changing HMR for?

[gbal]

Maybe I'm unique in my experience but I found a night and day difference in performance between a .22H pushing a low BC 50gr soft nose at 2500 fps and a .223 pushing a 50 gr V-max at 3250 fps (light low pressure load). Yes you might be able to push a 40gr V-max towards 3000fps in the .22H but it'll be high pressure and unlikely you can mag feed (if talking about a standard CZ mag). The hornet has its place but .223 is far superior - from a lightweight vermin load right the way to 700 /800 capable with 69gr bullets and a 1:9 twist (and beyond with heavier bullets). I even shot my 1:12 in 500 yard F-class for fun and it did ok.

 

As I said the hornet is great and has its place, but .223 is a better intermediate round (and better available rifle choice).

 

There is a great deal of experience and good advice in what has already been said.The modern Hornet rifle,loaded accordingly,is an improved item compared to what the Hornet once was.Other 22 cfs have of course improved a bit too.A Weirauch 66 in Hornet would likely please an ex 17HMR user a lot,quite likely the same rifle in 222 would please even more!(or 223,but not an option!)-or Anschutz,whatever!

But what is the best?As ever,it depends on several factors.

What do you need-if you need an especially quiet,150-175 rifle mainly for small vermin,and you have to be ultra economical,and can find a rifle you really like from a much reduced choice,then Hornet fits all those.The downside might be an obsolete-still works-design.

The 221 Fireball would offer a little more performance,at a little more cost,and has the considerable advantage of being a shorter (by .3") 222 rem,so a more modern design,with great provenance.Hard not to see it as superior-though loaded ammo would be less available than for the Hornet,if that matters.

The 222/223 have a very considerable advantage over the Hornet-on every ballistic criterion.Considerable:range,velocity,energy-they are fully fox capable;so is the 22/250 though maybe a bit much for 200 yard bunnies-222/3 will handle 250 comfortably.Fast twist 223 will target shoot much further-say 500y+

One factor that is crucial for many is FAC conditions-so 6mms and up may not be options.For use in Scotland the 222/223 and up can be used for roe.

They will cost a bit more per shot-roughly double the powder costs-and won't be quite so moderatable.Choice of rifle will be quite wide,especially for new 223s.

 

What you want should at least carefully balance all these.Different users will quite correctly justify their choices.Fine,so long as you buy for your useage/preferences-not theirs.Always better to have a little extra in hand,than to be disappointed overstretching a cartridge outside its comfort zone.And of course,there are pleny of others in the 224/20/17 cfs-all will be 200+ small vermin /fox capable-some very capable indeed,so if your heart says 22BR,17 rem, exotic wildcat,then OK.They are quite a few that are effectively mid way between 22rf and 260,both of those being excellent end points too,for all UK quarry.Get a rifle that feels right,when you shoot it.Customise/bling it if you wish.

 

Gbal

[Mount Hawke Sniper]

There is a great deal of experience and good advice in what has already been said.The modern Hornet rifle,loaded accordingly,is an improved item compared to what the Hornet once was.Other 22 cfs have of course improved a bit too.A Weirauch 66 in Hornet would likely please an ex 17HMR user a lot,quite likely the same rifle in 222 would please even more!(or 223,but not an option!)-or Anschutz,whatever!

But what is the best?As ever,it depends on several factors.

What do you need-if you need an especially quiet,150-175 rifle mainly for small vermin,and you have to be ultra economical,and can find a rifle you really like from a much reduced choice,then Hornet fits all those.The downside might be an obsolete-still works-design.

The 221 Fireball would offer a little more performance,at a little more cost,and has the considerable advantage of being a shorter (by .3") 222 rem,so a more modern design,with great provenance.Hard not to see it as superior-though loaded ammo would be less available than for the Hornet,if that matters.

The 222/223 have a very considerable advantage over the Hornet-on every ballistic criterion.Considerable:range,velocity,energy-they are fully fox capable;so is the 22/250 though maybe a bit much for 200 yard bunnies-222/3 will handle 250 comfortably.Fast twist 223 will target shoot much further-say 500y+

One factor that is crucial for many is FAC conditions-so 6mms and up may not be options.For use in Scotland the 222/223 and up can be used for roe.

