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Best 1000 yard Benchrest Heavy Gun Calibre

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Earlier in this thread people were saying " wait until Norma make dasher brass" etc why? Surely no one shoots virgin brass in a comp rifle? Everybody fire forms there brass before hand?

As a dasher shooter all I do is false shoulder 6br brass load with about 29.5/30g of your chosen powder and shoot it, if you are running in a new barrel you can kill 2 birds with one stone if you like.

The life of a 6mm dasher is around 1500 rounds so a hundred or so cases should do for the barrel, as long as you don't try to thrash the granny out of it and you have some nice tight dies/chamber.

 

Redshift

 

I'm happy to shoot virgin brass in my 6XC.

 

6mmDasher brass forming ain't too bad but 22 Dasher brass is a bit more involved. But, if the fireforming bit is that easy - why is anyone shooting 6BR?

 

I tend to shoot my Dasher brass about 6 times - which equals a season of benchrest. After six firings groups definitely open up.

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I'm happy to shoot virgin brass in my 6XC.

 

6mmDasher brass forming ain't too bad but 22 Dasher brass is a bit more involved. But, if the fireforming bit is that easy - why is anyone shooting 6BR?

 

I tend to shoot my Dasher brass about 6 times - which equals a season of benchrest. After six firings groups definitely open up.

As a complete virgin on this subject, why do the groups open up after 6 shoots of the brass?

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The more you 'work' brass - firing and re-sizing - the harder and springier it becomes. In other words it doesn't size back properly.

 

It gets 'stiff' in the gun and, as we have established, shooting small groups at 1000 yds is all about speed.

 

Your gun must run slick as a greased pig - otherwise you will upset it in the bags. Bolt-lift/closure must be 'knife through butter'.

 

But, benchrest aside, most serious comp. shooters I know will scrap their brass after half a dozen firings. Annealing would be an attractive option.

 

This is where 'out of the box' brass scores. With neck-turned, fireformed brass like a Dasher for example, it's always tempting to run your brass a bit too long.

 

Remember - nothing shoots like new brass!

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Nice vid on 6mmBR.com today showing Charles Hukeba shooting 200 yd benchrest - note bolt-lift with back of the fore-finger knuckle - you won't do this with old springy brass - no gun upset whatsoever.

 

You must get your gun running like this - if you wanna shoot small groups!

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Yes,Vince : excellent 'how to do it '

 

So, "best" 1000y rifle is Dasher,50 lb and shot as above,as per earlier theory/experience posts.

 

For those still tempted by the opposite approach,the next item on Accurate Shooter bulletin may be of interest:

 

.950 JDJ Rifle 3,600g bullet,at 2,200fps ...Enjoy?

 

gbal

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I watched "King Charles" shoot some groups at Silverdale where this video was taken and his technique is spot on.

 

The conditions were truly awful and a certain Mr. T Boyer described them as "challenging" when he was questioned by us....... and he was shooting 1.2 and 1.5" groups at 200 yards.

 

The other guy in the video - Todd Tyler is a very good shooter and would have won the Worlds if he hadn't shot on the wrong target in the penultimate relay, the mirage was so bad you couldn't even see the rings on the target and hence he lined up on the wrong target....... Gary Stewart and I watched and could do nothing other than feel truly sorry for him, he is a very nice guy.

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Apparently the latest 'wundercalibre' is going to be the 'Long Dasher' so who will be first to get a reamer and produce one????

 

 

Sez who, Les? When the 6.5X47L first appeared there was a rush into the necked-down 6mm wildcat version and to a lesser extent the improved, so-called 'Long Dasher' by American mid/long-range BR competitors. A few had very good results, an equal number burned barrels out and never got a load that worked well, and most were somewhere in between with it reported that they didn't get terrible results but struggled to match the results from the traditional improved 6BRs. Whilst the charm of the Dasher is that it usually very quick and easy to tune with 107-108s, the 6.5L based wildcats got a reputation for being very 'picky', at least for those looking for benchrest precision levels.

 

If you want a larger capacity six than the Dasher, the 6XC is already there and easier to use with plenty of reamers around, good (Norma) brass and no need to fireform an 'improved' shape. In terms of case water capacity, the 6 Dasher holds around 41gn; 6-6.5X47, 46gn; Long Dasher 48gn; and 6XC 50gn. The only 'benefit' that the 6.5X47L parent case offers is the small primer and smaller diameter 1.5mm flash-hole, but the XC seems to manage to perform just fine despite its LR primer 'handicap' with a bit of care in primer selection. For people who must have the small primer and who like to fill dark winter evenings with a bit of case reforming, neck turning, trimming, and annealing .... well, it's fairly straightforward to reform Lapua 308 Win 'Palma' brass to 6XC. (The Gun Pimp will be along shortly to say that based on the results he's getting from his Norma XC brass, it's not needed!)

