Variation and calibre choice opinions/advice please

[Jamie]

Hi folks.

I appreciate "Barndoor" has just placed a similar thread, which I've read several times to get my head around the calibres. But my situation is different, along with requiring variation advice, and maybe similar experiences others have faced.

I do intend on giving my FEO a ring, but don't want to put my foot in my gob and cause myself problems.

I'm hopefully about to join one or more clubs for target shooting, with ranges (i'm told) that go from 50 metres to 1400 metres. As such I have lots of questions.

My current situation is that I have several permissions, my main one having previously been cleared for .243 so I could shoot deer. But after a break in shooting of 6-7 years, I was told the land had to be re-checked. This was done around 3 years ago, when I got back into shooting. However, as the deer situation is not too bad I settled on .223 for fox, .204 Ruger and Rimfires for other vermin.

I did join a local rifle range club, and enjoyed the banter I'd missed after retiring. But after a year I grew frustrated as the club is not cleared for centre fire rifles. As a result I never renewed my membership....

Now I have the opportunity and desire to do some long range shooting, out to say 800 yards. I do not (yet anyhow) have a burning desire to get to the golden 1000 yards. It's more a case of getting that banter back with other like minded people, and maybe take part in some friendly comps.

Now onto my questions -

Will I get my NRA "Green Card" as a matter of course on joining a club as a probationer?

As I already have an FAC with rifles up to .223, is it worth applying for my variation before my probation period is up?

 

I'm told that as long as you have the green card you can shoot at Bisley without being a member of a club. If that is the case, do you have to join a club and complete the probationary period before you will qualify for a variation? I fully intend to join a club, but if the Bisley issue is true, surely the variation becomes a bit of a "chicken and egg" situation??

 

Bearing in mind how finicky and on occasions difficult some firearms departments can be; Would my variation be looked at more favourably if I added these two points. One I intend to trade my .204 Ruger so i'll have one less firearm. And also, that i'd like the .260 cleared (if the lands suitable) for deer, as I really would like to go back to the days of having a little venison now and again.

Just to add, the land (which has not changed) has previously been cleared for .243, is a 260 that much more "gun"?

I appreciate some people may remind me that some FEO's may be members of UKV, or at least read the forum. I'm not trying to do anything underhanded, I just want fair and reasonable treatment.....

As I intend to also use my .223 on the range, what would be considered to be a reasonable ammo request to purchase or possess for both the .223 and .260?

Now onto what rifle I'm leaning very much towards....

I really like the idea of a Tikka T3 SV in .260. I've came to this conclusion based mainly on the great responses to "Barndoor's" recent post.

The .260 is readily available "off the shelf" at a reasonable price.

I presume dies, brass and the like for reloading should be readily available, (I'll look in a mo)

Would the 260 be permissible in most competitions in it's class?

What limitations or drawbacks would I likely face by going with the 260?

The spec states the 260 has a 1 in 8 twist, and a heavy barrel at 23 3/4" long.

I presume as long as I don't use continuous hot loads the barrel should last a while?

Apologies for the long post folks, I've condensed it as much as possible, and would appreciate some constructive advice.

Thanks

Jamie

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[6.5Grendel]

Hi

I dont think you will get a range certification card (green card ) as soon as you join a club. They are usually issued once the club is happy with your safe handling of firearms and competency on the range. It will be discipline specific , so if your club shoots gallery rifle and .22 target you wont get centre fire.

Also to shoot at Bisley you have to be a member of the NRA and have a cert card , unless the range is booked by your club and you attend with them.

One option would be to join bisley and get your card via them although i think it is expensive.

With regards to calibre i dont think you will be disappointed with a .260 . As you have been shooting for a while yhen ask to have your licence 'opened' . It is then your call if the land is suitable.

Regards

Andy

[Will0]

I can't help much with the FEO part, my rifle choice was very similar. The Tikka super varmint took 15 months to arrive!

Spud sorted me out some dies, brass is easy (if not, can be formed from similar cases), and bullets available.

 

I think all new Tikka .260s now have the 1:8 twist, so they should be good for the 140 grain bullets, but these do eat up powder room in the case. Putting my (very mildly compressed) loads over the chrono, I'm only getting 2500fps - although that was sub zero temperature.

