Catch-22

.22BR is basically the same thing.

Thanks for the clarity on the 6PPC Vince.👍

Never having owned one, I couldn’t say for sure, but my comments were based on what I’ve read in various places over the years. Always learning!

Yeah, don’t bother. The hassle and cost will far outweigh anything positive about the cartridge.

As Baldie and I said, either get yourself a 6PPC (probably most accurate cartridge ever but beware, can be a pain in the butt to get shooting...very finicky by all accounts) or simply use the 6mmBR, an option for any rifle with a  .308w sized bolt head. There is almost nothing in it between all these cartridges. But as the 6mmBR is such a proven winner...and will be infinitely cheaper to get setup than going the totally custom route of 6mmARC...that to me is the no-brainer option.

Doubt there will be any significant market here in the UK.

Tbh, unless you’re running an AR15 and want something with more punch/distance than the standard 5.56/223, want better ballistics than the 6.8 and don’t want to go up to the big brother AR10 in 7.62/308, then I can’t see the value of the 6mmARC (or is that Robert Whitley’s 6mmAR...which Hornady essentially nicked).

With an AR15, all you need is a Grendel sized bolt, use AR15 Grendel mags and 6mmARC barrel.

However in a bolt gun, why bother? You‘ll need to source the smaller (and non common) PPC bolt, something that’s not a common component or even an option for most action manufacturers.

Just shoot the 6mmBR, 6x47, 6Dasher etc...

Currently use the Leica CRF 2700-B. Nice bit of kit, though as with most LRFs you ideally need a little stand or rest to get best results when ranging out to extreme distance.

https://en.leica-camera.com/World-of-Leica/Leica-News/Global/2017/Leica-Rangemaster-CRF-2700-B

For me, when just cleaning the carbon I will run a patch of CorrosionX through the bore when the rifle goes into storage. CorrosionX is an excellent proven rust inhibitor.

Pulling out of storage, I dry patch the bore to remove the CorrosionX, then use a HbN & 99% Isopropyl alcohol soaked patch to swan the bore and leave to evaporate 30mins-1hr before my shoot.

With the above, my first shots are always in the same place as the next as long as I do my part. I do definitely agree with the point about being warmed up ahead of shooting.

2 hours ago, RAW said:

Thanks catch -22 will take a look at this, cheers

 

Okay I have heard about the belted magnum so maybe rule of 7mm rem magnum, I will take a look at the SAUM though. I quite like the look of chassis just simple and effective, I have my hunting rifles in mcmillan stocks so nice to have a change with the chassis easier to dry out and clean if get soaked.

Nothing wrong with a belted Magnum...if done right. Traditionally the belt was there for head spacing, but modern reamer designs that use belted Magnum cases (like Nathan’s 7mm Practical) now headspace off the datum line on the shoulder, like any modern case. So no issues at all.

I like the big magnums, owning a .338 Norma Magnum myself. They’re great fun. But beware the big cases that shoot a 7mm or 30cal bullet, they will strip your barrel out in a very short time. If you shoot 100 rounds over the course of a day at the range, bank on going to the range only 10 or 15 times before it’s off for a rebarrel! Several years ago I decided not to go the 300NM route but stick with the .338NM parent case. I should be good for at least 3000 rounds, roughly double that of the 300NM. 

Take a look at the 7mm Practical, designed by Nathan Foster.

https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/7mm+Practical.html

Just about the limit of effective/efficient case to bore ratio.

Cases formed from .300wm, reamers through Mason. Reach out to Nathan on his forum, he’s a really nice guy and is happy to help in any way!

4 hours ago, simgre said:

I’ll take the 77gn SMKs 

Bugger 😭

Sporting goods. No issues!

Interesting reading - I wonder if there are some geographical variables involved in people’s experiences.

I think most, if not all, courier/delivery services have poor customer service - likely because they don’t believe in the importance of it because the market for cheap shipping is fierce and there’s a necessity to the service itself, not necessarily the process.

I used MyHermes a lot in the past before I did have a package go missing a few years ago, so didn’t use them for a while. Then necessity forced my hand and tried MyHermes again. They’ve been fine for me for the last year or so.

