to cycle the action because of the inefficency of the perf'd barrel. I opened a brick of Win HV Power Point (in a new style packaging) the other day and immediately started to get major cycling probs. I noticed the ones that weren't firing had virtually no firing pin impact and a closer look revealed the slide not going fully into battery was the cause. Thought it was just crud but a -thorough- strip down and clean including the chamber didn't fix it. The rounds were easily dropping into the chamber so not chamber crud. The rifle would happily cycle on 4 other brands of HV ammo.

 

Got my gunsmith to have a look and his theory was the rim diam of the new ammo must be bigger. I mic'd a sample of 20 and four were either 7.01 or 7.02mm. While this is barely outside specs, it seems that is the cause. Swapped the remaining 9/10 of the brick for some older style packets my friendly retailer had just got from an old guy selling up. Sweet again. Might have to get my gunsmith to run a hard point cutter in to slightly open up the slide recess. The other 10/22 is fine with the ammo. Interesting experience.

 

Chris

[Chris-NZ]

These are the CCI copper subs i spoke of Andrew.. .. i found them to be wildly inaccurate and sometimes supersonic.

..

Grant..

 

 

Had the same experience with some of them going supersonic. I only tried one pkt on the recommendation of a dealer and the accuracy was nothing to write home about either.

Can't remember which rifle but I think it was the CZ 452 I recently sold. That thing must have had a tight barrel as it's vels were up on all of my other rimfires I tried. Fired one round of CCI QuikShok and it gave 1601fps. Very sharp report. The CCI Velocitors were way down on claimed vels.

 

Chris

[bobsdog]

I have found that CCI s/s are the most accurate in both my 10/22 and Beretta. Followed by Remington s/s. Eley, in my opinion have yet to make an accurate hollow point round.

The obvious point with accuracy of course being that all 22's will have a preference for one or two types of ammunition, it's a matter of trying them all until you find the one that suits your gun.

I have also noticed no difference in the terminal performance of solid and HP bullets, and recovered bullets from rabbits both show an equal amount of damage.

It will be interesting to see how the new German SK ammo stacks up when it starts to come into the country later this year.

[Andrew]

I find it funny that I have seen neither Winchester nor CCI Sub Sonic rounds on any store shelves here in the US. I shoot Aguila Sub Sonics and have found them comparable to Eley in accuracy and consistency. Moreover, they are available here in solid point which I like quite a bit.~Andrew

[Chris-NZ]

I find it funny that I have seen neither Winchester nor CCI Sub Sonic rounds on any store shelves here in the US. ..

 

Here's pic of the Aussie-made Win HV and Sub ammo.

The HV version is extremely popular with pro pest controllers.

The deep hollowpoint in both rounds really does the biz on knockdown.

 

Chris-NZ

 

 

 

[gareth]

Winchester subsonics were my choice in my old Ruger 10/22 (SYSS pest control special). Eley subs would group tighter but just didn't have enough oomph in them to cycle the action (had a funny smell to them as well!). Tried some CCI stingers and Federal HV once but they grouped like a shotgun (the rifle had a 14" barrel so this may have been someting to do with that) Had very few misfires and killed a lot of rabbits, several hares and a fox at ranges up to 110 yards on occasions.

[scrounger]

I've use winchester sub sonics in my .22 all the time and have tried cci and rws but have found them to be very inaccurate in my opinion. I'm sighted in at 50 yards 3 shot groups all but touching and cci and rws wouldn't get any where near a 3 inch group.