I'll have a fiddle with seating them longer, which of course means I'll have to either modify the magazine or single load them, and see where it takes me.

[Jamie]

Thanks both for the replies.

I called Bisley to get an idea of costs. Although the lady was very nice, she was a tad vague. She believed it was £47 to join the NRA/Bisley, then I'd have to pay £99 for a centrefire safe handling assessment/tutoring. Where I'd be shown and taught how to handle the rifles safely before being given the green card. However, she wasn't sure how long I had to be a member for, before I could submit my variation.

I'm waiting for a call tomorrow, by the person who would teach/assess me before handing over a green card. I'm hoping he knows a little more.

[M99]

Whilst I am sure Nick will put you right tomorrow (I would hazard a guess it will be Nick Halford) who rings you from the NRA, there is no such thing as a green card. The Safe Shooters competence certificate is white.

 

Where are you located. A local full bore club may suit your needs better.

 

Also where will you be shooting out to 1400 metres and with which club ?

[gbal]

Jamie,

Get club/Bisley information on 'Green card' (Shooters Safety Cert??) etc -as you are already doing-I think you mean the "Shooter Certification Card" which is issued by NRA,often via clubs who do a safety test for specified firearms categories (eg scoped rifles)-small whitecard,with photo -clubs will charge for it-perhaps not much,it varies (£10-I think is the NRA charge for admin?)

 

260 rem is an excellent choice -as per barndoor-and covers club shooting to 800 very well,and also all UK deer. Muzzle energy of a 243 is around 1950 ft lb,and a 260 about 2350 ft lb,in standard SAAMi loadings.If the ground has 243 clearance,it is unlikely that it would be denied 260,for that reason-ask for an 'open certificate' if you have experience ,then it's essentially your call. FLO do look for experience of field shooting for an 'open cert'. Reloading components for 260 are readily available at standard costs,including dies etc. It's clear you do not want/need a dedicated target rifle for 1000y.The 260 would not be permissible for the restricted FTR class (308/223 only),but otherwise is good for most else,and better than a specialised item-which can't be optimum. NO one rifle really does it all. Reasonable choices too-as yours-Tikka,Sako ,Remington.

 

"Might trade 204" won't really help-it's just a 'might',and has to remain on FAC-if the "260" is to be added,that has to be on it's merits "good reason'-like club/deer!

You might ask for 500 ammunition each calibre,if that seems reasonable to you,but be realistic-economy is NOT good reason on it's own.

A moderator should be granted-it really does make sustained firing much more agreeable,and simply better,as well as 'health' good reason.

 

With some experience,permission for deer and appropriate club membership-"good reason"-you are well placed,and should be fairly considered.

 

gbal

[Montey]

My advise ,doe the NRA asment it takes about two hours . You already have an FAC so do scoped rifle.The card (a plastic white card with your photo on it) will allow you to shoot on any Millatery range. It means joining the NRA who will possibly back you if your refused a permission. As already stated Nick is the man to speak to, good luck and happy shooting.

[Jamie]

Mike,Montey, and George.

Thanks for the advice regarding the Safe Shooters competence/NRA Assessment.

I have to say, I did feel that I was being put on a production line for mere profit when I called Bisley. Maybe I sounded to keen to get the "Assessment card" completed. With fuel, we're talking around a 4 hour return journey, and a cost of just over £200 including fuel to hopefully complete and obtain this card. Don't get me wrong, if I get to do a reasonable amount of shooting, and I'm learning valuable skills, I don't mind. Does the £99 include any ammo and a rifle, or do I take my .223? Having no experience of this assessment, I don't want the pee taken out of me by lining someone else's pockets to excess! Are there any cheaper (I presume slower) ways to achieve the goal of obtaining this "card"? And if so how and where? I presume having a "card" won't get my license cleared for 260 any quicker? Or would it... If I mentioned it to the FEO and on the variation, I suppose it shows definite intent to shoot at ranges/clubs.

