ejg223 Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 I'm in contact with a small German company who manufacture mainly hunting type copper or brass solid bullets. They are thinking of experimenting with long range target bullets. What do the experts on here think, can a solid outperform or come close to a lead/copper bullet? edi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 Lutz Moeller? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elwood Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 I'm anything but an expert! but I would have thought that if it could out perform a traditional lead core bullet then one of the US giants would have introduced one? But as you say it will be interesting to hear from someone with knowledge on the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brown dog Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 I'm anything but an expert! but I would have thought that if it could out perform a traditional lead core bullet then one of the US giants would have introduced one? I think they're just more expensive to make and less commercially viable en masse. The cheytac bullets were (from memory) CNC lathe turned solids. If expense is not a limiting factor, then I'd have thought solids could easily outperform lead core: 'simpler' to make and control consistency; no core positioning or jacket thickness issues, just a single lump of metal and a lathe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 The other consideration is that most ranges do not allow the use of solids...... Allegedly Ive used solids in my 338, its very very accurate with them, but equally spendy to buy them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejg223 Posted February 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 Thanks for the replies, no not Luetz.....wouldn't be to impressed by him. It is possible though that SAX had supplied KJG's to Luetz at some point. http://sax-munition.de/ Anyway of getting around the solids on the range problem without falling into the expanding level? Like designing them to break in two upon impact or similar. Sax will be at the IWA if anyone is going, Sax has a joint stand with STL-rifles another interesting fella who makes his own actions for his custom builds. edi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 Solids can be designed and machined to have much higher BCs than equivalent weight lead-core designs - that's the attraction to the ultra long-range target shooter or sniper. Their use has mostly been in larger calibres and cartridges to date - .338LM up to the 50s. They also take more punishment in the barrel than a conventional lead core job that might suffer from core melting or jacket separation under extreme pressures and temperarures in really heavily loaded cartridges in this category. Mike Baillie-Hamilton designed a bunch of heavy 30s though for .308 Win in Match Rifle and had a supply made up. They shot well at 1,000-1,200 at Bisley, but there were complaints from the markers of ricochets and the odd bullet bouncing back from the backstop to the target pits, so the NRA Techical Committee looked at the issue and evidence and banned them at Bisley. There are those who saw a 'conspiracy' at work and the bullets were banned not because they were unsafe, but because they were too good compared to a £0.35 Sierra MatchKing. I've no idea what the real driver for the Bisley ban was. Anyway, that was before the range danger area length / high ME / high BC issue arose. The MoD's concern over very long-range ammunition has not made the case for such bullets on 'ordinary' ranges any easier I would imagine! I don't suppose it would be an issue for ranges like Warcop that already allow .338LM and bigger. Mike showed me the bullets last year and they really were long and streamlined, very impressive looking. He'd had them costed and if made in bulk would have seen prices drop to maybe around £1 each while he'd paid "rather more". That's the other downside of machined solids - cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desparado Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 Hi Edi, As others have commented, solids are not allowed on MOD ranges now, so that pretty much restricts UK users to private ranges and private land. Of course the rest of the world is unaffected and continues to research and develop the application of solids. The research that was done into them prior to the ban indicated some designs were superior in every respect and if we had been able to persevere with the projects, would have made lead jacketed bullets redundant in competition... FWIW, shortly I intend to dispose of limited supplies of solids in 7mm and 6.5mm - by Lost River Ballistics - what remains of other, much earlier projects. Cheers, "desparado". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elwood Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 Mike showed me the bullets last year and they really were long and streamlined, very impressive looking. He'd had them costed and if made in bulk would have seen prices drop to maybe around £1 each while he'd paid "rather more". That's the other downside of machined solids - cost. Slightly cheaper than the Berger 7mm VLD's then (tongue firmly in cheek) What's stopping the US shooters from shooting them in competitions? I'm pretty sure they would try and gain every advantage possible unless of course they are banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejg223 Posted February 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 Thanks for the replies and thoughts. If there are any samples that need testing I'll shout....they'd be wasted with me... Des nice to have you on here. edi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 Ahhhhh, the saga of solids and the ban, what a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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