.223 bullet or grenade

[w0rks2much]

Hello folks,

 

Some advice please?

 

I've recently purchased a nice Remington 700 in .223 that I'm using for shooting Muntjac. 55gn Sierra SP 1365 and H322 powder with the recommended load.

 

On Friday I took a nice broadside heart shot at around 110 yards, The entry point was a good rib shot but it broke the main rib and the two either side, once inside the bullet split into around 6 pieces and acted like a shotgun. None of the bullet fragments exited the MJ but the inside looked dreadful and it wasted a lot of meat.

 

The far ribcage and leg was blasted, the shoulder cavity was blown out and the blood damage extended up the shoulders and around the neck.

 

Has anyone else had this problem with this bullet?

 

Any other suggestions for a good .223 bullet for Muntjac?

 

Much appreciated.

[gbal]

I understand your concern.But almost any bullet can on occasion

'spoil' meat,especially if it hits bone(s).You will get other suggestions/recommendations here-pay most attention to those that have most experience with a bullet.One offs should raise concern,but are not good enough evidence in themselves,and only the same species is really relevant.But there are other options.

US bullets will not be designed for Muntjac specifically,as they have few similar size deer.

Uber velocity does not help,either,as it tends to increase fragmentation.

Gbal

[DW58]

I've shot more than a few Roe deer with my .222 Rem rifle (always legal in Scotland). I used to use Nosler Solid-base boat-tail soft points before these were discontinued (luckily I had quite a stock), as these were excellent Roe bullets, but nowadays almost everything in .224 from US manufacturers is intended either for target or varmint use and thus have very thin jackets and explosive expansion.

 

I'd suggest using European bullets such as Lapua, Norma, RWS etc. as it's fully expected that these will be used on smaller deer species and are thus constructed to suit. Perhaps the Lapua 55gr PL5006 JSP or something similar.

[achosenman]

I agree. The vast majority of 22 cal bullets are designed for vermin. That means explosive expansion. Good for vermin, no too good for chest shots on deer.

 

You can use heavy for calibre or go Nosler Partition. They work well but are more difficult to find. The other bullet from the US is the Barnes TSX. Reloading Solutions had both when I enquired for a pal suffering from the same problem, but that was last year. It might be worth a call.

 

ATB

[achosenman]

Double post, what's the matter with this BBS tonight?

[Tony.H]

63gr sp sierra, or if you can, neck shoot the litte buggers.....privi do a 55gr sp as well

[Mash67]

55g sierra gameking is a sturdy bullet for the calibre, but 'speed' will be the issue even with tougher bullets. I now load slower than 3000 to try and reduce this damage, but i'm using 243.

have seen many roe shot in the past with 22/250 and these bullets though, I thought there was a lot of difference between b tip and gameking in 224 Btip being more explosive as you would expect.

[gbal]

The consensus is clear-avoid bullets designed for varmints.Options then become the european (roe) deer designed ones (Norma SP worked well) or sierra game kings-clue is in the name! Depending on the twist in your rifle,perhaps a heavier bullet (as Tackb says)-more weight generally means less break up,and a bit more knockdown energy. Do not be tempted to go for high velocity in small deer loads-distances will not be long,and you will reduce/avoid fragmenting bullets.Small varmints are quite a different proposition,though a good small deer load will dispatch varmints too.It just does not work the other way round.If you are shooting a few,it might be cost effective to buy loaded European (roe) ammo for this application-your extra cost will be of the order of 50p per deer-but you are much more likely to have a successful outcome,and then reload to the same specs.

Gbal

[w0rks2much]

Hi Folks,

 

Thank you for your great advice it's very much appreciated.

 

I'll be moving towards European bullets from now on, I guess right tool for the job springs to mind, (it just didn't occur to me ). I honestly thought the 55gn Sierra Gameking 1365 would do the trick.

 

I prefer to reload as I have all the gear plus it ticks my boxes to load my own, I just love it. I can get a 5 shot clover leaf at 100yds with the current mix, so I'll be head/neck shooting to use up the rounds.

 

Gun shop here I come.

 

Thanks again.

 

[gbal]

Hi Folks,

 

Thank you for your great advice it's very much appreciated.

 

I'll be moving towards European bullets from now on, I guess right tool for the job springs to mind, (it just didn't occur to me ). I honestly thought the 55gn Sierra Gameking 1365 would do the trick.