George, do you really think I could get an open ticket? I've been shooting shotguns and airguns for as long as I can recall. I had a couple of years or so with my .243. 22lr, and .17HMR, before the kids took over and I had a break. I've now been back into it for around 2 1/2 years. Using .223 (1 year), .204, Rimfires and regular shotgun outings. Along with a years membership at my local range using rimfires and doing my bit as RO a few times. I've also had basic training in using, and making safe black powder pistols and rifles. Is that really enough for an open ticket? I suppose in fairness it depends on the force area, let alone the FEO...

The lady asked what my fac said in relation to use on ranges. It states, "The firearms and ammunition shall be used for target shooting, and only whilst a member of Wedgenock Rifle and Pistol Club". It also states, I can use it for "Zeroing on ranges, or land deemed suitable by the Chief Officer.............Does that ban me from all ranges until I have it changed??

I forgot to mention that I will be applying for a moderator for the 260.

When you say 500 is reasonable. I've no idea what is? How many on average would I likely used on a day at the ranges?

Thanks for the imput folks.

atb

Jamie

[bradders]

The Safe Shooter certification means that when you have it you are cleared to shoot on MoD (and Bisley) ranges (which Bisley falls under) for that class of firearm.

There is no reason to think it will help in getting a different calibre of firearm to shoot 'over land'.

 

If you join a local shooting club you will most likely be restricted to local MoD ranges, therefore you will need a SSC.

You could get certified by your new club, or you could just forget that idea as access to MoD ranges may be somewhat restricted and sporadic due to the Army getting first dibs.

Furthermore on any range day you may be limited to what you can do depending on what other club members are doing, namely aimless plinking at a V bull.

You are better off biting the bullet and joining the NRA or a club that shoots regularly at Bisley, because that is the best bet.

Furthermore it will give you access to the best ranges around and a whole host of disciplines.

 

You may think it's a bit far, but once every 3 or 4 weeks with a few like minded people and it will be well worth it.

Alternatively you could look at Diggle, but I feel Bisley would suit you more......and you might bump into me

And what could be better than that?

[gbal]

Jamie,if you join a shooting club with longer range shooting it will likely be on an MOD range,and you will need the SCC,allowing you to shoot on MOD ranges (and Bisley),as Bradders says(you do not s I understand it,need one for eg DIggle,which does offer a very wide choice of shooting disciplines too-clubs will offer the safety checks required of shooters for issue of the SCC,and may well make it a condition of full membership-once you have theSCC it allows shooting on any MOD range...whether that would be quicker may vary;I imagine in most clubs it will be cheaper-much cheaper.

Only you can decide the logistics/costs of travel/accomodation-I have no connection with the venues mentioned,but I think Bradders advice is OK,allowing for his misunderstanding of how one actually gets xbulls at long range-it ain't "aimless' ( :-) Other users may have ranges booked,but this will be known in advance;but each discipline gets its chances...As to number of rounds 'needed'-well,some competitions might need 50,some twice that...and if there are free fire sessions some might fire quite a lot-I'd think 200 in an afternoon would be rather on the high side-for comfort too,but it's open ended....wrt FAC authority,you need to be realistic-it is rather variable,but should not be restrictive.

As you suggest,an 'open certificate' will only be considered for experienced shooters-especially experience of shooting on "suitable land'-permissions,not ranges.You can but ask,but again,how important is it to you,if you have 'several permissions'-you will probably need deer permission in writing,though there may be some discretion....the over arching FLO concern is public safety.Your FLO will listen,and assess.It is useful if you have a clear idea of what you really reasonably want....it can be added to.You can ,of course,join more than one club...some might get by with a monthly trip to Bisley,or wherever.For others this might be a bit of a treat,given rather more shooting at a local range-though that may well not be at very Long Range (600+) often-but it might also not cost £100 p/a either. It is true the Army may cancel a civilian club booking at short notice,but it does not happen too often (maybe 1 in10 ?).So might snow!

 

There really is no reason to suppose an unhelpful ,let alone awkward FLO-and some are helpful,and constructive and there is detailed guidance from the Home Office.

 

g

[Brillo]

Jamie,

 

If you join any one of the club's I suggested in my email (they are affiliated to the NRA) the appropriate club's official will be able to issue you a Safe Shooter's Competency card on completion of your probationary period and having satisfied the necessary criteria. You do not need to be a member of the NRA to be issued with the SSC. Once you have the card you will be able to shoot at Kingsbury as well as the ranges mentioned by previous posters.

