old school AI AWP vs new school AI AXMC

[baldie]

The AW still exists....it's the AT with a different stock.

 

The only part on the metalwork is the trigger blade and the rail thats different. The action and all its internals are AW. The factory is therefore still making all the parts. The action is the same with the addition of the barrel screw, thats all.

 

I have, In stock, every part required to service any AI ever made.

 

Most military and police outfits who submit rifles for service are now having them upgraded, to more modern spec. This means de-bonding the actions and re fitting into more modern stocks.

 

Its an armourer modular rifle. There is not much that cannot be swapped about/upgraded.

[AIlswell]

Although that would be nice , ie AI thinking of its civie customers , I think that the real reason is more inclined to be , that AI have contracts with Military customers that have AIs in service , as reguards to continuing to support those AI old model rifles in use , thru making new spare parts to complete rifles if that makes sense for the projected life of the system/rifle etc .

 

You may well be correct. In general I see few signs that AI gives much focus to it's UK civilian market. While I can understand that their main business priority will likely remain MIL/LE, as far as civilian sales are concerned it seems that their main focus by far is flogging as much volume as they can into the US market. Again that is completely understandable for their business development given the size of the US market versus the crumbs that can be had here (and probably elsewhere around the world), but it's still disappointing to customers here in the UK given that they are a British company. It's ironic but when I've had issues that I needed to resolve (spare parts etc) I have had way better customer service from Schmidt and Bender in Germany than AI in the UK.

[AIlswell]

The AW still exists....it's the AT with a different stock.

 

 

I have a 1999 made AW. I was told, by people who ought to know, that the stock fabrication is different to the later AW models so I think your comment about parts can only apply to the AW models made from approximately year 2000 onwards. I do not believe an AT is the same as a 1990's made AW. Also, following your logic, the AT is the same as the AX too as that is essentially just an AW with a trick stock (albeit both AT and AX obviously have the QD barrel change which I would say is the key difference versus the original AW).

[AIlswell]

 

I have, In stock, every part required to service any AI ever made.

 

 

I recently required a current production standard AX part which you did not have in stock, and neither did SS. Although it was an item that I would have expected to be off-the-shelf I had to wait three months for delivery from the factory. I would be interested to know the definition of "service parts"...for a MIL customer, where just about any component could be damaged irreparably in use, does that not include all component parts?

[AIlswell]

I have, In stock, every part required to service any AI ever made.

 

 

I would like a set of one piece (non-folding) original 1990's thumbhole pattern stocksides for the AW in Green with the butt cut out to take the adjustable cheek piece. I will be delighted, and surprised, if you have those in stock.

[baldie]

The definition of service parts is the components to fix or repair the commonly worn bits.

 

I have 3 sets of pigeon hole drawers with 50 drawers each. They are all full. There is over £10, 000 worth of tiny parts from the tiniest spring, to a firing pin.

 

I have all parts to make a broken rifle serviceable again.

 

I do not keep stock sides, side rails etc as these are not service parts.

[ChrisF]

I think the AT also differs in the bolt head , I know my AI AW 308 has 3 lugs , and I think the AT has 6 lugs ?

[AIlswell]

..

[AIlswell]

I think the AT also differs in the bolt head , I know my AI AW 308 has 3 lugs , and I think the AT has 6 lugs ?

 

That's correct - the AX and AT both use the new six lug design versus the three lug on the AW. I've never seen any credible explanation about why this change represents a practical improvement in design (I accept it may win brownie points in the competitive marketing). I've not heard of any failure on the three lug designs in normal use so it would be interesting if anyone has an explanation about why the 6 lugs are better... In terms of accuracy, I can see no difference in the new AX/AT in 7.62 versus the AW 7.62 i.e. they are all sub 0.5 MOA rifles with a decent load/shooter. Comparison pics below.

 

 

[AIlswell]

The definition of service parts is the components to fix or repair the commonly worn bits.

 

I have 3 sets of pigeon hole drawers with 50 drawers each. They are all full. There is over £10, 000 worth of tiny parts from the tiniest spring, to a firing pin.

 

I have all parts to make a broken rifle serviceable again.

 

I do not keep stock sides, side rails etc as these are not service parts.

 

Thanks for the clarification.

[baldie]

The early AX,s were also supplied with a 3 lug bolt originally. I have one.

[ds1]

I think 3 lugs v 6 lugs on a 308 we are debating the aesthetic value of lipstick on a pig. Important is 3 or 6 lugs (2x rows of 3) give 60 degree bolt lift.