 

I prefer to reload as I have all the gear plus it ticks my boxes to load my own, I just love it. I can get a 5 shot clover leaf at 100yds with the current mix, so I'll be head/neck shooting to use up the rounds.

 

Gun shop here I come.

 

Thanks again.

 

That's fine-sierra game kings 'should' have been OK-at the very least not a wrong option prior to trying them.Maybe just a one of,but you can check.

Much mischief has come about from the wrong choice of bullet,even if they did shoot tight groups-what is needed is one bullet of the right construction in the right place-aand it's the first shot that needs to be accurate.Grouping in a stalking rifle is just a check that first round point of impact is consistent-you won't be three shot grouping on any deer! Given reasonable precision-one and a half moa isn't too far out,and should be easily attainable,correct bullet and placement is way way ahead of small group,for the given reasons,and given a choice,go for bullet performance rather than unneeded tiny grouping. Both of course are good to have.But terminal performance on deer isn't about uber-max velocity and sub 1/4 groups.God shooting!

G

[achosenman]

Hi Folks,

 

Thank you for your great advice it's very much appreciated.

 

I'll be moving towards European bullets from now on, I guess right tool for the job springs to mind, (it just didn't occur to me ). I honestly thought the 55gn Sierra Gameking 1365 would do the trick.

 

I prefer to reload as I have all the gear plus it ticks my boxes to load my own, I just love it. I can get a 5 shot clover leaf at 100yds with the current mix, so I'll be head/neck shooting to use up the rounds.

 

Gun shop here I come.

 

Thanks again.

 

 

You could step up to 65gn Game king or find another accuracy node lower down the velocity spectrum with your current bullet.

 

Replies regarding lower velocity etc. is spot on. I harvest a lot of deer and from my observations over the years, velocities below 3000fps with properly designed bullets are the only way to go. Even the 270 Win gently nudging a 130gn bullet along below 3000fps harvests Roe and Munties without blowing the front end off. For the bigger stuff I just use 150's at 2950fps and there is nothing in the UK that walks away from it.

 

ATB

[bigyin]

i would say that was a "one off" , i use the same gameking bullet in my .223 and have shot 21 roe with them in the last few months and havent had any problems with meat damage, the load i use is 23.8 gr of n133

[achosenman]

i would say that was a "one off" , i use the same gameking bullet in my .223 and have shot 21 roe with them in the last few months and havent had any problems with meat damage, the load i use is 23.8 gr of n133

 

Not so rare in my experience I'm afraid. I used to use Game Kings in a 223 and 243 and 308. I used to get occasional bullet blow ups with the 243. The last straw was a 50yd buck broadside on offhand. It blew the front end off...very embarrassing. The last failure I had with the 223 was with 55gn Game King. Again 50yd broadside on buck. It failed just below the skin. It failed to penetrate the chest and carved a dinner plate size chunk of skin and pelage from around the impact site. The shock knocked the buck off its feet. I had time to run over and pin the animals neck with my foot and put another into its ear. The 308 Game King destroyed more Fallow in one outing than any other bullet.

 

I stay away from Sierra's for hunting these days.

 

ATB

[srvet]

I have used the 53 grain Barnes out of a 22/250 on roe at sub 30 yards, shot through the shoulder , hitting bone and the bullet has destroyed the vitals and left a 50p sized exit. No excessive meat damage at all, in fact you could literally eat up to the hole!

 

Worth having a look at this article on a more extreme 22 calibre and meat damage

 

http://www.gsgroup.co.za/22x64.html

[22cf]

Ive shot a lot of Muntjac with the 50 grain Sierra Varminter bulet which made a tiny entry hole and a 10p sized exit wound. Great Muntjac bullet.

[bigyin]

 

Not so rare in my experience I'm afraid. I used to use Game Kings in a 223 and 243 and 308. I used to get occasional bullet blow ups with the 243. The last straw was a 50yd buck broadside on offhand. It blew the front end off...very embarrassing. The last failure I had with the 223 was with 55gn Game King. Again 50yd broadside on buck. It failed just below the skin. It failed to penetrate the chest and carved a dinner plate size chunk of skin and pelage from around the impact site. The shock knocked the buck off its feet. I had time to run over and pin the animals neck with my foot and put another into its ear. The 308 Game King destroyed more Fallow in one outing than any other bullet.