RoyalMail isn’t cheap but is ok. Agreed parcelforce isn’t great.

Ive had mixed results with DPD, fine for U.K. stuff but several items coming from Germany, Austria and Holland were very delayed and the tracking seemed to be completely up the spout. 

Now SOLD, with thanks for such a speedy process!

Cheers

7 minutes ago, MichalS said:

Those are some fine groups!  300 Norma Mag seems a great calibre, the lack of factory rifles stopped me from getting one. Mine 338LM just came in CZ for scale, it's "substantial"

Thanks - though for clarity I’m shooting the .338 Norma Magnum with 300gn Lapua Scenars.

Nice gun. What action is that sitting in the MDT?

.338NM - 100m during OCW and barrel break in. Both are 5 round groups;

Subsequently, I shot our clubs smallest ever 3x round HME group at 200m - all inside a 5p piece, cold bore, no sighters.

You’re welcome 👍

I only got my info from reading around lots of various forums and a bit of trial and error.

I definitely think the most important things to bear in mind are;

1. Ensure bullets are clean prior to coating (no  fingerprint grease etc)

2. Heat the bullets up to help with impact plating

3. Don’t use too much HbN...use very little, less than you think

4. Don’t load too many bullets into your jar of BBs. In a 500ml plastic tub (I use a Tupperware screw top jar) I have about 250BBs and about 50 to 100 6.5mm bullets at any one time. Too many bullets in the jar and you’ll hinder the impact plating

5. Tumble the bullets for a good 3-4hrs then check. Bullets should have very little ‘clumpy’ residue - a nice thin even layer is what you want. If the bullets lack an even coating, stick them back in the tumbler for another hour.

6. Be very careful with the HbN. Nano particles are able to penetrate the skin. I use a screw top lid and then cover the join with gaffer tape to stop any leak when in the tumbler. Don’t inhale (best use a mask) when opening jar and sifting BBs from bullets.

7. Polish the newly coated bullets before seating - polishing makes them slippery as F!

8. You don’t need to strip clean the bore after every shoot. I simply push a patch through to get the carbon out. Patch 2 or 3 should be relatively clear. I don’t re-swab the bore before the next shoot - just go shoot. But I will do a deep clean after 300 rounds or so. Definitely re-swab the bore ahead of the next shoot.

Howard Leight / Impact Sports electronic ear defenders.

Bought new from Amazon last year.

Almost perfect condition, shows only very minor signs of light use.

Flawless operation. I’m only selling as I’ve recently treated myself to some MSA Sordin’s.

£SOLD!

Oh, one trick to know if you’re coating the bullets correctly is to see how much HbN residue is left in the tub after tumbling. If there’s surplus powder then you’ve put too much in.

I’ve also found that if you’ve used too much HbN, the bullets actually dont get an even coat and the bullets don’t feel particularly slippery. Lower the amount of HbN (as stated before - only the tip of a screwdriver is needed) and the bullets get a good deep coating.

When done right, give the bullets a gentle polish in a towel to remove excess (don’t worry - the pores of the jacket are impregnated with the HbN and it won’t wipe off completely) and the bullets take on a ‘frosted’ look and are slippery as hell.

Here’s a .338 Norma Magnum loaded with 300g Lapua Scenar coated with HbN - you can see the slight frosting but I can assure you the whole bullet is evenly coated is a very very slippery;

I bought from small retailers in the US because the UK stockists only do bulk industrial quantity. A small 1oz tub is probably enough to coat about 40,000-50,000 6.5mm bullets - a little goes a very long way. 

Note there are many different grades of HbN, with ultra fine 0.5U being the best for coating bullets (gets into the small pores of the jacket).
 

There’s actually a good retailer on eBay that I believe several here have bought from, including myself;

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F124111016193

Nice - having the big brother (RTM upper with both RTM and RTS lowers) I can attest to the quality of Gary’s tube gun chassis. Extremely well made and solid!

Interesting choice of stock. Does the cheek rise on it? Must confess the original stock is great for its adjustability, even if it looks a little scaffold tube-esque 😂

I too use HbN, both on bullets and swabbing in the bore, and think it’s very good stuff.

