Sharps 45/70

[Bob Valdez]

Here is something different the rifle of its day a Sharps in 45/70. This is the Quigley model with a 34" barrel and at 13lbs you dont want to be carrying it around. Shoots a 405 grn bullet with 50gns Varget.

[JohnGalway]

That's a fantastic looking rifle Bob, well wear

[Bob Valdez]

Thanks JG, I also have a 30"brass scope for it but havent tried it. Here is a link to Billy Dixons famous shot taken with a sole type aperture sight the same as is on my sharps.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Battle_of_Adobe_Walls

[Andrew]

Thanks JG, I also have a 30"brass scope for it but havent tried it. Here is a link to Billy Dixons famous shot taken with a sole type aperture sight the same as is on my sharps.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Battle_of_Adobe_Walls

 

I have shot Sharps. I currently own a pair of them in 54 that utilize paper cartridges. Get out for some long range work and report back as to whether or not you then think the Dixon shot account is reliable. ~Andrew

[Zaitsev]

Nice rifle Bob. Will have to have a blast with one of those at some point (when I've got something padding my shoulder methinks).

Anyhow, didn't someone successfully recreate Billy Dixons shot in modern times? The old lemons a bit clouded but I seem to remember a TV program doing it???

 

You'd have a lot of fun trying anyway.

 

Boooooooom---zeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesplattt!!!!!

 

(there may not be enough 'e's for the Billy Dixon shot though..

 

Regards

 

G

[Bob Valdez]

Yep here is the link.

 

http://www.levergun.com/articles/bdixon.htm

[Bob Valdez]

Hi Andrew, maybe maybe not but i choose to think it was pretty close to the distance. I have read many accounts . As to trying it out and reporting back i am not nor never will be Billy Dixon. Every so often someone like Dixon comes along and gets lucky. I have seen Bob Munden shoot half dollars out of the air with a 45 long colt single action and read well documented accounts of Herb Parsons shooting through a washer for Jimmy Stewart in Winchester 73 so i belive it was possible. Bob Knapp has done this also for Bennelli. But even Billy Dixon always said it was a lucky shot

[foxing2night]

Now that i what i call a rifle

 

F2n

[Andrew]

Considering how high his mid range trajectory would be, and a 13+ second time of flight, on a moving target, I am more inclined to believe that the fellow was wounded in the fight and fell off his mount at an advantageous moment! There is yet another, farther shot claimed by the Sharps. It reportedly happened in Montana and was just over 1700 yards on, again, a raiding indian on horseback. I would have liked to seen either of those shots first hand!

 

As I said, I have owned several sharps but currently shoot the paper cartridge guns as were used in the early buffalo trade and the US Civil War. I like this techincal cog between muzzleloader and breechloader; it's odd-ball enough to keep my interest up. My paper ctg guns are quite accurate, too boot, especially the 1859 Business rifle.

 

You have a particularly nice rifle and I'm sure it will shoot really well. They are really popular here in Montana. I hope you post some groups. Which bullet are you using?~Andrew

[Bob Valdez]

I shoot at the moment 405gn self moulded lead bullets powdered by 50gn Varget in a Starline case with Federal primers. The bullets are made from wheel weights in a Lee double cavity mould .457-405 f. I havent been able to try much else being restricted in the type of powder available here.

I guess being from Montana most of the rifles will be made in Big Timber if one can wait that long.

Bob

 

Here is a couple of groups at 100m

[Andrew]

I wouldn't switch a thing! That sumbich shoots!! Nice work! Yeah, the C.Sharps are nice but my current guns are Pedersoli as CS black powder guns were a special order at the time. I have no complaints.

 

I am glad you're casting your own. I shoot many (many, many) home cast bullets and shoot bullets from 190 grains (gallery load) to 560 grains in my 45-70's. If you ever get a chance to shoot the Lyman 457-121 "Gould" hollow point give it a try. It is a superbly accurate bullet out to 300 yards. I have killed several deer with it and the results were impressive.

 

Have fun with that Sharps. I'll look for you at the 800 yard "Quigley Shoot" here in Montana some year!~Andrew

[baldie]

We have a Shiloh sharps sat on the wall here in 45-100. It was bought new, 12 years ago, and the guy never fired it. A mate of mine bought it, had it a month , and never fired it. I keep looking at the bas***d and swear its calling to me......

