Lawrence Precision Titanium Zodiac Moderator.

[gbal]

Les. It needs to be a pretty sophisticated DB meter to handle the short duration of a gunshot.

I would have thought a blind comparative hearing test of a selection of diff mods and from a selection of mark 1 ear'oles would be more objective than a regular sound meter.

I remember everyone complaining about my old TLD mod at one of the early Quarry shoots despite their claims that it was one of the quietest mods on the market. With lots of rifles firing in close proximity the louder (and quieter) mods really do stand out.

GB. It is fairly well known that the T8's rot out sooner or later, mine certainly rotted in no time, however, I have a T4 on my .223 and it is lasting well at at least 8 years with little maintenance. I do feel that Rich is entitled to a bit of a gripe as his rotted on the inside of the reflex tube, and, though minor, damaged his barrel!

The Lawrence mods are reassuringly expensive? In my experience, that doesn't always follow especially in the world of firearms.

If you can justify the cost then fine. Good value? Maybe it is if you can afford one. I'm sure it is and should be, a very nice unit for that money.

 

 

Rup,

I expect they do wear out,especially if not well looked after.But that is not quite the point-the complaint was dramatically overstated-OK maybe a 'joke?"-but the clear implication was a replacement barrel would be needed,which is not remotely the case,as subsequently admitted-a small mark on the outside only....so itis over alarmist to imply great costs...it may well be that some discount would accrue on a replacement-surely to the point when one of the key points is costs of the respective moderators...

But,what may follow is that T8s wear out-it emphatically does not show that some other make do NOT wear out--that is simply a failure of basic logic,and quite unwarranted here. All other makes would have to wear out at something like twice the rate,as they are something like half the price...I do not know if this is so or not,and neither does anyone else ...yet...though Balddie's experience seems to cast some doubts...we shall see....

Whatever the merits of one make over others might-or not-prove to be,let's have some fair discussion,not half baked non sequiturs in favour of the preferred one...especially as there seem no objective tests.When we also read that an objective db measure test is LESS objective than an explicitly subjective 'test'(how loud is it,Mark one ear),then it's becoming pretty clear that someoe is getting desperate to justify their expenditure.Their prerogative,but others are surely entitled to mention the weakness of their case,at least so far.Anyhow,it has to last more than twice as long to be better value....and be comparably effective on several criteria.Maybe it is.

I'm just asking for a fair test,if there has to be a test,not another set of claims which have no real basis,very meagre evidence,run counter to other informed evidence,or don't bear on the comparisons,or all of these.

I think someone suggested that if £700 is spent,it may be a little difficult to maintain complete objectivity.I know not whether this particular emperor has clothes or not,but the arguments so far have been pretty tattered and threadbare.That does a good product no service at all,if good product it turns out to be(which would not be a surprise,but it's hardly a fact yet - a test for a lifetime of good service takes....err.....a lifetime to validate.Simples.

[oaken]

George, do you ever fall asleep when proof reading your own posts?

That last one was aimed at me for some reason, so I persevered.

Damn near put me in a coma!

[gbal]

Rup,sorry-perhaps I did repeat the basic point (ie let's be fair,and have good evidence-in a word,be moderate!)It may challenge some posters,not you of course.What did you not agree with?

I can be careless about proof reading (not as careless about proof),but can only take responsibility for commas,not comas.

:-)

Gbal

double spellchecked,reread and........ZZZZZZ

[c18rch]

gbal You are missing the point and tbh I am losing the will to pursue this conversation. I did not intend to start a debate on which mods do an don’t have problems, merely pass on my own experience. You are of course entitled to your own opinion, but so far you are either not making that opinion clear or don’t have one other than to pick holes ( ) in mine.

Yes the original statement was wildly over exaggerated but intentionally so. Hence the smiley’s. I think everyone else understood its intention.

 

The latter part “T8s are garbage” I stand by. I know several people who have had the pin holes appear. Not just myself. Although usually on the outside. At this point they are scrap. They whistle and are dangerous depending on where the hole appears. At my club a T8 got a hole in the side and blasted the shooter on the next lane with hot gasses. Whilst the physical damage to my rifle may have been slight the cosmetic damage was not. I don’t care about cosmetic damage hence why I said it was very slight damage.

