Bangbangman

Is it Gen 1 or 2?

13 hours ago, Mat said:

300prc so it'll be f open

Judging by past scores (or lack of) it doesn't appear to be popular, I'm guessing because it's not a 'normal' distance. It's a shame because there aren't that many opportunities to shoot 1100/1200.

Did you have to do all the HME stuff?

My 300PRC load is well over the Bisley HME limit. I haven't used it at Bisley but the HME procedure sounds a bit tedious/laborious.

And this one:

Yep. All the time recently. 

This weekend I re zero'd my Bergara B14R (MDT LSS XL chassis) as I'd put a new scope on it, ahead of a world championship qualifier match 11/12th March.

In no wind it shot the best 5 shot groups it's ever done at my local 51m and 100m range. These aren't "average" groups.

I shot a 10shot group at 100m but the wind had picked up and was swirling around the quarry range.

On a good day, this rifle/ammo/shooter combo can achieve 1/2MOA at 100m but it is not typical/reliable performance. 1MOA is pretty reliable (centre-centre), if I read the wind right. 

I previously shot Team and Tenex out to 262m (they, and Match, are the same thing, only differentiated into subtype by batch testing at Eley):

These groups are more typical:

I really enjoyed the match, particularly day one, getting my first "clean" on PRS skills stage and a good score on the tricky trailer stage.

Day 2 was fun but marred by two mag failures, a loose butt (snigger) and then a trigger failure.

Awesome squad-mates lent me rifles to finish the day (Thanks Ryan C and Joe P!) but Saturday's dream of a PB result were truly dashed (PW achieved!)

Wish I could make the next one in April but I'm not free so I'll have to wait until June.

Great match and venue.

Fantastic firearm. Mine still amazes me with its accuracy and build quality.

1 hour ago, tackb said:

Don’t care! 
 

my calibres are not listed

Not this time...

Now SOLD

SOLD

Unopened box of 500 Sierra .20cal (204) 39gr Blitzking for sale: 

£190 including postage to UK mainland.

55 minutes ago, fourtyvoats said:

The smallest is 1/2 the size of the largest. Any idea why?

 

Read up on statistics in shooting (or watch vids.) It may be illuminating.

Not meant to be sarcastic, BTW!

22 minutes ago, Ronin said:

The extreme version of SIS held last year was probably the most fun competition I’ve attended outside the Czech and Slovakian military comps 

That could be used as a bench mark to create something in the UK that would appeal to all

 

im not sure there are any professional competition shooters over here - solely employed to shoot - the pond here is tiny compared to the USA where there are - the recent comps attended by the “top” Uk shooters in the states has I think put things into perspective bringing a few “back to earth”

The UK has only 150 thousand firearm certificate holders - of those maybe one percent or less attend steep plate matches 

From my own perspective there has been a reduction in attendance to matches in the last two years for a variety of reasons (cost, in fighting, loss of interest, etc ) 

There is reduced chat on forums about match attendance - another indicator of waining interest 

 

Time for things to be shaken up and changed to something that appeals to more people rather than the few 

create something that can grow and involve more people 

 

I'd also welcome variety, though I think the PRS format allows for this, to an extent. I've never had to design a CoF so I may be underestimating the challenges.

You might enjoy the upcoming "Extreme" match at ProShoot. I think it may a three gunmatch but involves a physical element (belly crawl under wire, aerial runway etc have been mentioned.)

I think the endurance element in the hike-and-shoot might put off as many people as it attracts, though I'm keen to try this type of shoot.

You can't please all the people all of the time and I think the PRS matches are well attended, with new shooters turning up and enjoying themselves.

Personally, I don't have the time and monet to practice and get compete with the top guns but I enjoy the challenge and it's certainly improved my field shooting for quarry. 

PR22/NRL22UK comps are an easy and cheap way into the sport, which will hopefully  expand to include more venues, given the smaller facilities required.