 

I stay away from Sierra's for hunting these days.

 

ATB

that surprises me mate ,as the sako gamehead factory rounds use the same bullet (or so i believe) and there must be thousands of them used on deer each year with good results , were you running your loads pretty hot ?

[achosenman]

that surprises me Sir ,as the sako gamehead factory rounds use the same bullet (or so i believe) and there must be thousands of them used on deer each year with good results , were you running your loads pretty hot ?

 

No not especially hot. They certainly were within the normal range for calibre. This was about twenty years ago. I had used Sierra for several years beforehand without trouble but then suddenly I was getting all sorts of issues. I even had some bullets shed jackets in the 308. I found one Fallow with the jacket in it's neck with the core under the skin on the far side of it's chest cavity.

 

I switched brand and never looked back.

 

ATB

[bigyin]

cheers il keep a close eye when using these bullets, can i ask what you started using for deer after you stopped using the sierra ?

[tackb]

,,,,,, you could try a propriety 75g ballistic tip or similar , less explosive due to a higher sectional density and also a lower velocity from a 223 ?

[achosenman]

cheers il keep a close eye when using these bullets, can i ask what you started using for deer after you stopped using the sierra ?

 

I switched to Nosler Partition for the 223 then found Barnes. The Barnes you don't need to them drive hard and it is accurate, more so than the Partitions. These days I do what tackb suggests. I use heavy for calibre in the 223 or Barnes and Nosler/Barnes/Swift/Berger for the 270.

 

ATB

[w0rks2much]

Hi Guys,

 

Just had a response from Sierra, a very helpful chap has stated that they're a varmint round not what I understand to be a game round despite being called game king???

 

You live and learn.

 

I've ordered some Barnes TSX bullets, give those bad boys a go.

 

Cheers.

[gbal]

Hi Guys,

 

Just had a response from Sierra, a very helpful chap has stated that they're a varmint round not what I understand to be a game round despite being called game king???

 

You live and learn.

 

I've ordered some Barnes TSX bullets, give those bad boys a go.

 

Cheers.

 

Your original post said bullet was a Sierra 55g SP(you did give number as 1365)

 

There is no sierra 55g SP

 

Sierra 55 SBT is a boat tail Game King 1365

Sierra 55 SPT is a Varminter 1360

Sierra 55 Blitzking 1455

Sierra 55 HPBT 1390

 

So it's not really clear which bullet was used,as there isn't a 55gSP,but there is a 1365 (game king BT).

As you say,we learn all the time.......I can remember when all stalking bullets (vermin too!) were exposed lead SP,not a bit of plastic or hollow point in sight.The odd one failed then too...Whatever,I hope your new Barnes TSX work fine.

[w0rks2much]

 

The bullet I was using was a 55 grain Sierra ("Soft Point" as I call them) 1365.

 

I included the 1365 to completely identify the bullet if anyone required it, I could have typed in the complete name of Sierra 22 cal .224 dia 55 gr. spitzer boat tail 1365 (game king) but it seemed a bit long for me.

 

Hopefully people got the gist of what I was getting at?

 

The keys are sooooo small and my thumbs are sooooo big.

 

The Barnes come very highly recommended, so I have high hopes. I'm going to try the same H322 powder as this produced a very accurate round in .223 and I have a tub.

 

Any advice on powder for the Barnes 55 grain TSX FB 22444?

 

Thanks

[gbal]

OK,that's clear.There is no end of mischief on this site by OPs giving partial information,or even erroneous info-the bullet number is definitive, (when correct) though55gSBT game king isn't too long.

You do get inconsistent information-often one off failures-which should not be ignored-and the nice chap from Sierra who said your bullet was a varmint one probably didn't refer to the Sierra information that spitzers are designed for controlled penetration and expansion...wait for it ..."in medium/heavy game for calibre"....so is that muntjac or not....I can well see why you chose that bullet,but you had a failure.

The Barnes TSX triple shock are 'all copper' and have a good reputation when used on appropriate species.Maybe best to load for moderate velocity and see how that goes-you don't need max+ velocity at 150yards. In all fairness to bullet makers,UK species are not explicitly what their bullets are designed for,and muntjac are a bit one off-but we should have enough UK based field experience around on here.

Do report on the Barnes,as we all want efficient bullets-they are very definitely not all the same!

Good luck with them

Gbal