 

I wasn’t trying to make the point that any other mod wouldn’t rot out, only that T8s do. Yes they do discount a replacement but it is still £120 and why would you pay it when you can spend the same money on another moderator which won’t have the problem. The only other mod I’ve had long term experience of is the wildcat. As above my wildcat has lasted 7 years so far and shows no signs of damage at all. If you can strip the mod you can clean the carp out that causes them to rot.

 

So to summarise, T8s have a history of failing. That is my point and the only point I was trying to make and it was in response to Pete’s comment about T8s being the benchmark albeit in a flippant way.

 

[gbal]

gbal You are missing the point and tbh I am losing the will to pursue this conversation. I did not intend to start a debate on which mods do an don’t have problems, merely pass on my own experience. You are of course entitled to your own opinion, but so far you are either not making that opinion clear or don’t have one other than to pick holes ( )[/size] [/size] in mine. [/size]

[/size]

Yes the original statement was wildly over exaggerated but intentionally so. Hence the smiley’s. I think everyone else understood its intention.[/size]

[/size]

The latter part “T8s are garbage” I stand by. I know several people who have had the pin holes appear. Not just myself. Although usually on the outside. At this point they are scrap. They whistle and are dangerous depending on where the hole appears. At my club a T8 got a hole in the side and blasted the shooter on the next lane with hot gasses. Whilst the physical damage to my rifle may have been slight the cosmetic damage was not. I don’t care about cosmetic damage hence why I said it was very slight damage. [/size]

[/size]

I wasn’t trying to make the point that any other mod wouldn’t rot out, only that T8s do. Yes they do discount a replacement but it is still £120 and why would you pay it when you can spend the same money on another moderator which won’t have the problem. The only other mod I’ve had long term experience of is the wildcat. As above my wildcat has lasted 7 years so far and shows no signs of damage at all. If you can strip the mod you can clean the carp out that causes them to rot.[/size]

[/size]

So to summarise, T8s have a history of failing. That is my point and the only point I was trying to make and it was in response to Pete’s comment about T8s being the benchmark albeit in a flippant way. [/size]

OK accepted-I'll no doubt be even more in agreement when my T8s expire,and the 'evidence' seems to suggest there are more durable mods available,even at non titanium prices.The safety point is a new one to these posts-but important,of course.It seems that there are better 'benchmarks' such as North Star,ASE generally-I'll be even more disappointed if/when my North Stars fail.

The titaniums are interesting,and someone should try them.If they are good,they will show that,whether other makes fail or not,then a cost effective comparison might be possible.Unless an even better mousetrap comes along in the next 20 years or so (your 7 years x cost premium for titanium).

[Offroad Gary]

Jacksons will give you 40% of the rrp trade in against any of their mods. I traded a jetz for a maxim and got 40% of 300 (£120) off the price of a new maxim, not even the same product or manufacturer. Only problem with the jetz is they drop rust down the barrel. Peter J is an absolute gentleman when it comes to customer service, gets my vote every time.

 

Isnt it ironic that theres a set of ear defenders next to the titanium mod in the first picture in the advert.

[Will0]

Isnt it ironic that theres a set of ear defenders next to the titanium mod in the first picture in the advert.

The Lawrence moderator I heard had a loud ting, but took away the boom well. Maybe the ear protection is making the ting unnoticeable?

[gbal]

OK,lads...there's a choice.I'm not convinced either way,and never was.Just have a little trouble with moderators and arguments that are full of holes.Here's the garbage:

 

Some people have had their T8s fail in around 5 years,and some have not.

If you spent £240 on the T8 it seems you can get £120 back in p/ex for another moderator.

So that's £24 per year,if you unlucky enough to have a 5 year failure.

You might have 5 such failures ,one every 5 years,total cost £600 over 25 years.

A titanium seems to be at least £600.

If it lasts 25 years without any problems,you are breaking even,and might go ahead.(I won't speculate on what residual value titanium might have,or the very complex sums involved in working out loss of interest on the capital expended-but it will be more for the £600 outlay now).

Simples ,after all.

 

This discussion has helped me decide that I am not going to buy either,if/when my various mods give up,but might stay with ASE /North Star.