 

The step forward came with a 22mm bolt diameter on the Axmc, vs 19mm on the Awsm 338. Guess that facilitated the double stack 10 shot 338 mag.

[ChrisF]

I think the 6 lug was used in the magnum AWM/AWSM rifles to give more strenght when using the 300WM & 338LM calibres , as the bolt dia of both the short action ( AW ) and the long action (AWM/AWSM ) are the same , only the lenght is different .

[AIlswell]

I think 3 lugs v 6 lugs on a 308 we are debating the aesthetic value of lipstick on a pig. Important is 3 or 6 lugs (2x rows of 3) give 60 degree bolt lift.

 

The step forward came with a 22mm bolt diameter on the Axmc, vs 19mm on the Awsm 338. Guess that facilitated the double stack 10 shot 338 mag.

 

 

I agree - I can see no advantage of 6 versus 3 lug in 7.62. Are you saying the six lug is advantageous for the magnum/super magnum rounds or also irrelevant for those too (i.e. only the increase in diameter brings advantages)?

[ds1]

Without factory pressure and bolt thrust data it is a guess. My guess is that the collet design is more critical than the lugs and the lugs compliment the collet.

 

My train of thought with the Axmc, it has a larger receiver to allow use of the wider 338lm CIP length double stack mag. The larger receiver let's you use a larger diameter bolt, so hopefully more meat around the bolt head and also hopefully allows use of a larger collet (not measured this).

 

The real talking point with the Axmc though is the quick change barrel system with the split receiver / clamp system....as per my original post the jury is still out on this for me....for a year or three.

[Hobbit]

Are there any concerns over wear or other negative implications of changing the AXMC barrel in and out frequently - what might the concern be here?

 

I saw that a number of AI sponsored PRS competitors in the US transported their AXMC's broken down - although I guess they are covered if things go wrong/wear out

[ds1]

Conjecture on my part but I think ( do not know) that the barrel and receiver threads after a good few firings will mate to each other, with a right hand twist the torque would help this too a bit. Screw another barrel in and the threads will be a little different. It may not make any difference to the receiver as the 416 stainless barrel will not be heat treated like the receiver. I expect a grain or two of sand would not help though.

 

In practice however I have not had any issues taking the 338 barrel off and putting it back on it has always returned to its zero. I have not tried other barrels though. Btw the receiver on the axmc is a split receiver with a bolt that tightens the clamp, using the factory spec 48 inch lbs I have not had any issues - excellent accuracy. On the hide they seem to go up to 55 inch lbs but that is not factory spec - and then there are arguments on how well torque wrenches are calibrated and the effect of lube on the barrel threads affecting clamping force etc.

 

Consistency is probably a good answers to most things.

[Hobbit]

Thanks

 

so you use a torque wrench not the supplied Allen key in the stock??

 

I have just got my AXMC and have yet to remove the barrel but I may end up swapping them a lot so want to develop an approach that minimises wear and other issues

[ds1]

I use a torque wrench - much more consistent than the Allen key. I would look for some consistency also on how you keep the barrel and receiver threads clean and lubed also.

[baldie]

One comment to add to the takedown screw.

 

DO NOT , under any circumstances tighten the screw up without a barrel in the action.

 

You will draw the clamp in, past the point where a barrel can be re inserted.

 

A good quality torque wrench is your friend. Only use it to tighten, use the supplied allen key to unlock.

[Avian]

One comment to add to the takedown screw.

 

DO NOT , under any circumstances tighten the screw up without a barrel in the action.

 

You will draw the clamp in, past the point where a barrel can be re inserted.

 

A good quality torque wrench is your friend. Only use it to tighten, use the supplied allen key to unlock.

What is the recommended tension to set the torque wrench to?

[Hobbit]

Very helpful guys - thanks

 

On the one hand it is a military spec rifle and you feel it should be bomb proof on the other hand there are very expensive and I would not like to make a stupid mistake

 

Any views on the torque required as perAvians questions?

 

Thanks

[Shuggy]

The quickloc screw should be tightened to 5.5Nm or 49 in-lbs. I set my Wheeler Fat Wrench to 50 in-lbs, which is close enough.

[ds1]

A look in the AI manual gives a range from 5.0 to 5.5 Nm (44.25 to 48.68 inch lbs). Variance will come one with the torque wrench - most of the one I have have an error range of around 6% per makers instructions and more variance will come from how the barrel threads are lubed or not.

[Hobbit]

I have got a wheeler fat wrench - trust this will do the job

 

I wonder if any research was don on the long term impact of repeated barrel change as part of the US sniper rifle contract that led to the AXMC, TRG M10 etc??

 

Can't see any to internet