They will cost a bit more per shot-roughly double the powder costs-and won't be quite so moderatable.Choice of rifle will be quite wide,especially for new 223s.

What you want should at least carefully balance all these.Different users will quite correctly justify their choices.Fine,so long as you buy for your useage/preferences-not theirs.Always better to have a little extra in hand,than to be disappointed overstretching a cartridge outside its comfort zone.And of course,there are pleny of others in the 224/20/17 cfs-all will be 200+ small vermin /fox capable-some very capable indeed,so if your heart says 22BR,17 rem, exotic wildcat,then OK.They are quite a few that are effectively mid way between 22rf and 260,both of those being excellent end points too,for all UK quarry.Get a rifle that feels right,when you shoot it.Customise/bling it if you wish.

Gbal

As a relative newbie and someone researching firearms and sorting out my application at the moment I found the quote about one of the most informative things I've ever read since I starting looking things up

 

Thanks gbal, a top bit of info

 

Cheers MHS

[kent]

 

Maybe I'm unique in my experience but I found a night and day difference in performance between a .22H pushing a low BC 50gr soft nose at 2500 fps and a .223 pushing a 50 gr V-max at 3250 fps (light low pressure load). Yes you might be able to push a 40gr V-max towards 3000fps in the .22H but it'll be high pressure and unlikely you can mag feed (if talking about a standard CZ mag). The hornet has its place but .223 is far superior - from a lightweight vermin load right the way to 700 /800 capable with 69gr bullets and a 1:9 twist (and beyond with heavier bullets). I even shot my 1:12 in 500 yard F-class for fun and it did ok.

 

As I said the hornet is great and has its place, but .223 is a better intermediate round (and better available rifle choice).

 

You mis understand me. The .223 rem is outclassed by the .260 IMO and yet is also over powered for sub 200 bunnies again IMO. Look at cross over and gaps, in the UK we cannot hold twenty different rifles (I know I tried ). In practical terms .22 Hornet v .223 rem is pretty much 6 of one and half a dozen of the other, as such they are too close.

2900 is achievable with a 45 grn bullet in the hornet without pressure and long brass life, it will do all up to foxes up to 200yds and further, thereafter the .260 could take over and at far shorter ranges the .22 lr. I hope you get the point, I am well aware the .223 rem offers superior long range performance but one might look at the thread title?

[sako]

Was thinking of going down same route, change hmr for a hornet. Fancy a cheap to run quiet calibre for vermin.

I think reloading will give better accuracy than hmr.

Might wait till 17 hornet available here in a cz.

[pork chop]

Was thinking of going down same route, change hmr for a hornet. Fancy a cheap to run quiet calibre for vermin.

I think reloading will give better accuracy than hmr.

Might wait till 17 hornet available here in a cz.

these were my thoughts a few weeks back but looks like its going to be next year till the 17 turns up unless you have one put together.got a 22 hornet in the end and so far very happy with it,not started loading yet (just to hot) but it will group 1/2" at 100yrd with 35 vmax

heres a pic of its first trip out

[pwinnall]

 

You mis understand me. The .223 rem is outclassed by the .260 IMO and yet is also over powered for sub 200 bunnies again IMO. Look at cross over and gaps, in the UK we cannot hold twenty different rifles (I know I tried ). In practical terms .22 Hornet v .223 rem is pretty much 6 of one and half a dozen of the other, as such they are too close.

2900 is achievable with a 45 grn bullet in the hornet without pressure and long brass life, it will do all up to foxes up to 200yds and further, thereafter the .260 could take over and at far shorter ranges the .22 lr. I hope you get the point, I am well aware the .223 rem offers superior long range performance but one might look at the thread title?

Hello, My 10/22 Tony Kidd rifle is more for gallery rifle comps so a .22 Hornet will be for up to 200yds but more like about 100yds or so. I like to be sure of a good shot.

Then my AI AE MkIII in .260 rem for everything else. I do want a .223 but that will be an AR-15 :-) Then that should do me for a while.

So it looks like I will take off the .17HMR for a more useable .22 hornet then is a fox comes along it will drop it cleanly.