And I hope everyone else enjoys quiet and safe shooting,whatever choices they make.

[Finman]

This is quite a compelling argument and one I can't see a way to overturn...I would rather spend money on decent ear protection (which now I've done, but, sadly, past the point of no return) than on an expensive piece of kit that doesn't seem to outperform the competition. Quiet wins every time, even if it is through a cardboard tube as far as I'm concerned. In case weight is the argument, any moderator will unbalance a rifle so, I practice off hand shots with the moderator on, and so far can't complain with what can be achieved.

 

Best wishes

 

Finman

[ChrisF]

They look , like fanastic bits of kit , and I want one , BUt it would have to be longer & have less of the can telescoping back , and a lock on it , maybe a custom version ?

 

 

later Chris

[tackb]

to me it seems simple ? they are twice as expensive as the competition, if they really are as good as touted in comparison to the others surely we would be tripping over them on the ranges and every stalker I met would have one instead of the lighter hardy for example?

 

just another moderator , you pay your money and takes your choice......

[grimrecruiter]

I'm a novice and know nothing but isn't this just down to personal taste. It's possible to buy rifles for stalking that cost £1,000 new and its possible to buy rifles for stalking that cost £10,000 +. Most are capable of punching holes in deer well under 3".

 

As it happens I have shot with a Lawrence Mod and what I would say is that the balance of the rifle seems virtually unaffected with a Lawrence (Eclipse) on or off. Would I buy one yes - do I have the budget probably not but I do admire the workmanship.

 

As people have said its your choice and your budget.

[achosenman]

On a side note I've just managed to take apart my Spartan after 1900rds+ of 223. TBH it was a tough job because I didn't look after it. Three baffles were welded together and severely gas cut. I spoke to Craig he mentioned that he had some that were used in testing and replaced the stainless steel centre's and sent them down to me FOC. With service like that it would have to be the ultimate moderator to get me to part with £700.

 

ATB

[Rabbitter]

Hi all

 

I have been lurking on here for a while, but figured I would make my first post as a user of the Lawrence Precision moderators.

 

It seems that whenever these products are discussed on the web, they draw negative comment based purely on cost - often from people who have never owned them and make a point of saying that they never will. I have run a Nexus on my 6.5x55 Sauer for the past couple of seasons. I chose it based on weight and materials used (and expected longevity), but was completely wowed by the fit and finish when it arrived.

 

I have a Wildcat Predator 8 on my .223 which makes a heavyish gun very heavy. This isn't an issue as it is a long range, varminting type setup, but there is no way I would want such monster hanging off the end of my stalking rifles. I am not a fan of the T8 and whilst respecting the quality of the ASE items, they upset the rifle balance to an unacceptable level (IMO of course).

 

It's hard to be objective about sound attenuation levels unless you do side by side tests with the same rounds, but from my subjective view, the Nexus reduces the bark of the 6.5x55 perfectly adequately. I guess I could move up to the Zodiac, but I like the slender form factor of this model.

 

When it came to needing moderator for another rifle, I didn't hesitate to go for another LP. This time, I picked out another Nexus, but the compact version at 300 grams to put on a Sako 85 in 30-06. Despite cautions from my RFD that this might be a 'little-bit-little', it works well for my needs. Basically, I was happy to trade some attenuation for weight given that apart from during practice, I might only make one or two shots during an outing. Having said all that, I was pleasantly surprised by the amount of sound reduction afforded by the little unit.

 

As to cost, I dont' know where the £700 comes from as I paid £600 for mine. That's still a fair whack, but I figure each one will last forever and in the meantime, I have two exquisitely fashioned items which look great on the rifle, maintain balance and function as they should. I don't have to worry about gas cutting or corrosion and despite being out in all weathers both here and abroad, the finish remains new-looking.

 

When I replace the Predator 8, I will probably go for the Zodiac.

 

regards

 

 

Ian

[Red Cedar]

Hi all,

 

I have been viewing various forums for some time, and although unusual for me, I would like to put my experiences forward. I have been shooting for many years, and have used all types of scopes, rifles , moderators and various kit, and personally have found it best to stick to well made kit . I currently use a Schmidt and bender scope ( £1300 ish) Sako 85 in 243 ( £1400 ish) and the Lawrence Precision Nexus ( £600 ish). I happen to live in Nottingham, and listening to the good reports up at the rifle range, I went for the Nexus. I have to say the quality and service from Simon has proven excellent, ( even better than the BMW dealers around here) lol.