 

Until you have the card you will still be able to shoot on your new club's ranges and at Kingsbury under the wing of a current card holder who will be responsible for you all the time you are on the range.

[Jamie]

Thanks for the further replies folks, very helpful.

Firstly, as for Diggle, it's just to far to be a realistic regular shooting venue for me.

I think I've also complicated the post by adding too many facets to it. Perhaps I'd have been better off with single posts as and when the time came....

Apologies Mark, (Brillo) I just recalled what you said in your email about some club members being able to sign my SSC.

At present, I'm trying to work out what the pros and cons would be for either getting my SSC done at Bisley and hopefully joining 2 clubs

Or get it done after I've joined the clubs? I understand I'll need one for MOD ranges, but would I still be allowed to shoot at say Kingsbury

(For instance) under guidance as a new probationary member?

I may be totally wrong, but I presume the probationary period stays the same, regardless of where and when the SSC is done?

And if that's the case then the money spent doing it at Bisley would be better put towards joining the clubs i'd like to shoot at?

On the point of the SSC, I believe the "scoped rifle" would be the best to go for.

 

As for my variation, i think i may have been trying to rush things a bit. Maybe i need to slow down and enjoy just joining a couple of clubs as a probationer and using my .223 for now? I doubt an FEO would grant me a 260 when i'm only a probationary member.

I need to have a chat with a couple of the permission owners just to be sure they're definitely happy regarding the deer situation.

No doubt i'll add a bit more info before the days out.

Cheers

Jamie

[Jamie]

Thought I'd add an update.

I was invited to Kingsbury last weekend, and under the guidance of a Safety Certified person was allowed to shoot my .223 Rem.

It was freezing, literally! But I can't remember the last time I had such a rewarding days shooting. It's fair to say I'm hooked on the target shooting scene!

So much so that I joined the club that very day! The club was Offas Dyke. I more or less knew I'd likely end up joining this club, for numerous reasons. The main ones being the amount of venues, where they shoot, and the distances I'd have to cover to get to the ranges. Although I do intend on joining another club, I just haven't made my mind up which one. I also intend on travelling further afield and using ranges like Bisley and Sennybridge at some point, but not too regular due to distance.

Back to Kingsbury - We shot firstly at 300, and then 600. I was chuffed to get several V-bulls at both distances. Especially as I rarely shoot at 200, and never over 300....

It was great to meet like minded people, and see some very nice looking rifles. I was treated really well, and made to feel very welcome. I even got the chance to fire off a few rounds with a 1942 .303 Lee Enfield number 1 mk3, (I think that's how it's worded?) and then again with a .308 Steyr SSG. In all honesty, I was a little apprehensive of firing both due to recoil, but they seemed less than I imagined.

It was all arranged by "Jim" from Hartlebury Shooting Supplies, so thanks to Jim!

On another note, it turned out one of my permissions is cleared for .308, and my FEO told me he couldn't see any issues with me putting in for a .260 for both deer and shooting on a range.

The only thing that's left me undecided is what calibre to go for first. I was set for a .260 due to the ballistics of the round. But when I visited Kingsbury, numerous people said I'd be better off going for the .308. This has now put a bit of doubt in my mind as to whether I should still get the .260. I can see the benefits of the 308 - lots of rifles around, lots of reloading gear around, lots of data, the list goes on. I don't know much at all about either round really, I have read what I can on the Accurate Shooter forum about the 308, but from what I can see, the site only lists the .260AI, so not really a "like for like".

On that note, any info or opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Jamie

[gbal]

Jamie,google "260shootout: 260 Rem 6.5x47v6.5Creedmore",which compares the very similar three current top 6.5s. The first two,in that order probably are your choices.....

Many-including many that won't know much (about these three cartridges) will advise the 308-well,read around-the 260 etc outshoot the 308 quite comfortably-I won't buy another 308,and I've had a few.Ballistically it's outclassed,though competitive enough up to 700y-but has heavier recoil.There is no shortage of components for 260/6.5 (same thing as calibre_and 6.5 isn't new-the 6.5x55 swedish is one of the greats,but there are plenty others.)

