electronic scales ,what do you use ?

[Barrelsniffer]

I have a set of electronic scales,but looking to upgrade.so what do you guys use and how do you find them ? also any one use the Lyman 1200DPS Precision Electronic Powder Scales/Dispenser ??

whats your thoughts on them.

 

Mick

[nemasis243]

Mick I had a Lyman 1200 from the States ,I had problem after problem with it,

I wanst that accurate for me , It would vari up to .3grns if I was doing a 43grn load.

Maybe I had a crap one ,but know I weigh each load from my benchrest thrower and just trickle up .

its a little longer but I enjoy it.

have a good one mate cheers Andy

[Ronin]

I have a lyman 1200 that I've upgraded to faster speed witha conversion from Hannams. It's ok for throwing light charges and then I transfer the charge to an Acculab scale and trickle up to weight . The acculab weighs to two decimal places and is lovely!

[Laurie]

I've become very leary of using electronic scales because of zero drift, and the various things that can affect their accuracy. One thing to note is their EXTREME sensitivity to draughts and temperature changes - if you can feel a draught on you at all, even the teesiest weensiest amount, then the scales are likely affected.

 

Re-zero every 25 rounds, and frankly I wouldn't trust any electric scale now for powder weighing without using check-weights and rechecking the scale accuracy during the weighing session as well as at the beginning. As for using them for loading on the range as more and more people are doing - forget it! I think it's potentially dangerous unless you have the scales inside a draught-proof box, and even then can you guarantee no temperature changes taking place?

 

There are really accurate scales around like the Acculabs, not the budget ones sold on a lot of website at what look like bargain prices, but the ones that read to two decimal places. Note the 'lab' bit of the name though - laboratory scales are used under far more controlled conditions than the average home and are left switched on permanently (mains power) usually, so there is no issue over their cooling then having to be warmed up again.

 

Re some of thes issues, have a look at

 

Accurate Shooter Blog

 

and scroll back to or do a search for:

 

September 29th 2009 Daily Bulletin; topic: "Shot Order and Calibration When Using Electronic Scales"

 

written by a professional laboratory user of electronic scales about their limitations and ensuring accuracy.

 

Re the 1200DPS, I have the original (slow) model and the upgrade kit (to speed up powder dispensing) that I've yet to fit. I've found mine inordinately sensitive to the draught / temperature issue. I bought it during a summer heatwave with lovely 'still' evenings, but found the (electronic) scales at the heart of the machine would start to 'go mad' with all sorts of readings off the zero flicking up as it tried to re-zero then hold it there, then going into a fail mode. There is a hinged perspex cover for the scale part and closing that helped but didn't cure the problem.

 

I was all set to return it to Hannams as faulty, then I felt the slightest movement of cooler air on my skin and went around shutting every door and window in sight in the house (very popular with the other half !!) That cured it.

 

It requires you to go through a 30-minute warm-up on plugging in before use - you can short-circuit that, but it might affect reliability / accuracy.

 

As noted, the Mk 1 version is slow - 20-40 seconds per charge dispensed depending on weight. Many people use them alongside their press seating the bullet in one charged case while the dispenser is pouring the charge into the scale pan for the next. I'd worry about vibrations doing that if they're situated close to each other - vibrations are also death to accuracy on these things!

 

Having sorted all the problems out, charge consistency is very good particularly if you re-zero / recalibrate regulalrly.

 

When you finsih the session or want to change powder, emptying it is fairly involved involving (1) use of a retractable drain chute in the main body to get 95% of the powder out, followed by (2) removal of the powder collection box from the machine body to empty it completely followed by sweeping any remaining grains out of the main box with a small brush. The instructions look horrendous first time round, but it's fairly straightforward, if not particularly quick. What you CANNOT do is to turn the machine upside down as you would in a good old-fashioned mechanical measure!

 

So, fine is you're loading lots of cartridges with one powder in a session, especially with the Mk2 faster model or the Mk 1 with £25 upgrade. Changing the charge weight on any make or model of electronic dispensing machine is dead easy of course - just punch the new weight in on the keypad.

 

Reviews generally rate the RCBS ChargeMaster higher, but I think it's a lot more expensive.

 

Me? I only use the DPS1200 occasionally - Harrell's BR measure plus RCBS 10-10 bean scales suit me much better.