Its nitro proofed but really wants running on black powder...what it was designed for. A truly beautiful gun.

[varminter.223]

Bob,

 

Come over to the Dark Side - We have cookies!

[Vermincinerator]

Hi Andrew, Bob

Here is an piece form the book "Getting a Stand" by Miles Gilbert, that you might find interesting.

This is a passage from the "Letter of J.Wright Mooar to J.Evets Haley, November 1927, courtesey of the Panhandle-Plains Museum, Canyon, Texas that intrigued me and put doubts into my head over the validity of Dixons shot.

 

"Billy Dixon had a bullet hole through the calf of his leg, in his book it was claimed that he got this at Buffalo Wallow but i dressed that wound for him. We were camped at a big tree off from Adobe Walls and i was there by myself. I looked up and saw him coming into the camp. i picked my rifle and slipped a cartridge into it. He unloaded his gun walked over and set it against the wagon. he wanted to know if i was the only one there and if i would do a fovour for him. he rolled up his trouser leg and showed me the bullet hole through his calf. We always kept a sort of first aid outfit so i washed the wound with some Castille soap put some carbolic salve on it, bandaged it with linen and sewed the bandage on. "I dont care for anyone to know how i got that, he got up and walked off with out flinching or limping. I never knew how he was shot and i never told this untill he was dead but he was not the man who killed the indian on the hill (the 1538yd shot from Adobe walls) and the ridge pole did not crack that night like he claimed in his book, some time i am going to tell about that"

 

Make what you want of this guys but for me it puts a whole different twist on the claims of this legendary shot, after all it is Billy Dixon himself in his own book who claims validity to this shot.

 

Ian.

[Andrew]

Hi Andrew, Bob

Here is an piece form the book "Getting a Stand" by Miles Gilbert, that you might find interesting.

This is a passage from the "Letter of J.Wright Mooar to J.Evets Haley, November 1927, courtesey of the Panhandle-Plains Museum, Canyon, Texas that intrigued me and put doubts into my head over the validity of Dixons shot.

 

"Billy Dixon had a bullet hole through the calf of his leg, in his book it was claimed that he got this at Buffalo Wallow but i dressed that wound for him. We were camped at a big tree off from Adobe Walls and i was there by myself. I looked up and saw him coming into the camp. i picked my rifle and slipped a cartridge into it. He unloaded his gun walked over and set it against the wagon. he wanted to know if i was the only one there and if i would do a fovour for him. he rolled up his trouser leg and showed me the bullet hole through his calf. We always kept a sort of first aid outfit so i washed the wound with some Castille soap put some carbolic salve on it, bandaged it with linen and sewed the bandage on. "I dont care for anyone to know how i got that, he got up and walked off with out flinching or limping. I never knew how he was shot and i never told this untill he was dead but he was not the man who killed the indian on the hill (the 1538yd shot from Adobe walls) and the ridge pole did not crack that night like he claimed in his book, some time i am going to tell about that"

 

Make what you want of this guys but for me it puts a whole different twist on the claims of this legendary shot, after all it is Billy Dixon himself in his own book who claims validity to this shot.

 

Ian.

Ian:

Interesting. Sometimes the legend is larger than the man.

 

The midrange trajectory of a 1000 yard shot with a 45-70 is 90 feet, give or take. At 1500 yards?? I've forgotten what we calculated. The time of flight to 1500 yards was, I believe, over 13 seconds. Time yourself. See how far you can walk in 13 seconds. It all makes for a highly improbable shot.

 

Here in Montana there are a slew of Sharps shooters who ball their fists and roar when you question the Dixon shot but none of them -even those who have been dinking around with Sharps rifles for years- can come close to duplicating the shot without needing all day to get in (as we say) the ball park.

 

I have always heard the popular myth that these buffalo hunters had to be exquisite shots but that isn't true. They just had to be busy. The great marksman Milton Farrow found them to be rather poor shots when he sought them out at the end of the 19th century. Again, the legend out stripped the truth.

 

I love the Sharps rifles but in truth, there is nothing inherently accurate about them. It's up to the guy in charge of the loading chain! ~Andrew

 

Baldie: Go get that thing back! ~A