Different CoF for "pros" and "amateurs" could be a logistical nightmare as the stages are run at a pace to get everyone through and minimise standing around. If the stage time limit was the only difference on it could work, but a but of a headache for the RO. 
 

The small and big gong idea has been tried (shooter had to nominate size before starting, and stick with it: double points for the small gong.) However, doubling the number of targets increases cost, set up time and complexity. Possible, though. 
 

Factory class goes some way toward reducing the arms-race effect of open class. Similarly "limited" (223/308) class. I think Hunter class would be a good idea; I used to use my 308Win Stalking rifle for PRS type shooting and had great fun despite needing to do a mag change on every stage. 

As someone said above, Tom Rice won (I think) with a factory Tikka not that long ago, so I'd encourage anyone interested in PRS to try it with what they've got, before building a dedicated rifle.

Kit like bags/tripods etc is freely lent on the firing point, so again, don't buy stuff before you've tried it.

I'd certainly welcome cheaper matches and more venues. 

18 minutes ago, Dellboy said:

https://www.c2precision.co.uk/product/c2-barrel-tuner/ 

THESE ?  there not a mod are they ? 

True, but they do seem to dramatically reduce the sound levels. 

C2Precision do a rimfire tuner mod. It's more expensive than a normal rimfire mod but well short of £600 !

It’s a good price- I pointed some one from FullboreUK forum this way. I already have the GSBL (same rifle but laminate is painted green and stainless has a black ferro-nitride treatment) otherwise I’d have been tempted.

You'll be fine with the 147s. 
 

Don't forget about PR22: cheap practice for full bore. ProShoot and Monmouth are probably your closest venues.

Hope to see you at a Proshoot or Orion, then!

As suggested above, don't buy anything more at this stage. You can always borrow stuff and work out what's right for you as different shooters have different preferences.

You could spend a fortune on kit you don't use. 

In your kit list above I didn't see a brake or mod mentioned? Recoil management is a big part of PRS competition as you need to spot misses/trace to make corrections. Brake is definitely better (no heat/mirage, light, short, more effective, cheap, not "licensed", doesn't wear out for ages.)

A hefty rifle, as you describe it, is not a disadvantage (why we add weights and have chonky barrels), preferably one that balances forward of the mag well but without too much of that weight being near the muzzle. 

If you add a brake and it screws your groups, you could consider a different bullet if you are going to play with a new load. Nothing wrong with the 147ELD-M but there will be a bit less kick with a lighter, faster bullet (run the numbers in your ballistic app, Strelok, for eg.) and you might be surprised how little difference in drift there is between a fast-but-lower-BC bullet and a slower, more slippery heavy one. Definitely don't change unless you have to revisit load dev for other reasons, though. 
 

I was using 140s (Berger and ELD-M) in my 6.5Creedmoor but switched to 123Scenar when the opportunity arose (cheaper and, at the time, available.) 

I first shot PRS style comps with my 308Win deer rifle and 5rnd mags and had a laugh, learnt lots (not enough to worry the top of the tables though) and then bought kit later. Use what you've got and enjoy it.

See you on the firing point!

Ben B

Interesting, thanks JCS.

Looks promising with the demise of Tin Star and Trail Boss.

4 hours ago, Laurie said:

H4895 / VarGet alternatives Part 3 (4 x Viht v VarGet) is written. I'll do some pics and scans this week and get the piece off to The Gun Pimp (Vince) who is editor / compiler.

H4895 alternatives follow as all range-testing has been completed, also some eight powders in two parts. I've still to load and test the seven or eight Reach-compliant ball-type powders that are available here, a job for this autumn.

Excellent 

3 hours ago, Laurie said:

The Rt/R factor ratio of 0.96 as measured by Litz and seen in the top section of the pic in the previous post is a nearly perfect tangent form. (Rt/R is a numerical description of the ogive to shank junction form: 1.0 = true tangent; 0.5 is the original Knox/Berger VLD aggressive secant form and you can have anything in between leaning one way of the other.)

