Mr Average?

[Big Al]

I would imagine most of us (myself included) are keen to show or talk about our best results, that 1/4moa group, the 300yd crow or 400yd fox, rabbit etc etc. The internet is awash with some really superb shooting but rarely do they show the misses or the less than perfect shots, afterall the majoruty of us will be men and I think its in our DNA to be like this

 

So its left me wondering this evening what sort of performance does Mr Average put in over the course of an average year?

 

Punching paper really does bring you down to earth sometimes I find. Last week I shot my PB crow @ 241yds, up 5 clicks from a 100yd zero, center mass shot and over he went. I feel like Im a long range varminter but in truth I would estimate I would kill 1 in 3 at this range. At the minute the thought of a 300yd shot just seems a world away, I havent even got that far on paper yet with any regularity to establish much.

 

I dont really know what is considered good shooting or where it changes from short to medium and then long range with a .223, sometimes I wonder if I expect too much, other times after watching YouTube Im left feeling inadequate. Any one fancy sharing their snots and all facts about CF rifle shooting rather than just the good stuff?

[Jamie]

I don't mind being laughed at!

I was doing some .52 grain A-Max load development a few days ago.

Out of 4 shots at 100 yards I had one "shockingly" small ragged hole with 3 shots, but then blew it with the fourth being a "flyer" at around 2/3's of an inch from the ragged hole....

Then with some 55 V-Max loads I get sub 1/2" groups with all the time at 100 yards, I tried the rounds out to 200 yards. To my disappointment my 1 and only group of 4 rounds was around 1 to 1 1/2"

I then tried the same at 275 yards, (The safest I could do without moving fields), and it was even worse, at around 2 1/2 inches!!...... In my defence, it was over the bonnet of my truck, which was at a very steep decline, and very awkward. I also made several scope adjustments on the turret, which made it worse. Still, surely, it can only get better!!

[Elio]

We just started using sand bags over the bonnet of the land rover with great results, only downside is there that good at keeping you steady you want to reach for them all the time

[MrCetrizine]

I once shot my chronograph in its face. I forgot that the scope is mounted above the barrel

[pork chop]

shot plenty of crows at some good ranges,missed plenty under 100 y too.no fun in hitting them all

[jay666d]

My Dope is getting more reliable every time I shoot... I always take that little black book to scribble down the conditions on the day, the shots made and the clicks used!

 

At the start of this process it was literally hit or miss, but now I can ALMOST guarantee a hit 1st time!

 

I'm using a .223 with 70Gr VLD's through a 26" 1in9 barrel. Best shot was a honeydew melon (70p from ASDA) at 560 yrds! Had a slight tail wind and made a 10.25 MOA vertical adjustment.

 

On occasion I shoot over the bonnet of the Land Rover, using a bipod and a rear bag. It feels very stable. (Except the time I forgot to lock the suspension and as I was lined up to take the shot... The suspension automatically lowers!)

[Big Al]

What sort of accuracy do you guys expect at ranges to say 300yds?

 

Its one thing walking the shots towards a rabbit warren at long range but Im thinking about the ability to judge a shot and make a clean kill with regularity, at least say a 70% success rate.

[jay666d]

That's where your Dope book comes in! The more you do it, the more you'll know. It's like walking it in, days before hand!

 

I spend most of my time shooting steel... Or fruit! Not because I don't like to hunt, but because I'm still honing in on what I want the most... Cold bore shot at a given distance, dialled in and hit 1st time!

 

I say that I don't have the patience for groups, but you need as much patience to build up reliable data!

[1066]

I know what you're saying Al. It's so easy to look good in a short Youtube vid. If the shot goes wrong you simply edit it out and try again, eventually you shoot a good group with no flyers - that's the one that's uploaded.

 

We've all shoot the odd good group but shooting a consecutive series is not the same thing, likewise the difference between 3 shot and a 5 shot groups, considerably more difficult to keep them tight.

 

If you have a look at the results from this benchrest match you'll see that shooting 5 x 5 shot groups, if you could average .5moa in sporter class you would finish in the medals.http://www.targetshooter.co.uk/?cat=59

 

Here's a consecutive series of targets I shot when working up a load when I first put my 6mmbr together. Shot from the benches at Bisley which is about 110 yards with a fair breeze causing a bit of lateral spread. All shot at the same time within a couple of hours.

 

45 consecutive shots. Average .604"/.53moa

 

[gaz6br]

I know what your saying, truth is everyone misses and everyone from time to time as a bad day.