Only one competition is exclusive to 308 (and 223)-FTR.None of these are great 1000y cartridges,and for that sort of distance there are better-the hotter 6.5s and 7mm-308 just can't compete,though the 260 too is reaching the end of it's comfort envelope.

260 /6.5 rem dominates tactical shooting-the 260 rem is in fact just the 308 necked down,so no problem inactions or factory rifles...don't buy into all this stuff about choice-you are only going to buy one-and there ismore than enough choice anyhow-all the top makes offer 260rem.

(6.5x47 is almost a custom only ).

 

What is not to like-ditto reloading-there is no difference-I've come to see that hundreds of options are actually counter -helpful. But 260rem is well served.Ballistically superior, just as available,less recoil(+shoots better)...no contest,308 loses.

140 Sierra,Hornady,Lapua,Berger;V 140 load to your prefered MV,plenty advice,don't need to fiddle about, job done.

 

But see what others say.Tactical/precision;target;fun plinkers;stalkers-much happiness is a 260rem.

 

gbal

[Brillo]

Jamie,

You should have come over and said "hello". I was on target 11.

[DaveT]

Jamie,google "260shootout: 260 Rem 6.5x47v6.5Creedmore",which compares the very similar three current top 6.5s. The first two,in that order probably are your choices.....

Many-including many that won't know much (about these three cartridges) will advise the 308-well,read around-the 260 etc outshoot the 308 quite comfortably-I won't buy another 308,and I've had a few.Ballistically it's outclassed,though competitive enough up to 700y-but has heavier recoil.There is no shortage of components for 260/6.5 (same thing as calibre_and 6.5 isn't new-the 6.5x55 swedish is one of the greats,but there are plenty others.)

Only one competition is exclusive to 308 (and 223)-FTR.None of these are great 1000y cartridges,and for that sort of distance there are better-the hotter 6.5s and 7mm-308 just can't compete,though the 260 too is reaching the end of it's comfort envelope.

260 /6.5 rem dominates tactical shooting-the 260 rem is in fact just the 308 necked down,so no problem inactions or factory rifles...don't buy into all this stuff about choice-you are only going to buy one-and there ismore than enough choice anyhow-all the top makes offer 260rem.

(6.5x47 is almost a custom only ).

What is not to like-ditto reloading-there is no difference-I've come to see that hundreds of options are actually counter -helpful. But 260rem is well served.Ballistically superior, just as available,less recoil(+shoots better)...no contest,308 loses.

140 Sierra,Hornady,Lapua,Berger;V 140 load to your prefered MV,plenty advice,don't need to fiddle about, job done.

But see what others say.Tactical/precision;target;fun plinkers;stalkers-much happiness is a 260rem.

gbal

Totally agree above comments....I too have a 308 but the 260 comes out for both deer and target every time.....dont buy the 308.

[Brillo]

Jamie,

 

I think you’re in danger of limiting your choices.

 

If you apply for, say a .260, and then a couple of months later change your mind, you will have to apply for another variation. Although not a difficult thing to do it can be unnecessarily irksome.

If you talk to any current long term FAC holder they will recommend that you apply for several different calibres when you submit your variation or renewal. Most will suggest you apply for a 308 (.30 cal is more appropriate), 260 and 6.5 and even more.

The reason for this is down to cost and mitigates you changing your mind later on.

Now that you belong to a well-known club you can easily justify owning all the calibres you have been advised to get. Cost alone may prohibit you getting them all (especially in one hit) but at least you have all the options covered.

Reading between the lines of your posts, and from our recent discussion, it seems unlikely that you will be shooting at distances greater than 600 yards very often mainly because of the distance you have to travel to enjoy 900 and 1000 yard target shooting.

For this reason the good old .308 is still a good choice. Dave T and gbal’s comments about the .260 are sound and logical but a 308 will do everything you want a gun to do.
The reason the Offa’s Dyke guys recommend it is probably down to the fact that so many of them shoot that calibre successfully and it is calibre where you are spoilt for choice with regards to brand. Factory ammunition is readily available and a few (e.g. Remington) can be customised at relatively low cost.

