Permissions

[wabbit evaporator]

I'd like to ask a few of you your opinions on this.......

 

I am lucky enough to be able to shoot over ground that belongs to a family member of mine. Nice open but safe rifle ground in Norfolk. I was there this weekend having a wander, mainly down the bridlepaths. I'd grabbed a farm mule and was investigating what I thought was a fox earth (admittedly off the footpath on some ropey looking drill) when I was approached by someone dressed head to toe in cammo and carrying a rifle. He'd obviously been sat in the hedgerow opposite (which is where i would be if I was staking out the same ground). I got one hell of an ear-full for being off the footpath etc. and was told that he was carrying out "contracted vermin control" and that by wandering around off footpaths I was not only breaking the law but putting myself in danger. Couldn't get a word in edge ways to explain......... to begin with.

 

To cut a long story short, the 'keeper on this particular piece of ground kindly allows a couple of guys from the local village to come down and shoot a few rabbits, crows and foxes. It turns out however that the guy I ran into was not one of these individuals but a mate thereof and had permission from his pal rather than the keeper or landowner.......

 

Has anyone ever heard of this kind of arrangement where guys with shooting permission shop it out to others???? Is this even legal??? I hate to think that someone will be deprived of shooting ground over this but surely there are better ways to go about things......

 

 

[Wildcat69]

I am estate manager and that would be the first thing I would expect is to be contacted about this straight away. I would be furious!!!!!!!!

[wabbit evaporator]

If it were me I would contact the land owner and explain what happened to him.

Oh don't worry about that, first thing I did. Bit of an awkward situation to be in as had no idea who the guy was but knew something wasn't right.

 

More interested in if anyone's ever heard of shooting permissions being "sub-let" so to speak.

[Gunsgobang88]

Hi,

 

From the original post it appears you have permission to shoot from a family member who is the landowner. Is the keeper an employee or are the shooting rights let out to a syndicate who employ him? If he is an employee then procedures need to be tightened up to prevent this sort of thing happening, this 'friend of a friend' and 'contracted vermin control' claim is asking for trouble and is potentially unsafe.

 

If the ground is let then the agreement needs checking to establish who has what shooting rights and who is notified or appointed as the point of contact when anyone with permission wants to shoot,

 

Alan

[wabbit evaporator]

Exactly. Shot there for years and as said landowner is a family member.

 

Shoot is in-hand and 'keeper is an employee of the estate. Same two guys have shot there for a while I am told, usually shooting pigeons and rooks off the drill at this time of year. Landowner allows the 'keeper to get on with things (quite rightly) so had no idea anyway. Keeper however was furious.

 

Same as any other person with half an ounce of common sense- I'd always keep well away from anyone shooting if I knew they were there whether that be decoying, roost shooting or whalloping rabbits with a rifle but as you said, this isn't particularly safe as is.

 

There's clearly been a break down in communications here but as asked originally, whether legal or not, is it usual for people to allow others onto their shooting permissions?

[gunner]

Exactly. Shot there for years and as said landowner is a family member.

 

Shoot is in-hand and 'keeper is an employee of the estate. Same two guys have shot there for a while I am told, usually shooting pigeons and rooks off the drill at this time of year. Landowner allows the 'keeper to get on with things (quite rightly) so had no idea anyway. Keeper however was furious.

 

Same as any other person with half an ounce of common sense- I'd always keep well away from anyone shooting if I knew they were there whether that be decoying, roost shooting or whalloping rabbits with a rifle but as you said, this isn't particularly safe as is.

 

There's clearly been a break down in communications here but as asked originally, whether legal or not, is it usual for people to allow others onto their shooting permissions?

no its not unusual for others to shoot ! i have that arrangement with a friend on a shoot near cheltnam right next to his house ! but i do admit i dont go there very often as im worried that some thing will go wrong !! iv never met the land owners ! so it seems to me off limits ! there is a path through the fields too ! and regular dog walkers ! i only go when my friend can make it with me!!!

i remember him saying , its ok , just say your shauns friend if anyone approaches you !! And that iv got permission through him !! a little worrying to me !!

[Swamp Donkey]

I take a few mates on mine, they don't go without me though, and if they did, I wouldn't consider them as mates any longer, but, if one asked first, that'd be fine with me, and the landowner as I'd let him know that 'joe bloggs' is popping over to blast a few pigeon etc.

but, in your case, I think the friends of friends need a talking to, as do the two 'official' shooters

[sonic]

I don't know about you but I like to have my permission in writing. As armed trespass is a good way to lose your ticket. I have been told by one friend I could go on such and such just say your my mate I believed him after I spoke to the land owner.

 

[garyw]

you should have told him to "f*ck off" its lucky it wasnt him with a hole in his ar*e from you.

had it a few times on some of my spots bunny bashers out when the land owner doesnt know they are there-just a simple phone call is all it takes i phone every time.

i soon put them right if i dont know they are there it cant be 100% safe.

NUMPTYS.

[gaz6br]

Not on at all, keeper next to me would go wild if I did that.

[Tony.H]

unless the chap who has permission on there to shoot, has permission to give permission to others, then no.

i had something simlar, so i called the police as the lad said he was told by his mate he could shoot there, and his mate had only been given verble permission to shoot there from the farmer that rents the land off of the person who owns the land who gave me sole permission to shoot his land. get your head round that.

so i had him removed from the land and his mate was removed as well and the farmer has never asked anyone since.

the whole thing was dangerous, he was shooting an air rifle and wearing head to toe camo laying on the floor, i shoot .223 on this land, and because its in a dip i shoot down into the field and thas where this lad was as he needed to be closer to the rabbits .....

[sonic]

You can also fall foul if the farmer is a tenant and gives you permission when he isn't entitled. there a various differences in tenancy agreements but most only allow farmer and direct family to shoot rabbits. Some allow you to nominate one person but your permission is from his landlord.

A local estate has had so much trouble with poaching and the abuse of the permission system all tenants have been told no third party has permission and pest control was taken in hand by the estate. It had got to the point nobody was sure who was telling the truth when challenged.

[Swamp Donkey]

+1

MOD tenancies allow the farmer to give permission for vermin and ground game, but not deer as the secret handshake society (oops, DDM) do it, or are supposed to anyway, even humane dispatch of a deer tangled up in razor wire 'has' to be done by them, ever tried getting hold of one at 3am ?

[sonic]

We used to have a farm with what was then north west water I managed to get ground game including deer (we were planting shelterbelts around a lot of the fields). So I could protect the tree's it helps when their forestry dept is paying for them for our part we did all the fencing. I wanted to start a small partridge shoot on part of the farm but couldn't get them to agree, as they had a pheasant shoot although not on our part of the estate.