Developing a load.

[Big Al]

Im a novice to reloading so would like to ask the more experienced loaders what route they would suggest I follow to develop my first load for my .223 with a 1:9 twist.

 

I have 40gr v-max and 55gr Sierra BKG bullet heads with N133 powder and Remington 7.5 bench rest primers.

 

I have a precision engineering background and have skilled hands so the concpt of putting a bullet together doesnt appear to be difficult. I think Ive undertood things properly and that the main concept for accuracy are as follows in no particular order.

 

1. Find a bullet that the barrel likes and of the right weight for the application, I appreciate that 40gr may be too light for a 1:9 twist but the guy who sold me tham said that with the right load they might be ok, hence I have some 55gr as well.

 

2. Start at the low end of the recommendated powder weight and work up in increments which are noted until you find the best amount of powder for that bullet.

 

3. The distance the bullet head is seated away from the lands will be important to fine tuning the final spec (length to ogive) for the cartridge.

 

So my question to you guys is this;

 

If I played around with .2gr powder incriments and varied the seating depth buy .005" increments I would have a hell of a lot of bullets to fire so what do you do first?

 

Do you work with a fixed seating depth and then optimise the powder load before going back to the seating depth to fine tune or the other way around or should it be done differently?

 

Also what are sensible increments for changing powder weight and seating depth/length to ogive?

 

I hope the answer doesnt turn into 'War and Peace'

[dannywayoflife]

What I've started doing is I load up batches of 2 rounds to establish an actual max load in your rifle. Then when I've found that I back off .3 grains and do a kind of ocw load work up making up 5 batches of 5 at say .2-.3 charge weight difference (the max charge of these will be at least .3 grains under the actual max in my rifle). As for distance from lands I mainly use sierra match kings and these seem to shoot well at anything from -30 thou up to -10 thou so I just start @-30 and if that shoots with one of the above charge weights I just stop. I'm sure others do a far more scientific methods but this is what I've done in my dta and it's worked.

[gbal]

Components are good.

Set seating depth about 10-15 thou' from lands.

Use Vihtavuori published data for the bullet weight,and start about 1grain below max,load 3-5,then load 3-5 with .2 or .3 grain more,then same again with .2 more-ending .2 below max.

Shoot the lower loads first,watch for any signs of primer cratering,ao stiff bolt lift (unlikely as you are below max.)

You should find one of these loads at least is pretty good (it is indeed a much longer haul to find the very best load for accuracy/velocity).Do you need to-your velocity will be good,and another .2 of a grain will make almost no perceptible difference under 400y,and very little beyond....ditto .2 moa less.

 

You can fine tune later,if you must-but do ask yourself -do you need to,for your application.Is the rifle likely to do better etc....I'd expect to be pretty close in under 15 shots....I note your concern for multiple shott 'load development'-and agree-it's much overdone.

If someone gives tried and tested data here,so much the better...but be aware almost no-one will be giving data near the minimum,hence my suggestion to just mit the lower charges, but do not go over the max...enough is enough...as an engineer you will be acutely aware of the costs in stress/wear/tear/and maybe safety in squeezing the last few fps-which usually reduces accuracy anyhow-there will be a 'sweet spot'/node below the published max,and that's what you are after...in your rifle(they all can vary),and as you note,your bullet weights might not be optimal-so let's get to ball park asap,safely.

[onehole]

Hi BigAl,,,,This is what I would do but also acknowledge others may well do it different and enjoy equal or perhaps better results,,,,I,m well happy with what I do so here goes,,,,,,,,,,In your case i would concentrate on the 55,s you may well be able to get closer to the lands with this head,,,,I like to be just off but up to 5 thou is ok but no more as this gives maximum powder capacity for your case and arguably a better place to be for accuracy potential.The vit133 is ideal and I would generally start at a mid point from book recommendations and work up in .5gr[Never exceed max loads!!unless you really know what your dong!!!],,,some may think this too large a jump but not missed a node yet and fine tune if necessary and at longer range preferably.I generally settle with the first node I get to and is generally getting close to a max book load ,,,sometimes more and dependant on powder capacity of your case and bullet head position.Never needed to play with seating depth unless you are restricted by loading for a magazine. Acute attention to precision round build is vital and everything must be the same.