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Apparently the latest 'wundercalibre' is going to be the 'Long Dasher' so who will be first to get a reamer and produce one????

 

My 6mm Smack is exactly that - a long Dasher. Sadly, there is no 'wundercalibre' - I regularly get beaten by std 6mmBRs............

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The 6XC is a good alternative to the Smack but, that small primer (in the 6.5x47 parent case) allows the Smack to run higher velocities (3400fps with a 105gn Berger).

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Sez who, Les? When the 6.5X47L first appeared there was a rush into the necked-down 6mm wildcat version and to a lesser extent the improved, so-called 'Long Dasher' by American mid/long-range BR competitors. A few had very good results, an equal number burned barrels out and never got a load that worked well, and most were somewhere in between with it reported that they didn't get terrible results but struggled to match the results from the traditional improved 6BRs. Whilst the charm of the Dasher is that it usually very quick and easy to tune with 107-108s, the 6.5L based wildcats got a reputation for being very 'picky', at least for those looking for benchrest precision levels.

 

If you want a larger capacity six than the Dasher, the 6XC is already there and easier to use with plenty of reamers around, good (Norma) brass and no need to fireform an 'improved' shape. In terms of case water capacity, the 6 Dasher holds around 41gn; 6-6.5X47, 46gn; Long Dasher 48gn; and 6XC 50gn. The only 'benefit' that the 6.5X47L parent case offers is the small primer and smaller diameter 1.5mm flash-hole, but the XC seems to manage to perform just fine despite its LR primer 'handicap' with a bit of care in primer selection. For people who must have the small primer and who like to fill dark winter evenings with a bit of case reforming, neck turning, trimming, and annealing .... well, it's fairly straightforward to reform Lapua 308 Win 'Palma' brass to 6XC. (The Gun Pimp will be along shortly to say that based on the results he's getting from his Norma XC brass, it's not needed!)

Hi Laurie. I was just browsing Accurate Shooter and noticed it mentioned, so out of boredom I thought I would mention it to elicit/provoke some response to those who know better. Thanks for the response which has put me in my place!!

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Les, Les .......

 

I'd never attempt to 'put you in your place'. (Anyway, I couldn't start to guess where such a place could be :unsure: ) See you at Diggle sometime my friend, alongside our mutual friend, the other Lesley ... or was that Leslie you called him? .......... or is it the other way round, I'm likely getting confused now.

 

I'm happily waiting now with baited breath for Bruce's 40lb 6 Dasher (or whatever he chooses in the end) being created and seeing what it can do. Just goes to show what a sad life I lead.

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I think the 6xc is probably the way to go as Laurie said no fire forming. I have just had the Smack rebarrelled it was a hard decision whether to go with dasher or the 6xc or stay with the smack, I decided to stick with the smack only because I have best part of a thousand Swiss Match cases and the dies etc. The only problem with the Swiss Match brass is it can't take the pressure like the Lapua and Norma brass I can't run much over 3000 fps as the primer pockets fail quickly. I shoot it in 1k Br and F-Class, I finished 18th in the World Championships at Bisley with it, it was the only 6mm shot in the comp. Its only weakness was at 1000yds it couldn't keep up with the big boomers. The Sweeds shoot the 6xc they recon they can get over 3200 fps with no pressure problems, at the European F-Class Championships Christa cleaned the 1000yd target with either 13 or 14 v's so with the extra speed it looks it could be ideal for a 1000yd heavy gun. But wheres the fun in using a case that doesnt need lots of work and fire forming I would only sit in front of the telly and get fat.

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I think the 6xc is probably the way to go as Laurie said no fire forming. I have just had the Smack rebarrelled it was a hard decision whether to go with dasher or the 6xc or stay with the smack, I decided to stick with the smack only because I have best part of a thousand Swiss Match cases and the dies etc. The only problem with the Swiss Match brass is it can't take the pressure like the Lapua and Norma brass I can't run much over 3000 fps as the primer pockets fail quickly. I shoot it in 1k Br and F-Class, I finished 18th in the World Championships at Bisley with it, it was the only 6mm shot in the comp. Its only weakness was at 1000yds it couldn't keep up with the big boomers. The Sweeds shoot the 6xc they recon they can get over 3200 fps with no pressure problems, at the European F-Class Championships Christa cleaned the 1000yd target with either 13 or 14 v's so with the extra speed it looks it could be ideal for a 1000yd heavy gun. But wheres the fun in using a case that doesnt need lots of work and fire forming I would only sit in front of the telly and get fat.