 

If you want more convincing read the following:

 

http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/308win/

[Laurie]

As always, a very interesting subject. And as always .... there are no 'right' answers. One problem is that you won't know what you really like until you've tried it. One would imagine that applies to rifle types / makes / designs more than cartridges and whilst individual satisfaction with the firearm itself is crucial, there is often a surprising depth to the relationships that people work up with the cartridge too. I know people who are 6mm enthusiasts and a 243AI, 6XC, 6-Dasher will always outperform a 6.5, 7 or .30 for them. There are many 308 Win enthusiasts around too - some of whom have never tried anything else so it's not a reasoned decision, but others who strayed from the fold and subsequently returned.

 

So, Brillo's advice to select a small range of possible cartridges and get variations for them is very sensible irrespective of what you buy intially.

 

There are several issues that affect this sort of choice:

 

Cost and availability. New or secondhand? If you're shooting a standard off the shelf light sporter, you're spoilt for choice for some cartridges, won't find any in others. If you want a heavy-barrel factory rifle, the calibre options may be more limited in what the factory chambers for 'varminters', also whether your dream piece is actually stocked by anybody in the UK, how long it'll take to get one from wherever, how many are available on the secondhand market? So, there may be lots of 260 Rem s/h varminters around and hardly any 6.5X55 equivalents or vice versa. There tend to be a lot of 308s available in every category and every price bracket.

 

How quickly is the barrel shot-out? You can soon rack a lot of rounds up on the range, so something with a 1,500-2,000 round barrel accuracy life that lasts a sporting only shooter for a lifetime may not shoot well for that long - especially if it's bought used and you don't know what the real round-count is as opposed to what the vendor says it is. With moderate loads, 308 lasts a long time, 4,000 rounds and up, 260 a lot less, 243 a really lot less and as for 22-250, as Baldie says on another thread somewhere on UKV, he treats every s/h rifle in the calibre offered to him as 'shot-out' as a matter of course.

 

If you get into the custom rifle business, you can have whatever you like spec wise within reason, but you may have to live with restrictions placed on range use by standard specs in factory rifles and calibres. For instance, forget the aforementioned 22-250 at Kingsbury (unlikely you were considering it anyway) as its MVs are way above the MoD range template which were set with 5.56X45mm in mind. More pertinent is .243 with most factory rifles coming with a 1-10 inch rifling twist rate that just handles a 100-105gn sporting SPT type bullet and is marginal with BTSP boat-tails. Since you can't use these for target shooting, you're pretty well restricted to 90gn VLDs at best, and these don't necessarily perform too well in many of these rifles. The ballistically ultimate 6mm bullet for standard factory sixes is the Berger 87gn Hunting VLD developed as a joint sporting and match bullet for standard factory rifles and used as such in the US and the rest of Europe. Because it's a 'Hunting' VLD (thin jacket job), it's sporting shooters with authority only here, and not on ranges.

 

If you get the target shooting bug, which you likely will, will you invest in something a little more specialised even if you don't go down the custom rifle route? Heavy, fast twist barrel 223s? The off the shelf Savage Model 12 Precision / Target model range? What calibres are they available in as they're usually quite restricted? Are there any issues about ammunition, components, dies and their availability / costs etc? So far as rifles go, what scope mounting components are available - you may find that you want / need a 20-MOA taper rail to reach out to the longer distances sooner than you thought and whilst Remington, Savage, modern FN/Winchester, Tikka T3, Howa 1500 as well as all the custom actions have them off the shelf, you can struggle with some makes.

 

So far as actual cartridges go, the pros and cons of those mentioned are:

 

308 Win.

Ubiquitous, huge choice of rifles, ammunition components, dies etc. Very good stuff around with a large price range to cover most needs making it an economical number to buy and handload for unless you really want to get into serious LR competition at a high level. Capable of superb accuracy. Good barrel life unless you go mad with handload pressures.

 

The cons are it's the heaviest recoiler of those mentioned especially in a sporting weight rifle. Unless you acquire a specialist rifle, its legs are a bit short for targets beyond 800 yards, although the 26-inch barrel factory varminting rifles and tactical jobs will get there reliably with appropriate handloads.