 

If the above doesn.t get you there then suspects are ,,"you",,?? ,,,,,,,,,bad/worn barrel,,,heavy trigger,,faulty sights,,bad bullets[they do exist!!] try some match quality bulets,,etc etc etcFor a factory rifle in good order you are looking for at least .5 groups from home loads,,,,I would look for better but see how you go,,,best of luck...O

[Tony.H]

^+1 for most of whats been said above, i like oneholes bit where you get close to the lans 5-10thou, i must admit though i am new to getting this close to the lans but i had a rifle built for me and the smith rcommended how to load for the rifle, and its turn out very accurate, But i would go up in .2-.3gr not.5, personnal prefrence.

 

I also like to find my max load first like what dannywayoflife said then i back away from this load .2.3grs. and then follow the dan newberry OCW testing to find my accuracy nodes...

 

http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/#/ocw-test-example/4529811475

 

have a read and see what you think....

[Big Al]

Thanks to you all for the very helpfull replies, there is a lot of similarity in what has been said with only a few differences.

 

So my plan is as follows;

 

Seat the bullet heads 0.015" away from the lands and concentrate on the powder weights first. I plan to go up in 0.5gr increments to start with.

 

I use the gun for vermin and its already accurate enough with factory loads for fox at the ranges I shoot them, Im really looking to tighten things up for the longer range crows and rabbits. If I can get 0.5"@100yds I will be very happy, as things stand I get 0.75-1.0" with factory ammo, again on a good day wind wise.

 

Feel free to comment if you think my plan is flawed, all opinions welcome.

[Tony.H]

Thanks to you all for the very helpfull replies, there is a lot of similarity in what has been said with only a few differences.

 

So my plan is as follows;

 

Seat the bullet heads 0.015" away from the lands and concentrate on the powder weights first. I plan to go up in 0.5gr increments to start with.

 

I use the gun for vermin and its already accurate enough with factory loads for fox at the ranges I shoot them, Im really looking to tighten things up for the longer range crows and rabbits. If I can get 0.5"@100yds I will be very happy, as things stand I get 0.75-1.0" with factory ammo, again on a good day wind wise.

 

Feel free to comment if you think my plan is flawed, all opinions welcome.

only one thing, I would not do .5 in such a small round, .3 is plenty .5 and you could be well over, you need to creep upto your max Not smash through it, safety is always a must first and foremost. you will get there just as quick with only a few more rounds made up......

 

your powder could be .2gr over the weight you think, the brass could be .2gr heavier and have less case capacity, the bullet could be .1gr heavier then its supposed to be, the outside temp has an effect as well, combine all these and thats .5 plus temp.

take your time double check, write everything down your doing as you do it, mark all rounds with a perm marker with grs inside.

 

atb

 

tony

[gbal]

+1 to Tony's cautions....My Vihtavuori book says: 223 V133

 

40 g 25 min to 26.8 max grains and

 

55 g 22.8 min to 25.3 max grains

 

But,as ever,check these.... just a reminder-don't push for hyper velocity (.1 grain gives only about +15 fps)

And as advised,better to go in .3 (you can skip the lowest loadings,and get better,finer data around your likely end point).Good testing-minimal wind,if at all possible!

G

[Tony.H]

also my own load for my old .223 using 55gr nosler was n133 24.6grs. 7.1/2 br rem primers....it started showing pressure at 25.4

when i say pressure it was a very slight flattening to the egde of the primer, i could of gone further, But as i said before there are to many varibles, and what you looking for is accuracy..

24.6grs gave me 3265fps

25.4grs gave me 3350fps, so thats about 132fps per gr, but thats in my chamber and my distance from the lans, and neck tention,which can also cause differing pressure.

 

i would say start at 23gr vit n133 for 55grs would be a safe starting load

supprizingly factory privi 55s topped 3380fps and all primers were flattened....

 

atb

tony

[onehole]

Yeah,,,on reflection I would correct my suggestion of .5 increments,,,,go with the others suggestions of .2,.3 at a time,,,you will better be able to identify where it likes to be in smaller bites.For my defence I guess I,ve had quite a few .223,s and confident in finding what it likes from fewer loads and then fine tune,,,just another way of doing it I guess.Regds ,,,O

[gunner]

i would say start at 23gr vit n133 for 55grs would be a safe starting load
supprizingly factory privi 55s topped 3380fps and all primers were flattened....

 

atb

 

tony.