The TMK version of the 77gn is identical to that of its elderly 77gn MK version bar a fancy coloured tip, tiny BC improvement and additional tenner / 100 on the price. As the original MK was designed to operate at magazine length (2.25-2.26") in the Colt AR-15 HBar civilian match rifle with a chamber that produces c.2.5" COALs for such bullets when seated to just short of the lands with excellent precision, it can fairly be described as one of the most jump-tolerant bullets ever designed, and is moreover capable of superb precision in the right rifle and barrel.

The use of such a chamber on an aftermarket barrel suggests it was produced with a so-called '5.56 NATO' chamber in line with that adopted by Colt for its HBar model. The problem with such chambers is that there are as many takes on them as there are suppliers / machine-shops and many are frankly designed to take 62gn 5.56X45mm military spec ammo and make it reliably go bang in semi-auto AR-15s in the US market with 1-2 MOA or so precision being acceptable. One of the main differences between a true NATO chamber and civilian match versions is in the throat section's diameter. Today's match chambers have throats barely large enough for bullets to pass through whilst the military version is decidedly 'slack' by comparison which improves reliability in combat conditions but degrades precision.

If grouping isn't good enough (and I for one am confused by the original post as what standards are actually being achieved by the rifle), fiddling around with COALs might improve things, but given the bullet's inherent vast tolerance in this respect, would suggest that playing with COALs is more likely to simply burn powder and waste barrel life.

This matter of 223/5.56 chambers is quite confusing and difficult to tease out although there is a lot available online. This feature

 

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/5-56-vs-223/

 

has some good insights and note the chamber reamer dimensions table. It shows true 5.56 chambers have around 0.0025" bullet clearance in the throat ('freebore') over a nominal 0.224" dia bullet whilst true match chambers are nil or virtually so.

Having said all that, there can be 50 different reasons why a rifle isn't performing as well as expected. I'm only cautioning that with this bullet, COAL / seating depth is an unlikely cause, and the allowable near 2.6" COAL suggests an extremely strange chamber has been provided as this is considerably longer than the commonly used Wylde match form would allow for instance.

Always informative, Laurie.

Speaking of which, when can we expect the next installment of your 223Rem post-REACH powder choices?!

I load 77TMK, SMK and Nosler CC to an overall length of 2.260" (ie. Loads of jump!). 

Originally N140 (24gr), then Varget, then RS52 (dropped to 23.8.) 

In other words, I've found them both jump and powder tolerant. Not only this, they shoot to almost exactly the same POI at 100m.

Edit: at this length there is a lot of bullet in the case: vibratory settling avoids compressed load, though.

8 hours ago, TC said:

I had no clue that powder coating cast lead bullets was a thing . I (and my lever actions) obviously don’t get out much as I was finding articles back beyond 2015. 

Intersting stuff.   I’ve only played with copper washed lead to try and cut down on barrel leading and found them to be very soft. 

I don’t particularly want to get in to casting at this point.   Is there a recommended UK source for pre powder coated hardcast bullets?

Tony

Not that am aware of, Tony. 

12 hours ago, maximus otter said:

That isn’t a rifle, it’s a cry for help.

🤣

Seriously: Whatever tilts your kilt.

maximus otter

It's got my sporran twitching, aye!

10 hours ago, Re-Pete said:

Shades of Roger Rabbit......but you forgot to paint the faces on, and the stetsons....

Pete

Hopefully more effective than those "dum-dums"!

1 hour ago, TC said:

Well suited the the Welsh badlands Ben!

Is that the Ranger Point forend?

We obviously need to hear more about the multi colour rounds ……

Tony

Yes, RPP forend. 
 

The multi-coloured rounds are powder-coated cast bullets. The ones for the 45-70 are the SWC "Elmer Keith" 250gr, 300gr Mihec HP (huge HP) and my own design 460gr Mjöllnir (Hammer of Thor, large meplat, gas-checked).