Foxes I don't like to miss if I can help it, me and my buddy had 31 in 3 nights on the stubble he missed 2, And I missed 0. I tend to shoot a load with out missing them miss one or two on the trot strange. Plinking at vermin I like to think I hit more than I miss at sensible range and steady days. I like gong shooting but putting holes on paper bores me

 

Gaz

[Big Al]

What do you consider sensible ranges Gaz and steady days?

[Big Al]

It would be really useful to me guys if we could have some statistics rather than general comments.

 

I agree we can all miss some days etc but im thinking more along the lines of at what distances you can nail 70% of what your shooting at day in day out etc?

[jay666d]

70%... 500 yards, 2 MOA (10") gongs with a .223 & eggs at 200 - 250 yards with a .17HMR

[gaz6br]

What do you consider sensible ranges Gaz and steady days?

 

Out to 400 yards is nice with the 223 ackley or the 6br. Wind at 10mph or below is a great bonus I'm a vermin shooter and don't like to play about at them I want them out the way, but some days on the right ground we will push out to 700 yards. I was hitting a 12 inch gong one after the other at 860 yards with my 6br so I no if I do my part it can be done

 

Gaz

[ds1]

One difference between the comps I shoot and UK comps (longish range rifle ones) is the lack of sighting shots, plus often quite a few points for the cold bore shot. This changes things a bit but is much closer to field shooting.......when is the last time a fox gave anyone 2 sighting in shots after a change of distance.

 

Nice bug-hole groups show what the rifle and load is capable of but under comp / field conditions there are too many variables to do it consistently.......I mean when is the last time anyone shot consistent .25 moa groups outside of benchrest in all conditions, even 1/2 moa.

 

So when people say .25 moa all day long.....does that start with the first 5 shots out of the barrel ???

[Big Al]

Out to 400 yards is nice with the 223 ackley or the 6br. Wind at 10mph or below is a great bonus I'm a vermin shooter and don't like to play about at them I want them out the way, but some days on the right ground we will push out to 700 yards. I was hitting a 12 inch gong one after the other at 860 yards with my 6br so I no if I do my part it can be done

 

Gaz

 

OK Gaz, thats useful info to raise some questions.

 

At 400yds with a favourable wind what size groups would you expect to be shooting, not your best groups, your average ones?

 

As for the 12" gong, I guess this isnt good enough to be shooting at live quarry at that range with any certainty of a kill? I guess you would feel you need to be grouping at a ceretain standard to shoot at vermin, what would you consider that standard to be?

 

Im not looking to stir up any kind of ethics debate here, Im just trying to understand whats going on out there and what I should be working towards. If Im looking at rabbits and corvids then Ive got it into my head that I should be grouping within 2" before taking on these shots on live quarry, Im not keen on leaving anything with a bit missing but still alive. Also Im using a .223 with either 40gr or 55gr ballistic tip ammo, so keeping it real with this caliber and ammo is important for me.

[gaz6br]

With my 223 at 400 it will group good enough for me to take vermin at that range

 

 

400 yard group with 52gr amax, wind call was wrong but it was group size I was after. For me that's good enough for vermin

 

 

100 yard group that tells me it's lucking promising

 

 

200 yards I was more than happy for the 223

 

As for the 6br I only shoot vermin to around the 600 mark, as for rifle shooting it a hit or miss on rabbit, pigeon or crow

 

Gaz

[Guest Stacka]

 

Move to 3:05 ish

[Big Al]

Thanks Gaz, thats really useful to see, what shooting position and supports were used for these groups?

 

Do you consider this good or average performance from yourself?

 

If the groups opened up, at what point would you become unhappy with them?

[gaz6br]

My set up today

 

 

My view today

 

 

Safe to 700 yards

 

 

Gong on bank at 475 yards not a problem and went out to 645 yards

 

Gaz

[Big Al]

Are you sitting on a stool and using the tailgate as a bench?

[jay666d]

Nice day for it Gaz! Nice set up too! :-)

[247sniper]

I shot two rabbits side by side yesterday at 225 yards. Not far at all but I knew they were in the bag before I pulled the trigger, even in 15 -20 mph winds. Reason being i have contentiously made logs and records and put the practice in on steel gongs, out to 800 yards so far.

 

If wind is around the 10mph mark, 500 yard rabbits are gonnas ! lol

 

Steve.

[gaz6br]

Cheers chaps

 

It was a nice day wind 3-7 mph, managed to get infront of a wood so the sun was behind me so perfect.

No stool as of yet I just lean my body over it or lie down in the back of truck when plinking

 

Gaz

[jay666d]

Here's my set up... I need shoot over the bonnet because of the long grass at the top of the hill!