a few questions in one here, re- .22 hv

[brandnewcombineharvester]

hi guys.

firstly hello all, nice forum.

 

now,i have a few questions for you fellas.

 

i have a 452 in .22 lr its fitted with a parker hale moderator, i have put about 2000 rounds through her in eley subsonic (fantastic grouping out to 100 yrds).

 

now, on the weekend i got my usual quota of subs from the shop, but i also bought some hollow point remington hyper veloicty rounds, i know i will have to re zero it, not a problem.

 

my two questions are..

 

1. will they bugger my mod up? should i remove it for these rounds?

 

2. what grouping am i to expect at 100 yrds with these?

 

 

many thanks .

[rem700]

hi ,ive shot high velocity .22 rf through my cz bruno with a ph mod with no probs

grouping wise it will depend on whether your barrel likes them or not

if i remember right they were 1in high at 65yds compared to the eley sub sonic

100 yds is a bit of a push with a .22rf especially on a LIVE target ,theres better small calibers out there for this distance

imo

[brandnewcombineharvester]

hi ,ive shot high velocity .22 rf through my cz bruno with a ph mod with no probs

grouping wise it will depend on whether your barrel likes them or not

if i remember right they were 1in high at 65yds compared to the eley sub sonic

100 yds is a bit of a push with a .22rf especially on a LIVE target ,theres better small calibers out there for this distance

imo

thats great rem, thanks for responding, i was just kind of pondering maybe zero in with subs at say 55 yrds and then see what the range would be with hypers to attain the same zero.

 

for example, bullseye at 55 with subs, and maybe 100 with the fast ones, this is just an example, but i feel after much experimenting a range could possibly be set for the two? if you get me?

 

once again, thanks.

[kent]

The best accuracy will be obtained with high quality subsonic even at 100yds though the trajectory will be more pronounced. The speed and pressure produced will not effect your moddy as its still within .22 lr spec, besides that .22 lr mods and .22 mag moddies are generally the same ie built to handle the bigger higher pressure mag round. The reason the best accuracy is produced with subsonic is they never pass through the sound barrier if HV travel supersonic they sure wont still be supersonic at 100yds and entering the transonic zone effects accuracy. My own .22 lr bolt action

will but the best ammo (sk in mine) into teeny weeny groups at 100 yds. With sufficient practice the only advantage to any HV round is kenetic energy IMO, not that relevant for most .22 lr work OR functioning in a more temperamental semi auto. Its nice to play with stuff though! Its amazing what these little guns are capable of in terms of accuracy past 100 yds

[brandnewcombineharvester]

The best accuracy will be obtained with high quality subsonic even at 100yds though the trajectory will be more pronounced. The speed and pressure produced will not effect your moddy as its still within .22 lr spec, besides that .22 lr mods and .22 mag moddies are generally the same ie built to handle the bigger higher pressure mag round. The reason the best accuracy is produced with subsonic is they never pass through the sound barrier if HV travel supersonic they sure wont still be supersonic at 100yds and entering the transonic zone effects accuracy. My own .22 lr bolt action

will but the best ammo (sk in mine) into teeny weeny groups at 100 yds. With sufficient practice the only advantage to any HV round is kenetic energy IMO, not that relevant for most .22 lr work OR functioning in a more temperamental semi auto. Its nice to play with stuff though! Its amazing what these little guns are capable of in terms of accuracy past 100 yds

thanks kent!

 

nice reply.

 

exactly my thoughts too.

 

you are quite right, its great fun to experiment.

i was just intrigued so as to see if a 'happy medium' range could be made between the two.

[gbal]

thanks kent!

 

nice reply.

 

exactly my thoughts too.

 

you are quite right, its great fun to experiment.

i was just intrigued so as to see if a 'happy medium' range could be made between the two.

I'm with kent,and you.The high velocity offer some extra energy you just don't need for most 22rf use,and the 'cost' is almost always less accuracy,and you do need as much accuracy as you can get.Hyper velocity is just more of the same.Fun yes,and maybe semi autos will need at least standard velocity,but the trade off just never made a lot of sense to me, even though 100y is a fair ways out for 22rf anyhow,unless you know the drop/drift and conditions are very good.Half the fun was 'stalkig' closer often,and there is no satisfaction at all in even one botched long shot.

george

[Andrew]

The pressures of 22 WMR and 22LR are exactly the same, FWIW. Additionally, "sub sonic" does not mean "lower pressure". I ran a raft of 22 Sub Sonics through a pressure gun last summer and pressures of some varieties were in the HV range, and some HV rounds had lower pressures than subs: A stark reminder that pressure and velocity are not joined in lock-step. Unlike my UK friends, I shoot sub sonics in a few rifles I have set up for them but shoot mostly HV loads. I have found sterling (sub MOA @ 100M) accuracy in many HV and some Hyper Velocity offerings from my ancient Brno. CCI Mini Mag is about the most consistent (on paper ) next to the Aguila Super Extra 40 Grain HV. Accuracy all depends on what your rifle likes.~Andrew

[kent]

The pressures of 22 WMR and 22LR are exactly the same, FWIW. Additionally, "sub sonic" does not mean "lower pressure". I ran a raft of 22 Sub Sonics through a pressure gun last summer and pressures of some varieties were in the HV range, and some HV rounds had lower pressures than subs: A stark reminder that pressure and velocity are not joined in lock-step. Unlike my UK friends, I shoot sub sonics in a few rifles I have set up for them but shoot mostly HV loads. I have found sterling (sub MOA @ 100M) accuracy in many HV and some Hyper Velocity offerings from my ancient Brno. CCI Mini Mag is about the most consistent (on paper ) next to the Aguila Super Extra 40 Grain HV. Accuracy all depends on what your rifle likes.~Andrew

That's interesting on the pressure front and something I didn't know. Obviously 99% of .22 lr field users over here use a moddy so it becomes more of a "no brainer" to use subs almost exclusively

[Andrew]

Kent: I have shot modrated .22's and really like them. I live in a wide open, sparsely populated state so noise is seldom an issue but flatter trajectory is desireable. I have some 40 grain ammo that will do 1480 fps with MOA accuracy. Devastating on game. That said, I have a 1-9" twist Ruger that I shoot 60 grain sub-sonics through and they kill small game easily!