 

Quality costs , but you get what you pay for. I will be going for the Zodiac very soon, on my 308 Blaser.

 

Cedar.

[Danpd]

I have had a Lawrence Eclipse on test for over a year now, very well made piece of kit, and in the configuration supplied just as quiet as any other decent mod on the market. Simon provided excellent service and communication throughout the transaction.

 

As with all things, some people will always gravitate to higher end products, and accept the associated price tag. What I will say is that there are not many manufacturers who can offer the array of options that Simon offers with his products on a one off order.

[Wsm]

just another moderator , you pay your money and takes your choice......

tackb, your subsequent posts have been removed simply because you've said it quite succinctly above and its now getting repetitive with you now bizarrely accusing various mods of some sort of advertising campaign for a company that doesn't even advertise on the site

 

I can't really get my head round this assumption that custom made titanium mods with a life time guarantee and virtually no maintenance should be twice as quiet and have the same price tag as mass produced items made with considerably cheaper materials

 

It appears that there are two camps here that are those that have them and those that haven't but have a friend who's got a friend who ........

 

I've had two Lawrence mods (both paid for for those that think theres some sort of conspiracy going on ),one on a lightweight stalker that was built for carrying and controlled the sound adequately,and another built purely to suppress the noise from a rather short 270 which to my ears was easily on a par with the Reflex.Said moderator was returned for modification when the rifle went and I wanted it shortened for another project.It was sent off on a Thursday and returned back on the following Saturday refinished foc to remove a few marks it had picked up which in anyones book is great service as DanPD has highlighted

 

Fortunately the LP is just one of the multitude of moderator manufacturers that cater for all brackets so its really up to the buyer to decide

[Admin 0A]

Gentlemen,

 

Disappointingly, this thread has become one of the most heavily moderated threads posted on UKV; we've also had to lock it twice.

 

We knew on initiating it that it was likely that it would draw what BD has described as the "Bentley Key-Strokers" who track and 'spoil' at every mention of Lawrence mods across the www.

 

Could we remind people of the UKV principles and that they are not compelled to post:

 

If bitterness is the only thing an individual can post; they can exercise the intelligent option of choosing NOT TO POST.

 

Let us unlock this thread with a reminder of grimrecruiter's post below that points out that, just as with expensive rifles, 'cost / value' is a buyers personal decision.

 

Any other argument is as boringly puerile as individuals arguing that a Rem 700 is everything that a full expert-built custom rifle is, but at a fifth of the price. No more please

 

I'm a novice and know nothing but isn't this just down to personal taste. It's possible to buy rifles for stalking that cost £1,000 new and its possible to buy rifles for stalking that cost £10,000 +. Most are capable of punching holes in deer well under 3".

 

As it happens I have shot with a Lawrence Mod and what I would say is that the balance of the rifle seems virtually unaffected with a Lawrence (Eclipse) on or off. Would I buy one yes - do I have the budget probably not but I do admire the workmanship.

 

As people have said its your choice and your budget.

[sako 75 .243]

Well....ive got 2 T8s had them for over 10 yrs on a .243 and .17rem........1000s of rounds through both of them...no problems so far......ya pays ya money and takes ya chances!!

 

so pleased with them ive put one on my AR!

[Tony.H]

Well....ive got 2 T8s had them for over 10 yrs on a .243 and .17rem........1000s of rounds through both of them...no problems so far......ya pays ya money and takes ya chances!!

