.223 or.204

[tikka3006]

are there any real advantages of a 204 over the .223, on paper it looks a better round but what of the reality of shooting it in the field

 

Ian

[Greenbear]

.223 for me every time, more flexible and the .204 only has the edge on the lighter heads.

 

 

 

just thought I would add my opinion as its rather lonely on here

[baldie]

The .204 is meant to shoot the lighter heads.There isn,t a commercial rifle available that will accuratly shoot the 40 grain .204 bullet, so its 39,s 35,s and the deadly 32 grainers only. Ballistically, the .204 pisses allover the 223. I,ve used both, and still do, unlike most people who comment on the .204, and was probarbly one of the first in the UK with one. Its a fabulous fox cartridge, and shoots laser flat, making errors at night in rangefinding a thing of the past. Forget the horror stories you may hear about surface splashes etc...they are bullshit. A .204 makes the same sort of mess as a 22-250. I can recall a couple of woundings with mine....in several hundred dead foxes.

 

 

this was a night out with Vim, 2 or 3 years back, one of these was a long range shot , off the sticks, that was possibly 200 yards.......headshot.

The longest shot i,ve killed a fox with was 293 yards, at night, and it cut it in two.

Just my own findings you understand.

[bigun]

shot the 223 for five years and beleave me the 204 is far better ..try before you buy if you can ..its that fast and no recoil and the killing power is far better in some ways , far safer round ,no real over kill and no big holes , foxs dont run off but drop like a brick when hit even with the small 32grn bullet the only down side is the 32grn aint to good in high wind unless you use the 40grn bullet, but saying all that its still better than the .223 ..

[bigun]

listen to them that have shot both rifles is all im going to add

[londonhunter]

How about this - as yourself how many varmint shooter are there in the UK 3000 or 30,000 shall we take the higher figure

 

Go the the remington and hornady site and find out the turnover + volume of sales of each caliber and you have answered your question

 

204 is getting more and more popoular in the states since launch - put ALL the varmint shooters in UK and we dont come close to the numbers in Montana !

 

204 is widely available in almost every shop in the US and Canada there must be a reason for this

 

I have just start shooting a cooper varmint 204 and I am amazed even shooting 32 grain factory hornady.

 

Try it and you will never regret it

[Finman]

I will second everything that has been said in favour of the .204 so far. I have one for the last 2 years and I cannot think of a rifle that

 

a ) recoils less (for the load)

b ) shoots as flat

c ) kills as clean

 

I know that there are proponents of the .223 because of availability of military brass and the like, but the .204 is certainly a remarkable cartdridge and one that will be with us for the years to come.

 

I shoot a Sako 75 Varmint in .204Ruger and opted for the 39gn Blitzking having tried all others. The 32gn VMax is superb, but the 39gnBltzkng is as good, with better long range accuracy and very similar ballistics. And, when compared with a similar .223 load, it beats it hands down.

 

Get a .204, you know it makes sense

 

Best wishes,

 

Finman

[baldie]

Its not a comparision to be honest as they are as different as apples and oranges. A .204 is meant to run 32 grain bullets, an average .223 runs 55 grain bullets. A better comparison would be the .204 and the .17rem....both hi velocity, light bulletted varmint cartridges......the .204 wins that one too.

Ask yourself what type of shooting you will be doing most of.if its long range lamping for fox, the .204 is the best bet...it drops less than any of the 22 cf,s apart from a swift. This alone will put more foxes in the bag. Misjudged ranges at night educates more foxes than anything else.

Speed kills....it also bucks wind, to a degree.

[tikka3006]

Thanks guys 204 heavy barrel howa varmint it is then

 

Ian

[Alycidon]

20 cal is far superior ballistically, flatter shooting and more energy into the target for the same weight bullet. I hope to have my first 20 shooting in the next couple of months so no hands on experiance though.

 

A

[ejg223]

Just looked at some data,

204 Nos 32gr BT at 500yds 219 ftlbs

223 Nos 55gr BT at 500yds 333 ftlbs

thats 50% more ?

 

edi

[Finman]

Just looked at some data,

204 Nos 32gr BT at 500yds 219 ftlbs

223 Nos 55gr BT at 500yds 333 ftlbs

thats 50% more ?

 

edi

 

 

How many things has anyone managed to hit with a .223 or a .204 at 500yds? and if we are talking about a fox sized target, I am sure it will be as dead with 219ftlbs as it will with 333ftlbs. It will be also interesting if you gave us the drift and drop values for each calibre at similar ranges.

 

best wishes,

 

Finman

[Greenbear]

There we go Ian - That stirred em all up

 

Some great comments though and not ever had the pleasure of using a .204 I will now dive for cover

[bigun]

223 shoots flatish out to 220 yrds then drops like a brick ..204 drops "4.8 at 300yrds in other words aim 4" down off the top of a foxs back and you have him .. iv killed a fox of a bank side of a hill at 278 yrds and aimed bang on and killed it dead in its tracks ..got offerd a .223 for free before i had my 204 said no thanks its a 204 for me ..

[baldie]

Just looked at some data,

204 Nos 32gr BT at 500yds 219 ftlbs

223 Nos 55gr BT at 500yds 333 ftlbs

thats 50% more ?

 

edi

 

Yep, true....but its also almost 50% bullet more too. compare like for like, and the 20 cal is ballistically superior.