 

JUST A BIT OF CAUTION id start lower than 23 of N133 , Tony this is obviously ok in your chamber but my 223rems max load with a 55 sierra blitzking and N133 was 22.8 in lapua brass . So you could be firing HOT from the off Ai - as you know every barrels different . Id say more like 22.0 start - 22.2 maybe , it pays to be cautious my friend . Atb tim

[srvet]

I would follow Dan Newberrys OCW method to get an accurate load as fast as possible. The key is in recognising your accuracy nodes rather than making rash assumptions based on a single small group. I find it easier with the OCW method than the audette ladder test which is a PITA! Adjust the powder charge first whilst keeping the seating depth constant . See how well it performs then try adjusting seating depth to fine tune. Otherwise keep everything consistent and concentric

[DaveK]

i would say start at 23gr vit n133 for 55grs would be a safe starting load

Atb tim

I would say start at 22.3gn Viht 133 under a 55gn, forget the lands, seat the bullet to just below the ogive and there's a good chance you may look no further. It's worked well for me in CZ527, Remy 700, Howa and in a friend's Tikka and another friend's something or other (can't remember).

 

Why can't I write m a t e ' s ??

[gunner]

I would say start at 22.3gn Viht 133 under a 55gn, forget the lands, seat the bullet to just below the ogive and there's a good chance you may look no further. It's worked well for me in CZ527, Remy 700, Howa and in a friend's Tikka and another friend's something or other (can't remember).

 

Why can't I write m a t e ' s ??

Its something about automatic editing . Look at my post again the top two sentences were tonys , mine are the ones starting JUST A BIT OF CAUTION

[Big Al]

OK guys,

 

I got a chance yesterday to shoot an OCW test. I had loaded these rounds before deciding that 0.3gr increments would be better but here are my results working in 0.5gr steps. I had fired the number 3 load at another target but it gave a group at 9mm center to center.

 

Looking at these results do you think I could be missing accuracy somewhere in between the 0.5gr increments or would you be happy with these results shot prone off a bag @ 100yds? Number 5 was the highest charge and there was enough target available to suggest that 2 shots went through the same hole on the left.

 

The loads were N133

 

1. 22gr - 13.87mm

2. 22.5gr - 6.88mm

3. 23gr - 9.00mm

4. 23.5gr - 10.12mm

5. 24gr - 8.03mm

 

[gbal]

Al,

I'd be pretty happy with this-let's be spuriously exact and suggest 22.7 g. I would not worry at all about powder weight being .1 out either way (or .2!) as the POI is the same.

Nice shooting- for all practical purposes,what would any slight gain in precision give you (even if it were possible)?

 

With a few scope clicks to zero,you are now clear to shoot mouses. :-)

 

george

 

ps if this was with the dinted scope,it seems ok....

[Big Al]

Its interesting to see what appears to be a pattern George or are they called nodes? the groups seem to shrink then open then shrink again and its making me wonder if there could be a further tightening around 24.5gr which would give me a few hundred extra fps? Then again do I really need the extra speed?

 

Would that be the end of this load development for most of you guys or would you start pushing things out to say 200yds with the prefered powder weights to see the groups open up a bit and try for further fine tuning?

 

I guess the way Im thinking is that at 100yds it doesnt seem to be that difficult getting decent groups whereas the crows Im wanting to shoot will be 200-300yds away and its at this distance when I really need the accuracy.

 

Yes these groups were shot after I had repositioned my scope and seen the mess the rings had made, about an hour later when I was calming down a bit!

[gbal]

Al,yes they are called 'nodes',and the pattern is typically as you say...until the velocity -or something (perhaps spin/vel- goes too far,and shots disperse alarmingly....

 

Yes,check at 200 as that's your intended start range for crows-which are quite narrow,but not so narrow that .2" is often going to be critical. I'd think you can now shoot with the suggested/tested load...fiddle a tad if you wish,but at 200+ an extra 100fps or so is not going to make any discernible difference(less than 1/2 ")-if there were any choice,go for precision-as I say,the crows are more thin than vertically challenged .An inch and a half or so high at 100 should put you dead on at 200,for a fair range of bullets around 50g,and about 8 inches low at 300.You might consider a 250 zero,for minimal adjustment in your 200-300 range-as always,check by field testing.

 

I'm sorry to hear about the scope,but it seems ok..(slight scratches from scope rings are fairly common).

Have you tried phoning TET/sightron?

g