 

Laurie

[Ronin]

Like Laurie, I am a bit "fastidious" when reloading

 

 

I certainly wouldn't consider using any scale on the range, beam, electronic or otherwise..

 

The Lyman is used for times when I am "bulk" reloading - such as pre - Class comps when I have a whole load (100+) of cases to do.

 

I do not trust it - as ive said, to simply throw total charge and straight to case.

 

I don't trust my Harrell for this either for that matter.

 

 

I always, always trickle up to charge weight.

 

I started in beam balance scales - RCBS 5-0-5 and a couple of years ago invested in the Acculab, which as Laurie points out are laboritory quality / accuracy scales.

 

These are used in my re-loading room, central heating, no drafts and closed door when I am loading.

 

I re-zero every 30 rounds, but this isn't really necessary with the scale.

 

The Acculab is very good quality, but spendy, however if youre serious about re-loading and want the least deviation I cannot recommend one highly enough;

 

http://www.djblabcare.co.uk/djb/product/20...B_VICON_VIC_123

 

 

 

The only downside to using such things - along with "anal" case prep is you run out of excuses when you mess up in a comp - it really is YOUR fault!!!!

[Barrelsniffer]

Thanks for all your input guys,nuch appreciated.as laurie said,i have 2 sets but now they are off zero,and when calibrated still slightly off and that can mean a plus or minus in reloading.so at mo have also gone back to my 505 balance scales.

As for the acculab scales ronin i was also looking at them.the one you sent in the link is that the model you have ? may invest in future.

 

Again many thanks lads

 

Mick

[Ronin]

Yes mate

 

 

same model.

[Laurie]

Ronin

The Acculab is very good quality, but spendy, however if youre serious about re-loading and want the least deviation I cannot recommend one highly enough;

 

http://www.djblabcare.co.uk/djb/product/20...B_VICON_VIC_123

 

Hi Andy,

 

great spec - was really impressed. I thought let's consider one until I reached the £280price bit.

 

I'll stick with the RCBS 10-10 beam scales and ancient plastic C-H trickler thanks!

 

Laurie

[menial 1]

For all the various negative results that people have with electronic scales, I've stuck with my Redding No.2 balance, the lowest ES I've had using these carefully has been 7fps with the 6BR.

I'm afraid it would always be in my head that perhaps they weren't reading correctly, and when bulk loading you could end up with a batch of possibly dangerous ammunition.

I think I'll give them a miss and spend the money on powder and bullets.

Pete.

[eldon]

I can only fully agree with Laurie on the points he made.

 

I have a set of electronic lab scales at work that measure milligrams to the 100 ths (0.01 mg or 0.00001 g) and the two main points I have found for cocking up results is draughts and vibration. The scale has a full glass case and is very accurate if you shut the doors but even leaning on the table can be seen. Warm up time needed check weights or on-board motorised weight required the beam scale seem's so much better.

 

I do not like electronic gadgets because of the zero drift which can usually be minimised by throwing lots of money at it. So a cheap option is definetly not good for me. A friend bought 2 cheap scales from America and he is happy with his one but against my RCBS beam scales I didn't trust mine and eventually throw them away(he doesn't have anything to compare to so he is happy ).

 

Now if somebody has a powder measure for sale please pm me as I am sticking with the beam scales idea.

 

As always use what you feel happy with and you will do better with the confidence boost.

[Redfox]

I have the Lyman Dps 1200 and the speed up kit, It works fine if you let it stabilise first ( which is a feature of all proper electronic measuring kit) you should be working in a reasonably stable temperature snd without draughts whatever scales you are using ( the better lab grade scales have a glass case round the pan for just this reason and what is known as a "crystal oven" to ensure stability of measurement. I also have a couple of laboratory scales which cost over £1500 each when new and can check such as the lyman for drift anyway, it is well within spec.

In reality in the normal calibres such as 6mm and 243win and up, up to 0.5 of a grain will have no significant effect on accuracy anyway, so chasing tenths and hundredths of a grain is completely pointless and a waste of money, In the smaller cases like 17Rem and hornet, or 17fireball, the difference is more noticeable because of the reduced case capacity, but 2 tenths either way is good enough even with these.