 

260 Rem.

Very flexible, a good performer with handloads, common enough to have lots of good components and loading tools. Quality brass and bullets (Lapua / Norma brass available, lots of good bullets. Not so much choice in factory rifles or as many available as 308 on the s/h market. Modest recoil. In a magazine fed factory rifle, the chamber throating and hence COAL you can run may severely limit bullet length (hence weight) options with 140s having to be seated very deeply in the case. However, for mid-range target work, there is a choice of recently developed 123gn match bullets (Scenar, A-Max, Sierra MK) and the outstanding new 120gn Lapua Scenar L that are brilliant to 600 yards and are still just about good to go for 800 yards.

 

Cons are that it is a handloading only number lacking the widely available and (sometimes) affordable match ammo that 308 Win has, the reduced rilfe choice issue, and a significantly shorter barrel life than 308. in a light barrel sporter, it'll quickly get very hot in range use and that doesn't help barrel life either as well as affecting ther sight picture and accuracy.

 

(On the 6.5s, don't overlook 6.5X55mm, a superior cartridge to 260 Rem in many respects especially on the range.)

 

7mm-08 Rem

In between 260 and 308, but much less choice in rifles and some ammunition components. Lapua is introducing brass later this year which will be a big plus (but top quality 308 Win brass can be easily reformed to 7-08 anyway). Like the other two capable of superb accuracy in a good rifle, but factory jobs are throated for 140gn 'hunting' bullets and you want to be able to use the 162gn A-Max, 168gn match bullets and even the odd 175gn match number for serious range use.

 

If you get the target bug, a very good mid-range choice is 6mm BR Norma. Superbly accurate, top quality components and a good choice of everything other than brass where nearly everybody uses Lapua. Very light recoil. Factory (Savage) varmint and target rifles available and a fair number of s/h custom or rebarrelled factory rifles turn up regularly. In a good rig, this (and 6.5X47mm Lapua) can be the most fun you'll have in 300-600 yards, and they'll shoot well to much greater distances too. Handloading only again (except for lottery winners).

 

The other thing to note is you'll see lots of mentions about how flat (or otherwise) shooting, this that or the other cartridge is. This may or may not be important to you if you're intending to have dual-purpose range / field rifles and cartridges, but on the ranges it's immaterial except for some sniper and tactical disciplines. In everything else (and many tactical shoots too) everything is 'known distance', so it's a matter of getting a scope set-up that covers everything you want to do, has clear and accurate scope adjustments, and getting your zeroes for the distances you shoot over. The fact that a 308 load needs say +30-MOA on your 100 yard zero for a distance compared to say 25-MOA for a 260 load is simply unimportant. There may (likely will) be a plus for the 260 in less bullet movement in a wind change, but that's a different thing altogether.

[gazzar15]

I have 2 x 308 rifles and would not be without the calibre. I have owned them in various format for the last 30 years...... However in comparison, the 260 is the new (ish ) kid on the block and not in as wide usage, that said I also own a 260 and have done for about 7 years. It offers excellent accuracy,low recoil, and at 1000 yds requires around 10 minutes of elevation less than a 308 dependant on bullet etc.

I bought a couple of boxes of 107 match kings from Bradders a couple of years back, loaded them up and took the rifle to Warcop (FCSA)was gobsmacked to be hitting tank wheels @1150 yds with monotonous regularity.

In summary get one you will not regret it.

[bradders]

I have 2 x 308 rifles and would not be without the calibre. I have owned them in various format for the last 30 years...... However in comparison, the 260 is the new (ish ) kid on the block and not in as wide usage, that said I also own a 260 and have done for about 7 years. It offers excellent accuracy,low recoil, and at 1000 yds requires around 10 minutes of elevation less than a 308 dependant on bullet etc.

I bought a couple of boxes of 107 match kings from Bradders a couple of years back, loaded them up and took the rifle to Warcop (FCSA)was gobsmacked to be hitting tank wheels @1150 yds with monotonous regularity.

In summary get one you will not regret it.

I built my first .260 in 2003 and it won the PR Nationals 1000yd snaps both that year and the year after.

In the first year I got the wind wrong but the person I lent it to (the wife of a friend) had never shot 1000 before won the match!

Can you believe it?

[@nd]

On a different slant but along the lines of this and “Barndoors” previous posts I am also looking for a new rifle, but am looking towards a multi caliber rifle along the lines of a DTA or an AIMC.