Best Regards Phil

[sako]

Pork chop

do you think hornet moderates with centerfire mod, as quiet,as hmr with rimfire mod ?

[pork chop]

both the hornet and my hmr i sold use/used dm80 mods,the hornet is a little louder but not by much

[gunner]

2.0 moa drop and 2.5 moa FV 10mph at 200 yards 130yds zero point and shoot on trajectory to near 160 yards. 45 grn Seirra Hornet @2900 fps. It carries more than enough energy, need to go further than 200 or have some bad conditions to pick up a bigger gun these days myself. Blooming CZ 527 shoots as well as anything I have had off the shelf and in near three years I aint done no more than clean it yet, haven't even adjusted the trigger

i agree kent on more than enough ! 200 being the max really so not trying to push it ! between the ruger and cz its cz , but has anyone got a pic of the hw66 in 22hornet ?? please ? also is there a .20 hornet ? im gunna have a look !! dies and components will prob be much pricier if its available at all ! and shortages on some 20 heads - prob safer to just stick to hornet !! thanks everyone for input !

[Andrew]

I recently swapped off scopes on my CZ 527 American. In re-zeroing at 100M, the largest three shot group I got of the four I needed was .63" the smallest was about .219 inches. These with a Midway 34 grain Dog Town HP over 13.5 Lil Gun and a small pistol primer. I can't say that kind of accuracy is a fluke.~Andrew

[pork chop]

i agree kent on more than enough ! 200 being the max really so not trying to push it ! between the ruger and cz its cz , but has anyone got a pic of the hw66 in 22hornet ?? please ? also is there a .20 hornet ? im gunna have a look !! dies and components will prob be much pricier if its available at all ! and shortages on some 20 heads - prob safer to just stick to hornet !! thanks everyone for input !

there is a 20 hornet,i gave that some thought too.dies could be a pain to get steve kershaw is going to put one together soon so will keep an eye on that see how it works out

 

I recently swapped off scopes on my CZ 527 American. In re-zeroing at 100M, the largest three shot group I got of the four I needed was .63" the smallest was about .219 inches. These with a Midway 34 grain Dog Town HP over 13.5 Lil Gun and a small pistol primer. I can't say that kind of accuracy is a fluke.~Andrew

just got back from working up a load for my cz,40gr vmax 13gr lilgun rem brass crimped 20 thou off lands,shot at 100yrd in a left to right breeze first three shots went into .27 next two shots went into .21but the breeze must have dropped off alittle as the two groups spread left to right giving a group of .6.altered scope then had two shots to check zero they cut one hole. think i can live with that ,never bothered to measure groups with a vernier before but i was very happy with the groups and thought they were worth a proper measure

[gunner]

there is a 20 hornet,i gave that some thought too.dies could be a pain to get steve kershaw is going to put one together soon so will keep an eye on that see how it works out

 

just got back from working up a load for my cz,40gr vmax 13gr lilgun rem brass crimped 20 thou off lands,shot at 100yrd in a left to right breeze first three shots went into .27 next two shots went into .21but the breeze must have dropped off alittle as the two groups spread left to right giving a group of .6.altered scope then had two shots to check zero they cut one hole. think i can live with that ,never bothered to measure groups with a vernier before but i was very happy with the groups and thought they were worth a proper measure

nice one PC is your cz standard 1:14 twister ? 40 Vmax is probably the bullet id use . and spsx if i could get em ... atb ... tim ...

[pork chop]

it's bedded into a boyds stock and had the barrel choped to 18".these are the first loads i've tried and if they group like that next time i'll be sticking with them.now i've got to alter the mag to feed them

[jordang]

Swapped my hmr for a 17 REM and haven't regretted it one bit, other than not doing it sooner. I couldnt ask for more for a fox and smaller carry rifle.