Calibre's used is 6.5x47 and my .338NM, but plan to coat .223 in the future too.

Whilst it’s ideal to start a new barrel with HbN from the start, if you’ve used naked bullets previously, just ensure the bore is spotless less clean (no copper) prior to shooting HbN because you want that ceramic coating to be applied to the barrel, not the copper.

Im unsure about neck tension as I’ve never compared before or after coating, but you could give it a try.

Generally HbN loads require at least a full grain, if not more, to duplicate naked loads. For the barrels I use HbN in, I can’t say if the harmonic node is different as I’d never developed a naked load in them and compared. But for previous rifles in same calibres, I find accuracy nodes are very similar. For example, a past Rifle in 6.5x47, shooting same powder (N140), primer (Murom KVB-223m) and bullet (123gn Lap Scenar), same dies (Whidden) had a very good node at 2940ps with low ES/SD. My new rifle with same components as above but HbN has its accuracy node around 2930fps.

With HbN I can push that load waaay higher, but I have no need to. I get zero pressure signs. The previous rifle with naked bullets was very close to the very upper limit.

I would say my cold bore shots, after cleaning the barrel after 2-300 rounds, are a lot more consistent. When cleaning, I strip everything out then re-swab the bore, I find I no longer need to foul the barrel like I had to.

The one thing I dislike about coating bullets is just the time it can take. I wash my bullets with hot water and fairy liquid. Once dry, put in the oven at 90-100degrees for 10-15mins, then into a screw top Tupperware canister with steel BBs and a screwdriver tip of HbN. Tumble for 4-5hrs. Then sift BBs from bullets. I try to do around 200 bullet batches, but it can be a little boring. 
Making a bore solution is easy. Small plastic bottle with 99% isopropyl alcohol and enough HbN so that it’s same consistency as whole milk. Before leaving for the range, I stick a patch that’s been dipped in the HbN slurry, down the bore a couple of times. The alcohol will evaporate within 30mins and will leave behind a white deposit of HbN. That coupled with the coated bullet will burnish the bore nicely.

Apologies, as per what was previously pointed out to me, I should have been clearer about pressure - not velocity per se.

And yes you’re right, bullet fit to bore is key. 

Dave/Baldie - does AI UK use the Sassen Cut Barrels as standard on their factory built guns? Or are the Sassen’s only used as ‘aftermarket’ barrels?

Yes to large pistol primers.

Unsure about Bullseye as I’ve never used it before.

Bear in mind that with lead you can’t push the velocity too hard because you’ll get serious leading in the barrel. I normally try to duplicate a cowboy action load. Zero recoil and just tonnes of fun. 0.5kg of powder makes up around 400 rounds, so cheap feeding. 

I’d say Unique, RS20, Viht N330, N340 and possibly Vhit N32C are good for this application. They err on the side of a .44spl load and are just about right with a lead bullet. 

Slower powders, like Viht N105 and N110 are good if wanting to shoot full power .44mag loads with copper bullets. Just don’t shoot lead with them.

One thing to bear in mind with pistol powders is how a minute amount of powder can make a massive difference. They burn fast and can spike quickly, so make your test loads up in 0.1 to 0.2gn increments. And always double check you’ve not thrown a double charge. Rifle powders give much better case to fill ratio, making it harder to double throw. But pistol powders seldom fill the case up (especially if using the fast powders), so make sure you double check as it’s easy to have a nasty surprise.

Best of luck!

Depends if you want to shoot full power with copper bullets or mild cowboy type loads shooting lead.

I like to shoot a mild(ish) load of hard cast lead in my .44mag Rossi underleaver. Great accurate fun out 50yds or so but 100yds is like shooting a mortar...still fun none the less!

Most accurate load I’ve found is 10.8gn of Viht N340 with the 240gn Lead RNFP. Starline brass, Murom Large Pistol Primers.

I get bulk boxes from Shell House Bullet Company. Great people to deal with. These are the 240gn RNFP bullets I use;

https://www.shellhousebulletcompany.com/new-products/240gr-44-rnfp-sized-to-430432

My past experience is that the VLDs can do very well if jumped a lot. Thorough research posted on the PRB Blog confirms as such and gives good details about jump.