I have various beam scales too inc the 10-10 and 5-0-5 and they work very well for what they cost, speed doesnt really matter anyway for the numbers we normally reload, I can make 20 or 30 rounds in no time, which is fine, As with anything where mistakes can be costly, racing through your reloads is not recommended anyway, you need time to think what your doing.

The RCBS chargemaster is very expensive for what it is and does, I gave up after 3 had gone wrong and was waiting ever longer for replacements ( part of the trouble is they dont actually make it) whereas the Lyman worked out of the box and has done so for the last 4 yrs. But really I can do as well with the beam scales, its just a nice toy.

Redfox

[neil]

hi

i have been thinking about getting the dps1200

neil

[Ballistic Hamster]

This is what i use, have been for a few years always good.

 

MXX-123 Delivers Single-Kernel Accuracy for $275.00

The Denver Instrument MXX-123 scale is rated to .02 grains (two-hundreths of a grain). A single kernel of Varget powder weighs just about .02 grains. Until recently, to measure powder with this degree of accuracy, you had to buy a milligram-rated analytical balance that could cost $1000 or more. We were excited to learn about Denver Instrument's new scale, particularly since it costs just $275.00 plus shipping. We wondered, however, with such a low price, could the MXX-123 match the performance of much more expensive scales, delivering the precision reloader effective single-kernel accuracy? Would sensitivity to drafts or "drifting zeros" prove to be problems in actual use?

[Foxshooter]

I use a chargemaster Combo. I used to check it with my RCBS 10-10s but in the end I gave up.

 

Super accurate 'lab' digital scales are great in the lab and have their place. I used to work extensively with Sartorius and Ohaus 3,4 and 5 decimal place balances that cost a shed load but you reach a point where your workstation begins to affect your balance.

 

If you want to build a concrete plinth topped with slate or glass to set your balance on thats great but it becomes self defeating unless its your occupation/business.

 

Any scale that claims .02gr (cant convert that to grams in my head) and only costs £200 is a hard one to believe in my opinion. Its not so much about accuracy as reproducibility

 

Mark

[eldon]

Good points that foxshooter made and like most things to do with reloading we can all get quite anal, the point is what is an acceptable level.

 

Deciding where the level is acceptable to you I suppose is the key. For me a balance beam is fine.

 

I suppose a reasonable analogy would be " a sniper has to get reasonable results from unreasonable positions and conditions whereas a marksman or target shooter aims for/ desires a dead on result in a perfect set up" , pick your own level.

 

As was said, repeatability at that level of accuracy for that price sounds fantastic .

[Ronin]

Accept being anal;

 

 

Pleased I didnt pay full price for the Acculab

[grahamfarmer]

being toying with idea of upgradeing to a lyman or chargemaster but from reading the thread i may not be gaining much in accuracy of weighting especial as live in a drafty farmhouse .

 

presently using a rcbs powder thrower and set to desired weight then throw into pan and weight each charge trickling up if needed or dumping if heavy . have found using varget that as long as you keep your throwing action the same they are repetively accurate . the bigest pain is setting it to start so a question would be are the micrometer setting barrels easier to set up once recorded where you are .

 

graham.

[Pazuzu]

I have a RCBS Chargemaster Combo and to be honest I can't imagine reloading without it. A friend used to borrow it when he was making up a big batch and has since bought one of his own as well.

 

As has been said, watch for drafts and recalibrate often and you should be fine.

 

Cheers,

 

Phil

[lancslad]

See......told you that sitting there in your shed with the mini heater blowin would effect it..............

[Alycidon]

I have read other good reports on the RCBS Chargemaster as well. I use a standard RCBS electronic scale, maybe 7 years old now and throw lightish and trickle up. I am sure that there are better things about such as Chargemaster, Acculab etc but I am not a competition shooter and dont need that Nth degree.

 

While we debate this it is interesting that the US BR boys drop charges straight into the case, they dont have time between details to weigh. They shoot pretty tight groups but I do wonder if the top 2 or 3 do that, somehow I doubt it.

 

A

[MJR]

I saw a dvd of David Tubb reloading once on a very fancy set up. Anyone know what it was? I use Hornady electronic scales and have had no problems with it. Having said that I've just chrony'd my .243 loads and found a velocity spread of over 60fps so maybe I need to look at what i'm doing? I throw an under weight charge then trickle up to it and re zero every 25/30 loads.