 

Yes. The pressure issue is interesting. Many people automatically assume that pressure and velocity bear a direct relationship to each other and they most definitely do not.~Andrew

[baldie]

Life can be full of surprises.

 

Roger has a factory suppressed ruger 10/22 in the shop which has a 12" factory barrel, and a dirty great long full, over barrel moderator, with nothing in it but a muzzle support and an end cap which has a blast cone on the inside of it.

 

When you shoot mini mag through the gun, there is no supersonic signature with it.

 

Velocity of the minimag, but not the noise.

 

Go figure ?

 

Its ace.

[Andrew]

Neat.~Andrew

[brandnewcombineharvester]

well guys!

 

many thanks, an interesting topic.

 

just got in from a rather long target practice/zeroing in session down one of my permissions.

 

i would just like to say...........

 

 

those hyper velocity bad boys are maniacs. very anti social!

 

i have noted i am now getting a bulls eye every shot at 75 yrs with the eley subs, the hv's at the same distance are dead in line but 6" above the bull. (with a slightly wider grouping).

purely for educational purposes, on my next visit i shall stagger back some targets at say, 15 yrd intervals back from the 75 yrd subs target, until the hv's drop onto the bull.

 

i will post the results, it should be interesting as the place i use to zero is in a large valley with no wind at all.

 

cheers guys

[gbal]

well guys!

 

many thanks, an interesting topic.

 

just got in from a rather long target practice/zeroing in session down one of my permissions.

 

i would just like to say...........

 

 

those hyper velocity bad boys are maniacs. very anti social!

 

i have noted i am now getting a bulls eye every shot at 75 yrs with the eley subs, the hv's at the same distance are dead in line but 6" above the bull. (with a slightly wider grouping).

purely for educational purposes, on my next visit i shall stagger back some targets at say, 15 yrd intervals back from the 75 yrd subs target, until the hv's drop onto the bull.

 

i will post the results, it should be interesting as the place i use to zero is in a large valley with no wind at all.

 

cheers guys

It's a tough job,but someone should do it!

If you are 6" high at 75,I'd try 150 yards-assuming High V rather than Hyper V- depends a bit on rifle etc,then you can fill in the intermediary distances.Great to have no wind havoc conditions,and some reality check on 22rf accuracy at distance,if you can measure the groups/note the ammo brand.

george

[gbal]

well guys!

 

many thanks, an interesting topic.

 

just got in from a rather long target practice/zeroing in session down one of my permissions.

 

i would just like to say...........

 

 

those hyper velocity bad boys are maniacs. very anti social!

 

i have noted i am now getting a bulls eye every shot at 75 yrs with the eley subs, the hv's at the same distance are dead in line but 6" above the bull. (with a slightly wider grouping).

purely for educational purposes, on my next visit i shall stagger back some targets at say, 15 yrd intervals back from the 75 yrd subs target, until the hv's drop onto the bull.

 

i will post the results, it should be interesting as the place i use to zero is in a large valley with no wind at all.

 

cheers guys

Just some figures on the hypers etc-they buy speed by reducing bullet weight (down to 30/31g),but the cost is rather rapid velocity loss by, say ,100 yards .Compare:(muzzle/100 yrds)

 

Hyper: Aguila 30g 1700/1191 ; Fed 31 1430/1050 ;Stinger 32 1640/1066 ; Rem Viper 1410/1056

 

Hi Vel Mini mag 1260/1003 ;RWS 1310/990

 

Eley club 1085/941 ; Fed GM 1080/920

 

Sub Sonic CCI 1050/897; Eley 1065/900

 

So the gap is very much reduced by 100 yards:Of course the higher velocities have a little more energy -15%- (maybe 95 ft lbs/80 ft lbs) though that won't be a decisive difference on appropriate vermin at 100 yards,and they will be a bit less accurate (group a bit worse),and that isn't a good trade off-a miss does matter.

george

[brandnewcombineharvester]

george.

 

man!

 

i have read many of your posts.

 

how good are you!

 

fantastic data.

 

cheers.

 

you are writing here more or less what i am assuming will happen!

i do see the hv's are somewhat less heavy than the subs, hence the straighter trajectory, (and that awful 'crack') that combined with the higher power,will naturally give a straighter path.

even as a kid i remember the ole .177 air rifles being more accurate than the .22's ha!

it's going to be fascinating to witness the same zero at whatever range that may be with my rifle.

all said, i do understand that at approximately 100 mtrs the h/v's drop off as they go below supersonic.

..............

[Wabbitslayer]

I found rem yellowjackets didn't group well from my anshutz at 110 yards, nor did CCI stingers. CCI velocitors on the other hand are good and eley high velocity HP's were the best, spot on in fact. Unfortunately, eley stopped making them for some reason.