7.62 Enfield Envoy

[DeLaRue]

Morning All.....

Pending a variation I have just agreed to buy a 7.62 Lee Enfield Envoy for target shooting at/out to 1000yds. It has it's original heavy hammer forged barrel but I cannot find anywhere online that gives the twist rate, as I don't actually have the rifle yet is there anyone out there who can oblige? Once I have the rifle I will do some load development for it but in the meantime if there are any enthusiasts who reload for one of these rifles I would be interested on your thoughts as to what bullet weight, powders & loads you use.

Any info would be of interest!

Thank you.

[jcampbellsmith]

I think you need to ask the vendor to measure the twist of your specific rifle with a cleaning rod. How else can you be sure of the twist given the age of this rifle?

Regards 

JCS 

[Triffid]

A friend was using his Envoy at Bisley last weekend. With iron sights and at 300X he was comfortably holding the bull, using the NRA GGG 155gn ammo. 

Triffid

[DeLaRue]

On 4/13/2022 at 12:01 PM, jcampbellsmith said:

I think you need to ask the vendor to measure the twist of your specific rifle with a cleaning rod. How else can you be sure of the twist given the age of this rifle?

Regards 

JCS 

Thank you....I will do it myself when I eventually get the rifle but as it has it's original heavy hammer forged barrel I though I'd ask......👍

[DeLaRue]

On 4/13/2022 at 12:38 PM, Triffid said:

A friend was using his Envoy at Bisley last weekend. With iron sights and at 300X he was comfortably holding the bull, using the NRA GGG 155gn ammo. 

Triffid

Thank you!

[dodgyrog]

I believe the London Armoury bought the PH tooling - you might have luck asking them.

[Catch-22]

I think Armalon also made replacement barrels that matched the originals. Might be worth contacting them to ask for the spec sheet.

[DeLaRue]

Thank you to all, your replies are much appreciated!

👍

[Laurie]

AFAIK all of the original Enfield Lock heavy barrels for No.4 conversions were 1 in 12 twist rate, bar a specially commissioned lot for Norman Clark that used the then common 14 twist rate optimised for 144-146gn bulleted 7.62 ammunition.

12 twist handles most 308 bullets well unless you fancy loading the latest generation of 200gn match bullets like the Berger 200.20X and the longer heavier VLD designs of 190gn or so. It'll shoot well with the 185gn Berger LRBT Juggernaut should you be so lucky as to find any for sale - a waste of money IMO though for a rifle like this, even though the 'Jugg' is now recommended for 11 twist for optimal ballistics.

What you have to watch much more with original Enfield barrels is that they were deliberately manufactured 'tight' to suit the very undersize bullets used in military 7.62 ball ammo in the pre 155 RG and Sierra MK days, as little as 0.3073" reportedly in some lots, although NATO specification is 0.3077" IIRC. This means that when loaded with a 'proper' 30-calibre bullet (ie 0.3080" nominally, but SMKs for example are usually a tad fatter at 0.3082-83") they generate much higher pressures than in a 'proper' SAAMI spec barrel (0.300" bore / 0.3080" groove diameters). This coupled to the relatively weak L-E No.4 action is why the NRA advised that its commercially purchased TR ammunition loaded with the original 155gn Sierra MK shouldn't be fired in these rifles.

[DeLaRue]

Good morning Laurie.....many thanks for your observations, it's much appreciated!

[Strangely Brown]

On 4/17/2022 at 10:08 PM, Laurie said:

This coupled to the relatively weak L-E No.4 action is why the NRA advised that its commercially purchased TR ammunition loaded with the original 155gn Sierra MK shouldn't be fired in these rifles.

Laurie from memory the NRA only advised getting the rifle reproofed to 20T if the firer intended to use the current 155gr ammunition. The "advice" from the NRA at the time caused rather a lot of controversy and it was quietly withdrawn after some NRA ,members wanted to see some scientific evidence to back the statement up.

At the time it was decided by LERA that all club guns would only use the 144/147 gr options; as I was TR Captain for LERA then I started doing some load development with the SMK 150gr which proved successful in both my L39 and Whitaker Special...only to find out later that it was the load of choice back in the day for Enfield's and if I had asked one of the "old hands" at Bisley I would have saved myself some work!  

[Laurie]

Thanks Mick for the information.

I can remember loading vast numbers of Norma 146gn (??) FMJBTs and the occasional 150gn SMK in 308 for an Enfield No.4 TR rifle some 30 odd years ago. It was an ex club rifle, one of several the club had owned in 303 SR form which had then been converted to 7.62 by Fultons c.1968 using the Enfield kit.

[GrahamK998]

Anyone got any opinions on the 146gr MEN factory rounds for use in an Envoy?  They appear to fine in mine (subject to the ability behind the butt...).