1forthepot Posted November 27, 2010 Report Share Posted November 27, 2010 Hello all, What the problem is say when i resize 50 cases and prep and prime why am i getting maybe 5 or 6 cases where the bullets just fall straight into the case. The cases are made by lapua in 308 they where bought new and shot once i have also found this problem with the 6.5x55 same make brass but on this caliber some times the bullets are tight in the case or there a loose ish. where am i going wrong ?? regards chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1967spud Posted November 27, 2010 Report Share Posted November 27, 2010 give us the measurements please for these outside neck off a loaded round ? case wall thickness ? the bushing size you are using ? The outside neck measurement off a fired round ? the out side neck measurement of a resized but not loaded round ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6mmBR Posted November 27, 2010 Report Share Posted November 27, 2010 By any chance your not using a Lee collet die? Or Redding bushing dies and not put a bushing in? Cheers Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1forthepot Posted November 27, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2010 no i am using rcbs competion dies what can cause this is it me ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brown dog Posted November 27, 2010 Report Share Posted November 27, 2010 no i am using rcbs competion dies what can cause this is it me ??? Not familiar with those dies, but in the same vein as Dave's question, what neck bushing size are you using? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finman Posted November 27, 2010 Report Share Posted November 27, 2010 I've had this happen to me a couple of times, on the 7x57 Norma cases and the 6.5x55 Lapua cases. Nothing I did, it was as they came out of the box. Might it be that you have had a couple of duff ones from new? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1forthepot Posted November 27, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2010 Not familiar with those dies, but in the same vein as Dave's question, what neck bushing size are you using? these dies dont have a neck bushing have a look on midway uk. regards chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratwhiskers Posted November 30, 2010 Report Share Posted November 30, 2010 Chris. Prep' your brass as normal and then mark the neck with a cd (permenant) type marker pen. Run the cases back through the die again the let us know what you see. With standard body dies (non bushing or awt silly) and minimal neck thickness you should still get enough tension to hold the bullet to some degree. D. .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1forthepot Posted November 30, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2010 cheers old boy.will do that tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onehole Posted November 30, 2010 Report Share Posted November 30, 2010 A slight twist here and a little off topic butfrom a personal experience with two batch,s of 308 lapua brass I don,t doubt your problems!!!I have had to do two!! pass,s of my neck turner just to clean up and get an acceptable runout.The first pass showed up a huge high spot and regularly stopped the cutter in its tracks. It may well be that in your case some very undersized brass is in your lot? I have always thought a tight or minimum spec chamber/neck and to neck turn was the way to go if you want to screw the very best out of your shooting and these problems with brass lately have cemented that home with me now for good and is in my opinion definately worth doing even for a factory rifle these days as their chambers are probably pretty good so why feed it wobbly ammo especially if you are going to the trouble of making it in the first place.An accurate rifle is indeed a sum of ALL of its parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1forthepot Posted November 30, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2010 right dave i have put them through the sizer with the marker and the 1 where the bullet head falls into is 0.005 bigger than the normal one .there was hardly any marking on the cases as they had been sized before. dave i tuck the measurement with a dial caliper does this sound right. regards chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratwhiskers Posted December 5, 2010 Report Share Posted December 5, 2010 Chris. Sorry for late reply mate, was away from pooter for a few days so please bare with me. Having kicked the problem around in my head for a few days (there's a lot of unfilled space in there, so it didn't always hit the sides) I came up with several potential theories to your problems Having run it through the die again, is it still not holding the bullet? Most chambers run at about 2 thou a side for clearance, so does that case chamber ok (being as you state, 5thou over)? And finaly, I'd like to take a good look at the case('s) in question, as having run countless numbers of cases through several makes of dies I'm at a bit of an honest loss as to why you're getting this issue. Will see you on the range sometime and we'll kick this about some more..... Just another thought, put a piece of insulating tape on the base of the case and see if it chambers. This is a quick way of telling if you're over sizing your brass (nothing to do with the above, but only trying to help with your die set-up) and adding excessive headspace to the mix. Onehole. I don't doubt your thoughts that there is some odd brass out there from time to time, I've seen odd stuff turn up in boxes now and then. My only issues with neck turning are to do with the fact that I've seen tight necks and turned brass rendered redundant when the wind and dust picks up. In BR I'd go the same way to reduce as many variable as possible, but for field work I'd worry about more prominant things first. Regards. D. .... D. .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londonhunter Posted December 5, 2010 Report Share Posted December 5, 2010 Chris Very similar situation happened to me before I bought a new box of lapua case from sportsman in dorchester some months ago and when I can to reload I encounter the same situaion By chnace I reviisted sportsman and spoke to emma there and she confirmed that the box I bough have been around for many months on the shelf and recall they had an accident when 03 boxes fell off the shelve and since they are THEN paper boxes different batch were mixed. What I am saying is that different batches of lapua cases have slightly different dimension. I experience that with 6.5 x 55 cases bought over a period of 3 years. When you take a close look they are different but enough to cause an issue when you mix them So is there a chnace your were mixed ? Where did you buy them from ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varmartin Posted December 5, 2010 Report Share Posted December 5, 2010 If you are running the same .cal brass through the same dies and one or some of them don't grip the bullet ...it can only be one thing....the lot of brass that wont grip the bullet has thinner neck wall dimension. As its the out side of the neck thats sized check with calipers the inside dimention..it will be bigger than the outside of the bullet ... Of cause this is only if all your bullets are of the exact same size ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1forthepot Posted December 5, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2010 when i did the measurement it was internal but they where near externally and i have had this problem with 308 and 6.5 and both where bought hannams,if this is the case with quality control on lapua cases why are these meant to be the best ??? as they are certainly not cheap. regards all chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varmartin Posted December 6, 2010 Report Share Posted December 6, 2010 Never seen such poor quality in any of the lapua brass i have purchased ... The odd dinged neck..thats about it.. Sounds like someone neck turned a few and bunged them back in the box for resale ....but how could that ever happen ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1forthepot Posted December 6, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2010 Never seen such poor quality in any of the lapua brass i have purchased ... The odd dinged neck..thats about it.. Sounds like someone neck turned a few and bunged them back in the box for resale ....but how could that ever happen ?? i was using berger 155 vld`s chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onehole Posted December 6, 2010 Report Share Posted December 6, 2010 Again slightly off topic but bought two boxes of Sierra MK,s 135g 308 heads just to play with.The two boxes ran immediately in line with regard serial/batch numbers and guess what both boxes had two distinctly different heads with regard to base to ogive.The difference was 5 thou between the two,not a lot some may say but 5 thou is 5 thou and is lot when homeloading is all about loading the best ammo possible. The real problem is that this sort of thing is being discovered quite a lot and poor quality/control in brass as well.Its no wonder some shooters out there may be chasing flyers etc etc you really do have to be pretty anal and take a very close look at all the components and not assuming a supposedly good brand is gonna be spot on. Ratswhiskers: I agree,conditions can and will mess it all up doh!!but I cant understand or accept why some of these production tolerances or errors are finding their way into our exacting sport.Why for example should I have had to trim off nearly two thou from the necks of a recent batch of Lapua 308 cases to get em to spec up.doh!!cheers Onehole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratwhiskers Posted December 15, 2010 Report Share Posted December 15, 2010 Onehole. Sorry for the late reply (been doing things away from pooter for a while)the only other thing l should have said was to pull out the expander ball and just run the cases and see if they then hold a bullet. lf so then it may be that as you say tolerances are close between the case neck and where the die/expander sizes them. l've run countless batches of brass and as yet not come across this issue (no doubt it may crop up in the future). Regards. Ratty. .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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