 

you are fat

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MUSIC SYSTEM FITTED NOW WE CAN PLAY YOIUR OLD 33'S

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6.30 mr miles dont be late like usuall

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OK,been a little quiet on this for a week;the suggestion of 6XC,Smack,Long Dasher (etc) have one common denominator-explicitly-more velocity than the Dasher (and obviously 6BR).

 

The rationale of the Dasher seemed to me that rather than try to buck wind changes,try to find a no change wind condition and run with it-hence excellent gun handling.But also premium accuracy-as per my earlier post.If the tactic works,and you find a no change wind window of around 20 secs,then there should be no bullet dispersal due to wind (the wind is the same.Clearly the need for precision loading remains ,to minimise vertical.As argued,given adequate ballistics,the choice of cartridge then devolves to the most accurate available.I see that 6XC et all are very competent-but superior to Dasher in absolute precision?

Note,X bulls won't really do-I'm never really sure,but if the x bull is 1/2 moa,then that's 5 inches-plenty good,of course,but current rifles can shoot that well,if not exactly frequently,it isn't rare either.The ultimate has to perform better-smaller and more regularly.That may well be a rather fine margin-.1 moa means an inch at 1000y-and that's significant.So,do we know the absolute precision of the contenders....because that is what matters in this approach. I have not seen much that promotes the 6XC for this niche,compared to Dasher. To be decided empirically...but not by convenience,cost etc

Let's suppose the dasher holds up as the most accurate,with the faster 6XC a close second (or whatever permutation you hope for). Then there will be those who will quite rationally go for the 6XC (second best accuracy,but superior wind buck),as it offers a small hedge against a slight wind change in the fast fire strategy approach. Not a lot,but some...and the balance is probably not calculable-the pure application is 'go for max accuracy',of course-and reap max reward IF you get a no wind change shot string off,without handling/aiming error.

The slightly less accurate 6XC (still assuming) does offer some margin if there is a small wind change,but a sliht disadvantage if not.

 

Well,what's new-there remain choices in a world that cannot be precisely predicted,even for 20 seconds.

Local intimate knowledge of the range will be important,as it usually is.Probably just as persuasive will be shooter personality/risk management. (see below). Some will stay with the 'big bang' theory.Any are coherent if appropriately related to one's skill and local conditions.Plus ca change,plus c'est la meme chose......

The fast handling "Dasher' though offers potential for significant improvement (within the very small domain of already excellent 1000y shooting.) Take your pick (or shovel.)

 

Small unpredictables indeed- I remember my professor of physics telling the tale of his predecessor who was confident enough about pendulum motion to stage a demonstration whereby a large heavy metal sphere just kissing his forehead was released ,to swing toward the rear of the lecture theatre,and return-in theory,just failing to kiss his forehead. (The no wind condition.)Alas, a disgruntled student at the rear fired a pea shooter and struck the sphere....(unexpected wind change condition),and the unfortunate professor of theoretical physics suffered a ...sphere headache.

 

gbal

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George,

 

At the last benchrest weekend at Easter, Stuart Benson shot a small group of 0.231 inches with his 'out of the box' factory Savage chambered in 6BR. The following day - in similar conditions at 1000 yards he shot a 5.354 inch group.

 

What does that prove? Sod all but I thought I'd mention it.

 

Except that Savage make some remarkably accurate rifles and the 6BR is an inherently accurate cartridge - at all ranges.

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George,

 

At the last benchrest weekend at Easter, Stuart Benson shot a small group of 0.231 inches with his 'out of the box' factory Savage chambered in 6BR. The following day - in similar conditions at 1000 yards he shot a 5.354 inch group.

 

What does that prove? Sod all but I thought I'd mention it.

 

Except that Savage make some remarkably accurate rifles and the 6BR is an inherently accurate cartridge - at all ranges.

 

Thanks Vince,I noticed Stu had graduated from 308 with improved groups-as might be expected,but nonetheless,consistent with the 6BR approach....when I say "Dasher" I don't mean to exclude the 6BR,just have a little more reserve fps,perhaps-but it's a fine distinction-and the target competition results are clear enough-6BR is just fine.Choice 'should' be ultimate accuracy,and if that comes with minimal prep,so much the easier.The Savage competition rifles do seem remarkable for 'out of the box',and bring no fuss 6BR well into 'normal' reach in a good platform-cannot be other than 'a good thing'.

 

g

 

ps is your PM full?

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Anyway George, time to close the laptop lid and open the gun cabinet! Next 1000 yard shoot is rapidly approaching - you have the gun and the knowledge - let's see you on the benches!

 

Is my PM box full? Probably.

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