 

so pleased with them ive put one on my AR!

i keep seeing this phrase....ya pays ya money and takes ya chances!!......but arnt these gaurenteed for life or something? if so then its an investment? everyone keeps saying £600 ok its thats alot to some people, but to others its not, but ive only ever brought second hand mods and had to trust the bloke selling to me. i think you have ya money and you makes your choice is what you do, like nv, or thermal, you want the best, but you can only afford middle of the road stuff, so you settle for that, but if you had the extra youd buy it, i think its the same here, i mean if it does what its supposed to do which is dull the sound at the gun end, who does not want a mod thats lightweight with a guarantee like that, i suppose most of us dont put that much importatnce on a sound mod, as most just get what everyone else has if its cheap enough, i also think if mods were to taken off fac and be allow to be brought over the counter as it were, you try alot more mods out as well, ive stuck to ase utra, but id like to try atec, and olc, and dm80, the hardy one as well, but because its so much hassel with the fac, you just stick to what you know and what others have said they like about there mod.

but from what ive read about this chaps mods they do what it there supposed to and the service is excellent, so why all the negativity, i have no idea, good luck too the chap...

 

tony

 

edited, i forgot too put ? after a question.....

[achosenman]

What does garaunteed for life mean? That's a big statement. I read comparisons to BMW being made etc.They have a huge network behind their guarantee. LP is a one man band. When he looses interest, dies or sells the lathe, what value the garaunteed then?

 

The claim that they are the best is unsubstantiated and that is the problem. When you consider I purchased a 2009 Landrover Defender 110se for a shooting vehicle, the price of one of these mods is neither here nor there. But for me, value for money is.

 

As for a better service? A few years ago I rang LP to make enquiries on several occasions. He never returned my calls, a bit like Clive Ward and his NV sales. The claims don't match my personal experiance.

 

ATB.

[Tony.H]

sorry the gaurenteed for life thing was a question, ive forgot to put ?.

Strange how different people have different experiences, ive met simon, i think it was about 4-5 years ago, he helped me out and it was nothing to do with a sound mod.

But the chap could not have be more helpful, i thought all the kit he had was very impressive and he took me a tour of his house and met his wife, he shown me his projects that he'd got going, hes a very interesting person, and very passionate about what he was going to be doing.

 

As for landrovers, well there ok, and ive put them though there paces in the past. but then theres toyota hilux..each one with there own quailites and pros and cons, as of most things in life, it falls under your own perspective and opinions of what should be and should not, based on an experience.. i dont see the point in putting something down, if theres no actual experience of the product, thats like the blind leading the blind.

 

 

atb

tony

[achosenman]

Sorry I obviously failed to make myself clear. My reference to the Landrover was not to do with them being the best but rather the fact that at £21000 for a dedicated shooting vehicle, £700 is not going to appear on the affordability radar.

 

The Landy falls apart, even the latest ones. But everyone and his dog can fix them. I used Shoguns and L200's prior to the Landy. My last L200 I used for shooting (I had from new) developed a problem at three years that Mitsubishi couldn't seem to fix and they refused to help anyone else fix it. A promise is only as good as the deed. They failed to deliver, I ditched the product and moved on.

 

However the promises being made with regard the moderator seem to me imposible to honour simply because "a lifetime" is a vast amount of time and one man cannot possibly gauantee that.

 

Accepting the fact that in reality there can be no lifetime guarantee, makes the Ti moderator just like every other mod and therefore for me, not worth the money. If however it could be proved to be the quietst and most effective out there, it could be argued to be worth the price, but where's the data to prove it?

 

ATB

[Tony.H]

to be honest id like one, but i cannot afford it at this time, and at the minute my ase utra seems ok, but i would like something less heavy and to give the rifle more balance as i walk everywhere, this would be a bonus.

 

atb

tony

[Jamie]

I don't know the man, or anything about the mods he sells. Do I think it's over priced, maybe??.... But that has nothing to do with the quality, the warranty or the man. It's just principle. I don't think ANY mod is worth that amount of money...

However, there seems to be this mind-set, at least in the UK anyhow. Where people will put more effort into slagging something off that they are not happy with,(Whatever it may be) than praising something that is good.

A simple analogy; MOST people will sit around a pub table with mates and moan about a bad experience they had when stopped by the Police. But very few people would praise the Police when they had a good experience with them.

And before anyone tries to say "That's because no-one has had a good experience with any" that's total 5h**!

I agree it's annoying when there's no real data to compare something to, (If that's the case) But It's not right or fair to slate someone's business or their product when you have not even tried one out. After all, British/English engineering companies are few and far between these days. So where possible they should be supported!

Just another opinion.....

Jamie