TonyH Posted April 13, 2011 Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 On the always relevant varminting topic of whether to hold over at long range, or dial-in one's scope, there's a brief but interesting discussion on yesterday's forum at the 6mmBR.com site. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6.5shooter Posted April 13, 2011 Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 Im mainly a dialler unless I want a quock shot at foxy but funny you should bring this topic up Tony because I was thonking of posting something silimar for windage. Dial or hold off? Garry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyH Posted April 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 Im mainly a dialler unless I want a quock shot at foxy but funny you should bring this topic up Tony because I was thonking of posting something silimar for windage. Dial or hold off? Garry Good question Garry. These days I'm a confirmed dialler for elevation (used to try holding over, with very mixed success) but am a bit reluctant to get into dialling the wind; I mean, surely just as dialling up requires precise distance measurement with a laser (otherwise you're just guessing, so might just as well hold over), so dialling for windage must require routine use of an anemometer - ? I haven't got one and am reluctant to spend cash on yet another gadget to lug around, making the setup for each shot even more fraught than at present.... Went out briefly yesterday morning, took two shots and missed both - a rabbit at 260 and a pigeon at 335, confident about the distance and my clicks but there was a very slight breeze which I don't think I allowed for properly. Have I really got to get a sodding anemometer? Ohhhh..... Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6.5shooter Posted April 13, 2011 Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 Tony, I read the discussion on accurate shooter and I seem to do what most people on there do aswell, i tend to hold over for short distances say 200-250 yards with my flatter shooting rifles like my 223 and my swift. After that its all dialled in. As for wind compensation, unless you are an extremely highly skilled field shooter who can read the wind by watching the grass, leaves, trees etc and mirage through binos you are pretty much guestimating the wind for each shot and an anemometer is prety much essential for me anyway as I am not as highly skilled in that department as some. Even wind at the target can vary to the shooters position so if you depend solely on an anemometer you are still pretty much screwed if you cant distinguish wind signs at the target. I find myself compensating for the wind lately by holding off and it has proven successful so far but i do diall aswell. Just depends on what mood I am in really. I think timing of the shot is essential because if you dial and by the time you get to take the shot maybe 5-10 seconds later the wind can change again so you need to be concentrating no end before you take the shot. I find holding off is a bit quicker aslong as you know youre reticle inside out. Like you Tony I am interested in hearing from others on what their procedure is. Garry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldon Posted April 13, 2011 Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 A wind anenometer is only good to a point tony so maybe you will be able to save your money..... but then again If you bought one, then you could predict the wind more often and then check your findings to build up your knowledge base Thats what i do anyway.... I've still got a long way to go. Example on the above, couple of weeks back shooting at 400 yards with 308. Felt confident with dialled in drops getting me on the paper. Couldn't see the 4 shots (holes) I had just fired due to mirage so walked 400 yards there and 400 yards back (i.e. half a mile ) to find I wasn't hitting the paper ummmm! Tried again and guess what...... yep same result now having walked a mile for nothing I needed a rethink. The wind at the firing point was very slight. The wind at the target was similar. So I checked it with the windmeter and it said 0 - 2 mph. Ok so i was doing good. Thought I had lost my base zero but wasn't convinced so went to 200 yards in the middle of the field with the meter and found it was gusting now and again to 9 mph. I had been travelling down a sheltered hedge side rather than walk through the middle of the field Fired again with a nominal 1 moa of correction... agh now we are on paper, tweaked it to 1.5 moa and all good to go. Without the xplorer 4 tool i would have been arsing around rechecking zero's yet with this the answer soon became obvious.. ... go on get yourself one you can't have too many toys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabbit fingers Posted April 13, 2011 Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 Personally I dial elevation and average windage from the position I'm shooting from. Then adjust on the reticule as and when conditions change. I struggled with windage for years almost always missing left or right of the target. Bought a kestral and it's helped no end. As previously said, it can't tell you what's happening mid range but at least you have a reading as a starting point instead of a wild guess. Long range shooting without a kestral or similar is a bit like going without the range finder, can be done but makes the job a whole lot easier if you have them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyH Posted April 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 A wind anenometer is only good to a point tony so maybe you will be able to save your money..... but then again If you bought one, then you could predict the wind more often and then check your findings to build up your knowledge base..................................[snip]............. Without the xplorer 4 tool i would have been arsing around rechecking zero's yet with this the answer soon became obvious..... go on get yourself one you can't have too many toys Yes, well, I've been buying toys all my life! Gadgets are addictive, but if I'd invested all the cash spent on gadgets - in, say, Microsoft stock - I'd be a damn sight better off. I'm sure you're right though. I remember very clearly how educational it was to get my first laser rangefinder, in 1996 - original Bushnell Lytespeed: it immediately showed me why i'd been missing rabbits in certain spots that I'd previously tried to estimate by blowing up maps on a photocopier and measuring very carefully, since I was anything up to 30-40 yards out! I've heard of the Explorer 4 - something you'd recommend? Cripes, I get a few quid ahead (difficult when you have several recreations & hobbies) then something else comes along that I need... Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6.5shooter Posted April 13, 2011 Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 Tony, If you are interested I have got an ADC anemometer for sale as I just bought a. Ew one to give me barometric pressure readings etc. Its as new and would sell for £30. If youre interested give me a shout. Garry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gandy Posted April 13, 2011 Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 I'm very much a novice but I dial for elevation and hold off for wind, I find its easier to correct quickly if you can follow up. Just me? I have a kestrel and its helped no end, I was 15 yards off breaking the 400 yesterday, gutted to say the least but getting closer all the time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilishdave Posted April 13, 2011 Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 If the reticle is in the second plane best to dial because it is only a mater of time before you forget to check it is on the right mag for hold over or the mental arithmatic you will have to do at differant ranges is a little beyond me when all I want to be thinking about is the marksmanship principals. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldon Posted April 14, 2011 Report Share Posted April 14, 2011 As Dave has said a zoom scope in second plane would be very complicated for mil dot hold offs etc. A fixed mag would be a lot easier. Never really got on with holding off and using the reticle, far better IMHO dialling as long as you have a rangefinder. Dialling without ain't a lot of good otherwise Tony, the xplorer 4 does it all and they are available on ebay around £50. A bit awkward to start with as they only have one button which sounds good for the technophobe like me but it would be easier if they had more. Once you get your head round it a nice easy gadget that has been reliable so far. There is other xplorers (1.2.3 + 4 I think) but make sure the one you get has barometric pressure as some of the lesser models don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyH Posted April 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2011 ...Tony, the xplorer 4 does it all and they are available on ebay around £50. A bit awkward to start with as they only have one button which sounds good for the technophobe like me but it would be easier if they had more. Once you get your head round it a nice easy gadget that has been reliable so far. There is other xplorers (1.2.3 + 4 I think) but make sure the one you get has barometric pressure as some of the lesser models don't. Thanks - just posted a query about pressure on that previous thread "which anemometer" before I saw this! Yes, I've seen all those Skywatch Xplorers on ebay, but the basic Model 1 can be had for not much more than 20 squids - so how important is pressure at the modest distances (300 - 500 yards) I'm interested in achieving currently.... Regards, Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brown dog Posted April 14, 2011 Report Share Posted April 14, 2011 Thanks - just posted a query about pressure on that previous thread "which anemometer" before I saw this! Yes, I've seen all those Skywatch Xplorers on ebay, but the basic Model 1 can be had for not much more than 20 squids - so how important is pressure at the modest distances (300 - 500 yards) I'm interested in achieving currently.... Regards, Tony In UK, atmospheric pressure changes won't have a significant effect below about 400-450m. Beyond that you start to get into 'add clicks, subtract clicks' territory. Sounds like you're at the crossover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyH Posted April 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2011 In UK, atmospheric pressure changes won't have a significant effect below about 400-450m. Beyond that you start to get into 'add clicks, subtract clicks' territory. Sounds like you're at the crossover As I thought, then. 'Ere, you're not accusing me of being transgendered, I trust? Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brown dog Posted April 14, 2011 Report Share Posted April 14, 2011 As I thought, then. 'Ere, you're not accusing me of being transgendered, I trust? Tony Toni? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted April 15, 2011 Report Share Posted April 15, 2011 I shoot a slew of prairiedogs evey year, winter and summer, with a CZ 22 Hornet out to 250 yards. I have a fixed 6X Schmidt and Bender scope and hold over (or under, as the case dictates) for every shot. I don't miss too much any more, and when I do, it's usually the wind that eats my shot. So put me down for as a Hold over guy.~Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyH Posted April 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2011 I shoot a slew of prairiedogs evey year, winter and summer, with a CZ 22 Hornet out to 250 yards. I have a fixed 6X Schmidt and Bender scope and hold over (or under, as the case dictates) for every shot. I don't miss too much any more, and when I do, it's usually the wind that eats my shot. So put me down for as a Hold over guy.~Andrew At that kind of range with that calibre it makes sense, Andrew. I'd do the same. With my .22 rimfire I use a fixed-power 4x scope that has a custom twin-dot reticle, and if one of the dots doesn't apply (they're around 50 and 80 yards) I hold over. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted April 15, 2011 Report Share Posted April 15, 2011 At that kind of range with that calibre it makes sense, Andrew. I'd do the same. With my .22 rimfire I use a fixed-power 4x scope that has a custom twin-dot reticle, and if one of the dots doesn't apply (they're around 50 and 80 yards) I hold over. Tony I'll tell you the truth, I don't have adjustable turrets on any of my varmint rifles. I hold over on all of them. The Hornet is the extreme example as I shoot regularly out to 250 but stretch that to 300 every once in a while...(where the wind gods rule!) I enjoy learning and using the trajectories of my rounds tho, admittedly, if I misjudge, there is no harm. I shoot out in the boonies with no one around to bounce a miss into, and if I do miss it's no big deal. There are always more prairiedogs, unfortunately.~Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycidon Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 Usually dial in daytime. At night when distances tend to be closer and wind less I aim off unless its a hell of a long way and I have pinged it, very rare to dial at night though. I have seen wind flags on a 100yard range show 180 degree difference in wind direction. Wind direction at the butts was opposite the wind direction at the bench. A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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