The question is to go for a long/magnum action and have all the options open or a short action and .308/.260 derived calibers.

The DTA has only one action size I know and I would also prefer to buy British.

I know I probably won’t ‘need’ a caliber to shoot 1200yds+ very often but to have the option to be able to, as said before don’t you just hate that itch.

[Jamie]

Thanks for all the imput folks, it's much appreciated.

I forgot to mention, I intend on putting in for both the .260 and the .308. I can't really think of another calibre to add to that. Will the FEO think i'm taking the pi** by requesting more than 2 for the range?

Apologies Mark, (Brillo) I didn't realise you were there, or i'd have said hello. I see what you and Laurie mean about the .308, I think that's the reason's Jim was pushing for me to go that way. The .308 is clearly a very good versatile round. But after reading George's link about the ".260 shoutout" I'm drawn to it, the .260 that is. I've no doubt in time i'm likely to have both.

I'll no doubt be chomping at the bit for the rifle when/if I get my variations (Can you tell i'm a pessimist!....) but i'm hoping that the urge will be watered down by the fact that I can still have a lot of fun with my .223 Rem, while I wait for a new rifle to arrive??

I can't really justify spending a huge amount of money on a bespoke rifle at the moment, he says...

The issue regarding a tapered rail has crossed my mind Laurie. I'm not sure what distance my current scope will be good for on a straight rail. I suppose it depends on a few factors more than just the amount of moa adjustment. The scope i'll be using is a

Sightron S111 6-24x50. I'll have to read the stats... And as for the rifle, it will have to be an off the shelf option. I've kind of got my sights set on a Tikka T3 Varmint, or the Tactical, both in a heavy barrel.

I'll also be reloading, mainly due to just enjoying that hobby in itself.

Apologies if i'm being dim here, but Is it possible to buy an "off the shelf" 6.5x55mm rifle? And I've not really thought of the 6mm BR Norma. Perhaps I should have added that to the list?? Back to Accurate Shooter Forum...

Thanks for the 260 vote Bradders and Gaz. I'm very much warming to the 260!

Cheers folks

Jamie

[gbal]

Just a quick outline answer: plenty decent factory rifles in 6.5x55 Swedish-it has been/is probably the most popular game cartridge in Scandinavia(with US fans,and UK ). Won't be much barrrel twist options,so limited as an off the shelf longer range choice,but a very fine round.

6BR is a lovely light recoil shooting rifle,capable of very fine accuracy-don't be fooled by it's shortish case-it's a short 308,but the kid outshoots it's parent,and,on a low wind day,is a capable 1000y performer.Largely a custom number,though I think Savage do it...not in a budget rifle though.Just about my favourite out to 600,because of it's fine accuracy,and sheer shoot ability-it will shoot further,but mostly there are better tools,if you have them.... Just as a fast twist 223 will go 600+,but that's not it's best role.

Remember too,there are different ideas about eg accuracy (half moa would be rather poor for a 6BR,I've heard 'shooters' saying 308 mil surp was accurate (2-3 moa)-a reflection of the ammo not 308,which isn't a bad cartridge at all,but where it is good-to700,there are nicer shooting cartridges,giving away nothing at all. You can of course,pimp a Remington -whether it's 308 or 260! Something like a Sako/better Tikka won't have so many aftermarkets,but won't need them.I'm restocking a 308 rem,as it's just unpleasant to shoot-but half moa at1000 sometimes,with the light factory stock.No point in being beat up-and it does your precision no good either. That brings the cost up past eg Sako,properly stocked at factory,and in general,a better rifle.No harm in asking for more than one range rifle-or having more than one/two/..... :-)

" beware the mechanic with only one wrench...."

g

[Brillo]

An RFD friend of mine said "A man cannot have too many guns." I'm adding Georges one-liner to my list of shooter sound bites "Beware the mechanic with only one wrench" - love it.

[Jamie]

Sorry for the late reply, there's problems with broadband in our area.

I'd rather buy something fit for purpose, than have to "pimp" a rifle I've only just bought.

Am I right in thinking the .260 can stabilise bullets up to a maximum of 140 grains?

Also, what sort of twist rates does the .260 come in. It doesn't seem to show any on the GMK site?

Jamie