[Alycidon]

Just looked at some data,

204 Nos 32gr BT at 500yds 219 ftlbs

223 Nos 55gr BT at 500yds 333 ftlbs

thats 50% more ?

 

edi

 

 

Try running the same weight bullets in the two calibers, i.e 50 grainers.

 

20 cal 50 gr Berger at 500 yards at 3800 fps = 529 ft lbs. In fairness this is in a 20BR case, this has a charge of about 31.0 grains behind it so a bit more powerfull than 223 or 204.

 

As someone said 200 ft lbs will get the job done but is marginal on foxes at that energy level. have a play here;

 

http://www.biggameinfo.com/BalCalc.aspx

 

I would not have said the 204 is a 500 yard rifle on foxes, in 20 you would need to step up to Tac20 maybe or 20PPC & 20BR. But 300 yards is as far as most of us will usually go, I have never even shot at one over 294 yards. 204 will handle that OK and be easier to shoot than 223.

 

A

[craigyboy]

I love my .20, great cal, kills well on foxes and is great fun for long range bunnies and crows. If you look at it ballistically compared to the .223

 

.204 32g v-max has a BC of .205 and can be pushed as fast as 4200 fps

 

.223 40g v-max has a BC of 0.200 and can be pushed about 3800 fps

 

.204 40g v-max has a BC of .255 and can be pushed as fast as 3900 fps

 

.223 50g v-max has a BC of .255 and can be pushed about 3300 fps

 

The advantages are clear from a ballistic point of view fair enough short range energy is down on the lighter bullets but they catch up where its needed at longer range. In my experience its been a great foxing tool under the lamp. I have taken them as far as 250 yards at night and have only ever had one wounded due too an appaling shot by myself where I hit it too far down the back but the mess it made meant that the fox didnt get much more than 20 yards, a testameant to the cartridges ability to do the job even when shot placement is less that perfect, all others I can think of have dropped completely on the spot without so much as a kick this includeds a nice summer evening one at a smidge over 300 yards, I had contemplated a headshot on it as I was worried it might be a bit down on energy but took the heart anyway and it dropped it no probs.

 

I agree with balide too on the surface splash thing, I was told by a few people this would happen, still hasnt happened to me with either the 32g or the 40g v-max.

[cooperman223]

I can only comment on the .223 as that and upward is all i have shot,

i would like to try the .204 it sounds a great varmint round

however i must say that my .223 will shoot bullets from 36gr upto 75gr Amax which has a great bc of .435

higher than a 87gr Vmax, past 500yds thats where the heavier bullet weight will shine.

Its horses for courses.

[Guest vim]

0

[baldie]

All good stuff guys.However, i wouldn,t use either past 400 yards on an animal....because you would need no wind, and a lot of luck to hit it. I use a .223 speedmaster with a 1 in 8" douglas on it.This shoots the 77 grain smk like you wouldn,t believe.I use it for practical rifle....but when we move from 300 yards to 400 and 500....the .308 comes out.The 223 just isn,t accurate enough past those ranges when the wind gets up.....and neither is the .204. .22 centrefire? i dont think the 22-250 can be beaten for real long range stuff...apart from a 6mm.

My favourite cartridge of the lot is the 6mmbr....there,s nothing it wont do.

Folk will argue all day over the two, the one undeniable fact is however, that an average shot will hit more with the .204, purely because it shoots so much flatter, and thats what kills things....accuratley placed rounds.Power, and retained velocity isnt worth jack that which promotes growth and vigour, if it thuds into the bank , old charlie is sat on.

 

edited to add...

Vim makes a very valid point on the .223 and deer. A major plus now, for anyone contemplating the .223.

[ejg223]

Didn't like taking foxes over 300 with the 223 & 55gr.

204 is not much better.

Got a 22-250 now which has only one disadvantage, it's a bit louder.

Otherwise we can legally shoot all deer with it and I will shoot some

deer with it when the 308 is just to loud or hefty.

One great advantage of the 22-250 is one can rebarrel easy to

something interesting.

204 is almost at the end for 20 cal, 223 is made for long barrel life.

One needs to compare swift and 204.

 

edi

[tikka3006]

looking at all the info you guys given I thinl I'll have to have a go at both rifles but ballistically I think the 204 has the edge as a long range varminter and it's long range crow bashing that it will be used for.

 

Ian

[Finman]

well Baldie, there is a solution that incorporates both yours and Vim's positions: why get one rifle when you can have two?? Get a .204 for all out varmint fun, and, a 6mmBR for deer and vermin... Ah, choices, choices...

 

Best wishes,

 

Finman

[baldie]

you,ve got it !

I think the .204 is a cracking round for crows......the buggers cant jump the bullet when its doing 4200 fps.

I think the mistake we all make is trying to push each individual calibre just that little bit too far.I owned a hornet some time back, and it was superb for a group of farms i shoot at manchester, you rarely got a shot a much more than 100 yards.The occasional one was 150 yards, and that was enough for the little gun.Yes it would ballistically kill further out, but it was difficult to shoot accuratly at longer range.

Stupid laws and even stupider home office guidelines bugger us up here. Without them, i would shoot a 6mmbr or the 6.5x47 at everything.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i lie.......................it would be a 300 win mag.

[cooperman223]

I think one thing that we will all agree on is,,

Get both