[Andrew]

there is a 20 hornet,i gave that some thought too.dies could be a pain to get steve kershaw is going to put one together soon so will keep an eye on that see how it works out

 

just got back from working up a load for my cz,40gr vmax 13gr lilgun rem brass crimped 20 thou off lands,shot at 100yrd in a left to right breeze first three shots went into .27 next two shots went into .21but the breeze must have dropped off alittle as the two groups spread left to right giving a group of .6.altered scope then had two shots to check zero they cut one hole. think i can live with that ,never bothered to measure groups with a vernier before but i was very happy with the groups and thought they were worth a proper measure

I took my annual vacation this week with some die-hard prairiedog shooters shooting 20 Tac and 20 Prac on fine custom rifles. I used my ever present CZ Hornet. They obviously had the range edge but I managed to kill 3 dogs at 300 yards and another two at 265 as my long shots. Under 200 yards was a given. The next day was pretty regular kills out to 250. As was pointed out by the 20 Prac shooter, I shoot this rifle all the time and in shooting, familiarity does not breed contempt.

 

I have had a number of people tell me that the 22 Hornet "...isn't much better than a 22 magnum." Total nonsense.~Andrew

[Gran]

I went HMR to .20Tac, don't dismiss the .20s so easily.

 

Gran

 

.20Tac at the front.

[pork chop]

me and a mate were breaking clays at 300 yrd with his hornet when he first got it.i shot a crow at 240 last week and just missed another that sat at the side of him shouting as they do.love the hornet the more i use it glad i made the change

[gbal]

me and a mate were breaking clays at 300 yrd with his hornet when he first got it.i shot a crow at 240 last week and just missed another that sat at the side of him shouting as they do.love the hornet the more i use it glad i made the change

 

The Hornet with modern loadings is impressive within it's limited envelope-it is certainly a real step up from any rimfire.But is it a one shot one hit 250 (let alone 300) yard cartridge? I don't doubt that you could walk shots in to hit clays,in reasonably good wind conditions.The Hornet isn't economical/effective/ethical when it misses 50% of the time.

The real comparison is that a decent 222 would have got both the crows.

Gbal

[pork chop]

The Hornet with modern loadings is impressive within it's limited envelope-it is certainly a real step up from any rimfire.But is it a one shot one hit 250 (let alone 300) yard cartridge? I don't doubt that you could walk shots in to hit clays,in reasonably good wind conditions.The Hornet isn't economical/effective/ethical when it misses 50% of the time.

The real comparison is that a decent 222 would have got both the crows.

Gbal

missed him by about an inch bad wind call on my part nothing to do with it being a hornet,but if it makes you feel big and important putting me down yet again crack on

[gbal]

missed him by about an inch bad wind call on my part nothing to do with it being a hornet,but if it makes you feel big and important putting me down yet again crack on

It's not personal-it's a comment on the capabilities of the Hornet-not the shooter. The Hornet is not the best choice for 240-300 yards shots on small sentient targets. Put it this way-do you think you would have missed with the 222,which is certainly an inch more tolerant of wind call errors-that is exactly the point I'm making-YOU would have hit it with a 222,nothing else changed,just the choice of tool for the job.I don't think the 222 is the 'big and important' cartridge either-a 22 PPC,and definitely a 6PPC,would be even better,especially if it was a small crow.

Gbal

[Andrew]

A Hornet is not the gun for those not willing to put in the time to learn its ways. Another down side is that little factory ammo utilizes its potential and handloading for the Hornet is something that requires care for best results. Best to just get something like a 204 and forget the wind and trajectory thing. Hold and shoot out to 200. Easy stuff.~Andrew

[204 rem]

We've already got 204 rifles. Wanted something more challenging And more fun to shoot With

[sako]

I have 22 250, and 223 , I fancy the 17 hornet to replace hmr for longer range crows/rabbits, nice, quiet, cheap to shoot round

[sako]

I have 22 250, and 223 , I fancy the 17 hornet to replace hmr for longer range crows/rabbits, nice, quiet, cheap to shoot round

[gunner]

still probably going Hornet for up to 200yds , as stated in original post , ill stay away from .20 as my 223Ackley does the job from 200yds and onwards , hornet is hard to beat , economical , fairly quite , i remember bruce potts article on the hornet , in the right hands its a 250 yrd gun ! no special fetteling or parts , just a great calibre . ill reload for it too , just hope i can get the right powder .. atb...tim...